vBulletin 5 Facebook Application Data Usage and Privacy

[slinky]

Before I can consider using the Facebook App included within vBulletin 5, I would need to know information about data collection and aggregation and privacy. I couldn't find any answers and hope to be able to do so as it would be necessary to include this within a privacy policy. When I connect to the Facebook App, it appears that I have to give vBulletin permission to provide several items of information about my profile to vBulletin Solutions (vBSI) such as a user's email, likes, friends list, etc.

Is the information/data sent to vBSI as part of the Facebook App used by vBSI in any way other than to solely perform the service for the purchasers of the Facebook App?

Has the data or will the data (in whole or part, individually or in the aggregate) be or have been used for any purpose other than solely and exclusively to provide this service to purchasers of the Facebook App?

Obviously I would need to put any information in my own privacy policy if I would consider using the app. This would mean knowing whether:

(a) Does vBSI ever review or use this information, individually or in the aggregate, internally at vBSI and/or Internet Brands?

(b) Does vBSI ever use, sell or provide this information, individual or in the aggregate, to third parties?

(c) Does vBSI use contact information, such as email address, for any purpose either internally, on behalf of customers, e.g. using the email addresses to disseminate mailings to email addresses collected by the Facebook App on behalf of third parties?

What is it that you can tell us regarding the past, current and future use of any data collected by the vBulletin Facebook App? What can you tell us about the use of personally identifiable information and aggregate information for the data collected and arising out of the Facebook App?

Thank you for the assistance.

[Wayne Luke]

Moved to the appropriate location.

If you can't agree with the terms of the App, then don't deploy it. That is really all I can say at this time.

[slinky]

Moved to the appropriate location.
If you can't agree with the terms of the App, then don't deploy it. That is really all I can say at this time.

Wayne - how can anyone agree or not agree to the terms of the app if they have no idea what they are agreeing to?

With every application or service I've ever seen, there is usually a privacy and data usage policy that goes along with the service. What is it? What do I tell users who will obviously ask questions about what data is being used by third parties - and in this instance, vBulletin Solutions and Internet Brands are a third party.

Let's assume they are a service provider. How can any purchaser of the Facebook Apps keep their privacy policy intact if they don't know the role that IB/VBSI is playing as a service provider that is passed personally identifiable data?

[dethfire]

Moved to the appropriate location.

If you can't agree with the terms of the App, then don't deploy it. That is really all I can say at this time.

How can we agree to them if we don't understand them. He's asking questions

[Alfa1]

I think the main worry with this accessing of user data, is that:

1. Internet Brands operates thousands of websites in a number of verticals and thereby competes with many vbulletin websites.
2. Internet Brands operates many websites and services which could potentially benefit from gaining user data.
3. Its stated by vBS / Internet Brands that 'Your community and content become a dynamic part of a vast vBulletin Social Network'
4. IIRC its stated by vBS that the facebook app sends user data to vBS / Internet Brands servers.
5. There is no contract limiting Internet Brands / vBS in its possible use of this user data.

While the facebook app previously was expensive, its now added to vb5 free of charge. This is very generous of vBS.
I think a lot of webmasters would be much more comfortable if the worries concerning data protection would be addressed and resolved.

[slinky]

Alfa1 - The concerns I have are much more rudimentary. How can any site create any privacy policy if it doesn't know what a third party service provider like vBulletin Solutions / Internet Brands does with the data?

What do you say when users ask you what those permissions mean when they try to use your vBulletin Facebook App? It says your forum is asking for permission for all of this information -- but do users know that the data is going to vBulletin at all? I looked at vBulletin's own Facebook App. There has been no privacy policy there for at least a year. Now with regard to the "generosity" of including the Facebook App, this makes me wonder whether they are subsidizing this "gift" by using the information that flows through this Facebook App. Right now vBulletin / Internet Brands has been selling it without telling anyone what it actually does with the data.

All of these questions I posted need to be answered and should have been answered long ago.

[Wayne Luke]

The data is controlled by Facebook's data usage policies which are fairly strict on what you can use it for under any circumstance. Currently all it is used for is to see what vBulletin Forum sites your friends have liked and show them to you as a user.

How the data is collected and used was discussed in this blog: https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/entr...twork-Overview

Hasn't changed.

[slinky]

The data is controlled by Facebook's data usage policies which are fairly strict on what you can use it for under any circumstance. Currently all it is used for is to see what vBulletin Forum sites your friends have liked and show them to you as a user.

