I already have a lifetime lisence...but need to renew...

[Nick]

Again you're failing to see the point;

Ray said nothing more than 'renew' - Nothing more. Sure, he'd like us to renew. It means more money for him, almost certain more guaranteed income when they decide to charge us again for VB4/5/6 whatever. But, If Ray said 'Nick, I would throw myself off a cliff' would you do it? Hell no.

You'd want to know WHY you were throwing yourself off a cliff. You'd want answers, you'd want clarifaction, information, trust and faith in that person and the company he's representing.

All I've seen over the last few months is a lot of top, well respected Dev's leaving (jumping ship possibly...what do they know that we dont?!) and a whole LACK of information.

OBVIOUSLY Ray's going to say ''renew'', but he should also back that up with some information that is half relevant. He's not exactly going to say ''please don't give us money''.

Surely you don't have blind faith with this shambles of a company Nick? You must have half a braincell still ticking there?

There is a reason to renew, and he did tell us why.

Renew your licenses and keep them active. Why? Because your upgrade fee to vB 4 will be discounted.

Isn't that enough information to convince you to keep your license active? For those of us who intend to upgrade to vB 4 (no matter what, really), it's good to have this bit of information rather than letting my licenses slip and just wait for an announcement.

Additionally, people are complaining that IB isn't divulging any information or making any announcements -- which is true, and these are understandable concerns. But, like in this case, when some information is given, people take it for granted and find reasons to jump on it and turn it into a fighting point. Shouldn't you be appreciative that Ray even shared that bit of information?
His recommendation has helped many people I'm sure, to make a decision as to whether or not they should renew their licenses that expire soon.

IB may be very quiet and not willing to announce everything just yet but one thing they haven't done is lie, so don't accuse them (or Ray) of doing so. Do you honestly think Ray would tell us we will get a discount if he knows we actually won't?

Oh and Nick, I know I have got you on my ignore list but look if you have got issues then maybe instead of getting stuck into people on here [...]

I'm not getting stuck on anybody, but thanks anyways.

you should ask the guys via a support ticket to get the answers that you want.

Ask "the guys" what? I'm not the one with any questions. If you are going to respond to a thread, please know what the hell you are talking about.

[El Burro]

There is a reason to renew, and he did tell us why.

Renew your licenses and keep them active. Why? Because your upgrade fee to vB 4 will be discounted.

I have an active license why do I have to pay an upgrade fee to get vB4?

My understanding when I paid, firstly for my owned license and then all subsequent renewals was that by doing this I was entitled to the latest version of vBulletin.

Can someone from IB confirm that I will be able to upgrade to vB4 as I have an active license.

[sportsfi]

^ taken from license agreement. Sorry, but would someone care to point out where it says 'you indefinately recieve free updates if you renew your license for another year'? I've only been able to find that on the order page, however I would assume the quoted statement, which each vB customer agreed to, would also cover this area.

Not trying to upset the apple cart, and I'm not on IB's side, so please correct me if I am wrong.

Sorry Scoutie44 you are not allowed to quote that - that is banned from these types of threads people on here are all negative and your not allowed to say anything that does not agree with the IB Bashing that is around the place - look what has happened to Nick when he suggests for people to renew.

We all have to be little sheep on here and follow what MRMTGB or whoever the hell he is says - Baah baah!

[Blackbook]

There is a reason to renew, and he did tell us why.

Renew your licenses and keep them active. Why? Because your upgrade fee to vB 4 will be discounted.

IB may be very quiet and not willing to announce everything just yet but one thing they haven't done is lie, so don't accuse them (or Ray) of doing so.

IF I pay $60 to renew, and they charge me 1 cent for vb4, then yes....they have lied..and broken the agreement of me putting down $60 in the first place. So yeah...they may not have 'lied' yet (as they've not bloody said anything...its impossible to lie when you keep your lips shut!).

[sportsfi]

IF I pay $60 to renew, and they charge me 1 cent for vb4, then yes....they have lied..and broken the agreement of me putting down $60 in the first place. So yeah...they may not have 'lied' yet (as they've not bloody said anything...its impossible to lie when you keep your lips shut!).

I am sorry but you and everyone else is wrong - this is what it clearly states on the license agreements for all products:

Jelsoft reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

Which means they can change the terms to saying pre vb4.0 only

[Blackbook]

I am sorry but you and everyone else is wrong - this is what it clearly states on the license agreements for all products:

Jelsoft reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

Which means they can change the terms to saying pre vb4.0 only

Exactly why we're not paying for a renewal now. Seems stupid to invest in a company who does that to its customers (who have been loyal and faithful for years!).

Seriously, I dont understand Nick and others who say ''YOU'LL GET DICOUNTZZZ' - whoop-de-****. I think I would rather use that $60 I just wasted to invest in a company with some level of people skills and public relations.

[chewbacca]

Do you have any other companies in mind which would be a better investment?

[Nick]

First of all, there is no point in turning this thread into another "they aren't allowed to charge us again" discussion. There are enough of those, and this thread isn't dealing with that.

Blackbook, now it seems like you are just looking for any and all drama you can conjure up here. You continue to find reasons to bash IB when in fact you have no ground to stand on. Nothing has been made official, nothing has changed, and no announcements have been made. Just sit tight and wait, and appreciate the little bit of information that has been revealed so far. If it doesn't benefit you, then again: just wait. Why fight and argue when it isn't going to make a difference?

[Nick]

I think I would rather use that $60 I just wasted to invest in a company with some level of people skills and public relations.

