Copyright QUESTION: need answer ;)

[Omero]

I modified the copyright notice in the footer on my board a bit... i heavily modified my board (39 hacks plugged in so far + personal work ) and wanted to show users that, moreover i didn't want to show the version in the footer, to avoid possible problems with hackers checking the version to see if a security issue is still present or not.

So i put in the footer:

vBulletiNgX 1.0 © Jelsoft
All your base are belong to us!

(with active links to BOTH vbulletin AND jelsoft websites).

My site is called NgX, that's why I called my board that way... is this ok or it is a violation of copyright rules? I hope it isn't and i can leave it that way

[Omero]

Check out my forum at

http://forum.ngx.sm/index.php

if you wanna see it "live"

[George L]

removing version number is okay but everything else has to remain unaltered

[Omero]

K ill switch back

[George L]

Originally posted by Omero
K ill switch back

thanks

[Omero]

Thanks to you for your very kkkkkkwik answer

[slinky]

Just so that you know, Jelsoft considers the "Powered by" text to be part of the copyright notice that must be displayed in the $160 license option. Their intention is that it must appear exactly as is and unedited, unless you have obtained their prior permission. I was just sent a notice about my site, very much to my surprise, which left out the "powered by" and version number.

[tubedogg]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Omero, but I have been told in the past that what you have as your copyright is not sufficient.

The absolute minimum as I have been told is

vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2002 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited

which is not what "slinky" had on his site.

[slinky]

Originally posted by tubedogg
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Omero, but I have been told in the past that what you have as your copyright is not sufficient. The absolute minimum as I have been told is
which is not what "slinky" had on his site.

Well then, let's talk about splitting hairs and what "slinky" has on his site that is still in violation of the license so everyone understands the rules of the $160 license. I'm confused since what you told me in email (and state in the thread below) is very different than what you state here:

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=274405#post274405

Which is it? The credit above or does it also have to have the "Powered by" statement and vBulletin version number? Does it have to appear alone on its own line? It seems that way.

My sin was in giving Jelsoft the copyright notice that appears on the second line and next to VB Portal, although separated. But rather than provide me with a note with about a request to make changes to my accreditation, I got a rude "violation notice" and the information about all appearing "as is" as per the other thread. I couldn't resolve it either, much to my surprise. Protocol is as much a part of doing business as the product.

[Chris Schreiber]

The "powered by" and the version numbers can be removed, but the product name (vBulletin), company name (Jelsoft Enterprises Limited), and copyright 2000-2002 must remain intact.

So the minimum requirement is having "vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2002 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited" visible.

[tubedogg]

Originally posted by slinky
But rather than provide me with a note with about a request to make changes to my accreditation, I got a rude "violation notice" and the information about all appearing "as is" as per the other thread. I couldn't resolve it either, much to my surprise.

I'm sorry you didn't like the notice but it was not rude. It was merely asking you to make the change to your site and putting you on notice that your license could be revoked in the future if you did not rectify what I saw as a violation of the license - it was not a "C&D unless these demands are met".

You seem to be claiming that you had what Chris just posted (which is identical to what I posted above), when in fact what you had was
Portions © vbPortal 3.0b and Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
which is nowhere close to what is the absolute minimum. I see you have now changed it to what Chris says must be in place, but that only happened very recently and did not happen over the course of our email correspondence, which is why I repeatedly said what you had was not enough.

[Fusion]

Originally posted by Chris Schreiber
The "powered by" and the version numbers can be removed, but the product name (vBulletin), company name (Jelsoft Enterprises Limited), and copyright 2000-2002 must remain intact.

So the minimum requirement is having "vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2002 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited" visible.

Chris, please read this thread then, and make sure it's corrected, lest you be violating your own copyright.
(Just kidding, but since we're already on the subject, let's make an effort to get it right.)

[slinky]

First, thank you for clearing this up Chris. It seems that there are different misconceptions flying around as to what is proper notice, and I understand how this can be confusing to all involved, especially the moderators. I really **don't** want to belabor this issue. Tube, if you feel a need to give partial details for whatever reason, I'll be glad to post some crystal clear replies I received, undedited, from our lengthy discussion. I don't think this is necessary.

I have always agreed to have my credits read as follows, as stated in the other thread and in email, which was not sufficient. And it even appears on non-forum pages as well so you got credits there as well.

vbPortal 3.0b © 2001-2 by sforums and VBulletin © 2000-2 by Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (hyperlink to both sites)

Secondly, I understand you weren't trying to be "rude" with the violation notice. But think about what it means when you send a "standard violation notice" when sites are personally reviewed, especially if it is obvious that the site owner is not trying to evade copyright issues. If this doesn't feel like a C&D, then again, we really do see things differently:

"We cannot accept your recent submission to the vBulletin Links Directory because you have removed the copyright that must remain in your footer template. By removing it you are violating the license and risking having your license revoked without refund."

[tubedogg]

Originally posted by slinky
I have always agreed to have my credits read as follows, as stated in the other thread and in email, which was not sufficient.

vbPortal 3.0b © 2001-2 by sforums and VBulletin © 2000-2 by Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (hyperlink to both sites)

You did not have that at any time during our discussion. The copyright notice changed several times during it but I am absolutely positive you did not have that or I would not have continued telling you to change it.

If this doesn't feel like a C&D, then again, we really do see things differently:

"We cannot accept your recent submission to the vBulletin Links Directory because you have removed the copyright that must remain in your footer template. By removing it you are violating the license and risking having your license revoked without refund."

To me a C&D is "You have 2 days to make the changes or remove vBulletin from your site", whereas the standard notice I have been using is putting the recipient on notice that in the future, if the recipient doesn't rectify the problem, they could have their license revoked, but there is no "desist" part to my message.

[slinky]

Tube, let's not throw in a red herring about minor changes I made that were virtually all the way there (just like Chris' glitch, hilariously pointed out by Fusion). Let's talk about your continued insistence that I use the entire 2 lines of the notice, AS IS, including the "Powered by" part. Why don't you read:

1) The part of our private conversation where you tell me "Even if the "Powered by vBulletin" line requirement were to be deemed unenforcable.."

2) Our public conversation where you explain that the "Powered By" language is required since "The license clearly states that the notice in the design templates must remain unchanged. The templates very clearly indicate what is part of the copyright." http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showt...5&pagenumber=3

3) Or perhaps the standard "non C&D notice" given to you by the business department and not your fault which started this mess and states:

"Your footer template must contain the following:

Powered by vBulletin $templateversion
Copyright © 2000-2002 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

You may resubmit your site once the above noted correction is made."

Your point about enforcing the "Powered by" has been made so very clear. As I said, perhaps this error was caused by confusion that should have been made clear to all of us , from the beginning, directly from the top. Understand?

BTW, a C&D letter can also state that "we have the right to revoke your license at any time if you don't make corrections." You can say that I've seen a few of them and most of the time I wasn't the recipient. Can we cool this?

Originally posted by tubedogg
You did not have that at any time during our discussion. The copyright notice changed several times during it but I am absolutely positive you did not have that or I would not have continued telling you to change it.

To me a C&D is "You have 2 days to make the changes or remove vBulletin from your site", whereas the standard notice I have been using is putting the recipient on notice that in the future, if the recipient doesn't rectify the problem, they could have their license revoked, but there is no "desist" part to my message.