How the data is collected and used was discussed in this blog: https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/entr...twork-Overview Hasn't changed.

Wayne - I read this. There is no mention at all about Internet Brands' usage policies for this data in plain English. Pointing to Facebook's data usage policies (whatever those may be that you're referring to) does not provide any of us with what we need to hear -- a direct statement from the service provider. There isn't any clarification about what actually happens behind closed doors at IB so we can ensure what is seen and not seen and what is used and not used.

I truly appreciate your best efforts to answer this question - I do - but this is all unofficial. If Facebook has data usage policies, why hasn't IB/VB posted its own usage policies in plain English regarding the Facebook App?

[Zachery]

We're restricted by facebooks policies.

[slinky]

We're restricted by facebooks policies.

Which means what? Is there a URL or link that someone can point to so we can see these policies that vBSI/IB claims they are in compliance with?

Looking at this policy is a good start. I'm still not sure why IB/VBSI isn't making it clear the complete extent to which data is used and handled which arises out of the Facebook App. This shouldn't be a difficult question to answer.

[Wayne Luke]

https://developers.facebook.com/policy/

Our privacy policy is here: http://www.internetbrands.com/privac....vbulletin.com

[slinky]

https://developers.facebook.com/policy/
Our privacy policy is here: http://www.internetbrands.com/privac....vbulletin.com

When a user consents to sharing their information with the Facebook App, what does vBulletin Solutions Inc. do with that data? This has never been made clear. Let's take a look at what you've provided and I hope this clarifies the issue:

IB Privacy Policy: "This privacy policy applies to our websites and mobile and interactive applications on which we display or post a direct link to this privacy policy."

Since the company and the Facebook Apps themselves don't provide a direct link to this privacy policy, the Internet Brands Privacy Policy you've cited does not apply.

Facebook Developers Privacy Policy:
II (3) You will have a privacy policy that tells users what user data you are going to use and how you will use, display, share, or transfer that data.

We established that there is no privacy policy that explains how you are using, displaying sharing or transfering the data collected from the Facebook Apps. Facebook is telling you exactly what I am - you and every third party service provider is to put up a clear policy. As per the above, there is none.

Look guys - I understand you're in support and there may be parts of the company which you really don't want to speak for with absolute guarantees. If you don't know the answer that's fine. It just seems that neither of you are comfortable making a representation about how VBSI/Internet Brands uses/handles the data from the Facebook Apps. What I do need is to have this policy clarified by someone who knows.

Is there a Privacy Officer in the house that could answer this question and provide us with the policy. I think that it is clear that this is necessary and important.

[Wayne Luke]

I don't know what else to say. No matter what answer we give you will not be happy. You're stated unequivocally you're not spending another dime with us, on this site and others so I am not really sure why I bother answering your roundabout and never ending questions.

[slinky]

I don't know what else to say. No matter what answer we give you will not be happy. You're stated unequivocally you're not spending another dime with us, on this site and others so I am not really sure why I bother answering your roundabout and never ending questions.

Wayne - you haven't given any answer and just point to a bunch of links which clearly do not apply. Companies vary as to how they use data and each different way they may use data can still be in compliance with their own and Facebook's privacy policies. I was nice enough to give you an out and say that if you don't know, you can simply say that and say that you'll have a statement from someone who deals with privacy issues and vBulletin software - assuming there is someone who is responsible for this responsibility.

Instead, you choose to make some poor insinuation about my character to try to brand me as a troublemaker who has no purpose here but to bust your chops. The fact is that if you were following all my posts, you'd know why I have to look at upgrading to VB 5 - and it involves IB refusing to provide customers with the courtesy of upgrading VB 3 software so that it's compatible with our server's PHP 5 install. It's either vB Five Way or the Highway so I may consider a VB 5 upgrade to move these now dead VB 3 forums to VB 4 temporarily and maybe to VB 5 in the distant future.

I've been courteous enough to keep this in-house and have asked you a straightforward question that any reasonable person would ask and, if you couldn't answer it, simply direct me to someone who could. These evasive tactics are not benefitting the company. If there isn't any statement that can be made with certainty regarding how the Facebook App data is specifically handled and used, everyone here will suspect that the company is hiding something.

[Zachery]

We're required to follow Facebook's privacy policies, because we use their systems. Anything facebook says we cannot do, we cannot do.
We're bound to our own privacy policies. I don't know what more you need from us.