Then please do. Stop jumping up and down and throwing tantrums here, and save us all some time.

[hotwheels]

I am with you too blackbook, and i had already paid my renewal fee before finding out about the possiblity of this rate increase and probably no longer recieving support for my blog system do to the new cms only......but becareful here, i recieved 3 infractions in a ten minute period, and many of the post's in this thread are waaaaay worse then what i said. And of course i will probably reicieve more infractions for stating that you may get infractions, but all vb wants at this point is your first question, then nothing else should follow. Trust me, i am with you 100%, but most of the members with huge post counts here, are going to taunt you into banning......As someone stated earlier, just step away from the computer for an hour or so, and come back. Even though it will probably still make you mad, you will still have access to the forums. I may not now, but i am just trying to add something positive to an unhappy customers thread.

It too would be nice since everyone keeps stating that "here is another one of those threads", steve machol may just lock the threads with this in the block:

As we have stated many times and as Ray has also posted, this has not been determined yet. We can't answer something for which there is no answer. When this is decided there will be a clear announcement posted about this, Until then there is nothing we can add.

That may help with peoples frustrations and help keep them from recieving infractions.

[Apokalupsis]

Yeah, they can change the license for new buyers - but surely not those who've already signed up for those terms?!

I'm not offering legal advice, but I am reporting legal ruling. That being said...

According to what I've read and understand, they cannot do that as it would be a breach of licensing agreement and they would open themselves up for a plethora of lawsuits.

A disclaimer that the internet company can change the terms that the customer agreed to and paid for at the time, is not sufficient for said company to actually change the terms for that existing customer to any change the company wants. The customer must agree to the newly changed terms for the changes to be binding.

In the instance linked below, the courts ruled that if a customer did not agree to the new terms, they are not enforceable because the disclaimer (of being able to change the terms at any time) is "illusory".

Blockbuster learned this the hard way, and lost.

http://www.jdsupra.com/post/documentViewer.aspx?fid=3897327d-161d-49df-b31c-0b448bb1898a

http://www.pillsburylaw.com/siteFiles/Publications/3C5A922BE1FDE1E9B0146D5CB74C97A1.pdf

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090508/0212134792.shtml

For non-existent customers, of course the licensing conditions can change at any time. But once both parties have agreed, it is binding for the terms stated in the agreement.

Again, don't take this as legal advice, it's just an observation and understanding based on this court case linked above.

[chewbacca]

Thanks, that was informative and should boost our confidence.

[Apokalupsis]

See ash's point number 3

Ash's point #3 is wrong. A clause to change the pricing on existing customers at any time doesn't exist in the licensing agreement.

It is of my opinion, that just the forum upgrade to vb4 would be free for existing current license holders...but that the suite would not be included (since it is much more than just the forum software).

Again, I'm not an attorney offering legal advice, just basing it off what I understand from previous court decisions.


_____________

I have an owned license...have had it for years. My annual support expired a couple months ago...tonight I renewed. vb has always been a stellar forum software, vb4 looks to be even more spectacular with all the features and changes.

[globalbuzz]

vBulletin are trying to keep in touch with an ever changing market, forums have seen a decline since social networks such as Facebook have garnered interest

forum owners have always found it tough earning off their forums

if vBulletin 4's CMS is good then I will certainly invest in the product however they have a tremendous amount of competition from the genuinely good open source products out there

vBulletin is like a tanker trying to turn and anyone in the know can explain how difficult that can be

any person who has an interest in CMS will buy the product if it is good, as it adds value to your business

seems like some of you are hitting yourselves with a mallet on the thumb purely to prove you can

I wait with interest for vB4, if the price is not justified then people simply won't bite

Good luck with vB4 guys because we all know how many years we have been waiting for you guys to step to the plate on this issue

hope it works out for all of us as coding is a damn expensive business

[MRGTB]

vBulletin are trying to keep in touch with an ever changing market, forums have seen a decline since social networks such as Facebook have garnered interest

forum owners have always found it tough earning off their forums

if vBulletin 4's CMS is good then I will certainly invest in the product however they have a tremendous amount of competition from the genuinely good open source products out there

vBulletin is like a tanker trying to turn and anyone in the know can explain how difficult that can be

any person who has an interest in CMS will buy the product if it is good, as it adds value to your business

seems like some of you are hitting yourselves with a mallet on the thumb purely to prove you can

I wait with interest for vB4, if the price is not justified then people simply won't bite

Good luck with vB4 guys because we all know how many years we have been waiting for you guys to step to the plate on this issue

hope it works out for all of us as coding is a damn expensive business

Yeah I agree with you, I think what's interesting to note here is that the "main product", the forum suit is going to be IB's main selling point now, and not the forum only like previously. In this respect IB are changing the shape of vBulletin as we knew it.

But I do think it's a good thing, and for the better. I think the forum suite idea (all be it more expensive), is the way to go in making the product a more complete all-round product. Add-ons are all well and fine, but they have limitations, unlike creating a suite were everything is operating from one core. So much more can be done, and in the future it will be a much better product as a result.

Truth is, even though many people might not be interested in the Project Tools, I'm sure those people can still find a use for it sooner or later on their sites. It's going to be included, so why not just make use of it? I know I would, and I'm not interested in it like many others here.

I do think an awful lot is resting right now though on the quality of the CMS attached to it, and IB are well aware of this. If the CMS disappoints, it could be the straw that breaks the camels back. People have been waiting so long now for a quality vBCMS, that they won't accept anything other than top-quality now.