Need to be sold on the functional superiority of VB4 over VB3.8.x

[RedHotChili]

I have a heavily customized VB3.8 forum with many mods and add-ons, as well as a unique color scheme, that took me many, many man-hours to create. I am willing (I think) to recreate my forum's look on a VB4 platform, but I need to know if it's worth it to do so based on the inherent functional superiority of VB4 over VB3. (I'm assuming VB4 is superior to VB3.8 in terms of capability.) In other words, will it increase the user experience for my forum members?

So what I'm looking for is a comparison table that lists the features of VB4 in tabular form next to those of VB3, the way most advertisers of products list the advantages of the new over the old. Does anyone know if such a table exists?

The only table I know of is the one on the homepage of vbulletin.com that lists the features of VB4 Forum next to those of VB4 Publishing Suite. This is helpful for new prospective customers of VB. But worthless, imo, for existing customers of VB who are contemplating upgrading to this new platform. We need to know the advantages of VB4 over VB3.8.x (in my case) in order to be sold. Simple as that.

So if someone in VB sales knows of such a comparison table, could you please direct me to it.

Thanks.

[Clutch]

So what I'm looking for is a comparison table that lists the features of VB4 in tabular form next to those of VB3, the way most advertisers of products list the advantages of the new over the old. Does anyone know if such a table exists?

I'm looking for the exact same thing.

I consider the jump from VB 3.8.x to VB 4 series to be a big one, so I am really trying to research the benefits. I'm looking into a couple of other software packages to convert to as well, but prefer to stay with VB if I can find the real value in going to the 4 series for our specific community.

[Alfa1]

The only reasons that I can see is that you might need certain addons that are available for vb4 only or if you need the CKEditor. vb4 has a article system (CMS) which you might need. The CMS has many issues in regard to performance, bad SEO, bugs, workflow, design, and will not replace vbadvanced. Nonetheless, maybe you need what it does?
With vb4 you will also get, 850+ bugs, many issues, an asset manager which confuses your members a lot, a good looking mobile skin, which will not show all your site or all functions, search has many issues (unless you go for digitalpoints sphinx), the constant need to update to get more bug fixes.

At this point I do not see moving to vb4 as a good trade off, if you have to rewrite your addons. Especially if you need a custom style, because stylevars are still being worked on. vb4.1.10 included a lot of stylevar changes. I dont think those will be the last. Also keep in mind that a separate team of developers is working on vb5. Maybe 4.2 or 4.3 will be a better trade off.

[Maurd]

an asset manager which confuses your members a lot

You know Alfa1, just because you don't like the Asset Manager doesn't mean everyone else does. My members and myself personally love it and it's flexibility. If you don't like the Asset Manager, just disable it; You'll get the same ancient uploader that was in vB3.

[Alfa1]

You know Alfa1, just because you don't like the Asset Manager doesn't mean everyone else does. My members and myself personally love it and it's flexibility. If you don't like the Asset Manager, just disable it; You'll get the same ancient uploader that was in vB3.

There has been plenty of discussion, were quite a few webmasters made clear they are not happy with it. Its not a matter of personal taste.

[ekempter]

... a good looking mobile skin, which will not show all your site or all functions, ...

Would you please explain this further.

[Alfa1]

The mobile skin does not show social groups, and certain paid functions are restricted. To unlock these features (polls, moderation) you will need to buy the mobile suite for $199.

[feldon23]

I have a heavily customized VB3.8 forum with many mods and add-ons, as well as a unique color scheme, that took me many, many man-hours to create. I am willing (I think) to recreate my forum's look on a VB4 platform, but I need to know if it's worth it to do so based on the inherent functional superiority of VB4 over VB3. (I'm assuming VB4 is superior to VB3.8 in terms of capability.)

A poor assumption to make.

[RedHotChili]

With vb4 you will also get 850+ bugs, many issues... search has many issues (unless you go for digitalpoints sphinx), the constant need to update to get more bug fixes.

If that's the case, that's really a shame, as it sounds like VB4 was prematurely released - not well thought out - what with so many bugs yet to be resolved.

One annoying bug that I can plainly see is the alignment problem of a "viewed post" when you click on the View Post icon () to the right of the username in the "Originally Posted by ____ ". The post fails to line up properly.

At this point I do not see moving to vb4 as a good trade off, if you have to rewrite your addons. Especially if you need a custom style, because stylevars are still being worked on. vb4.1.10 included a lot of stylevar changes. I dont think those will be the last. Also keep in mind that a separate team of developers is working on vb5. Maybe 4.2 or 4.3 will be a better trade off.

Maybe I'll wait until 4.2 or 4.3 as you suggest, when hopefully most of these annoying bugs have been fixed.

A poor assumption to make.

That's too bad. How can IB expect to sell this upgrade if it's not functionally superior to VB3.8? On looks alone?

[digitalpoint]

You could probably answer your own question and have a look at the forums owned by the same company that owns vBulletin...

http://www.internetbrands.com/our-brands/automotive/

vBulletin 4 certainly works... But is it so functionally superior compared to vB3 that they thought it was worth the time/effort to upgrade their own sites for no cost? No.

That being said, I upgraded my fairly large vB3 site to vB4 very early (almost 2 years ago), and it was a huge amount of work with all the custom code we had written around vB3 and I'm glad I did (but it wasn't because of all the new functionality I got).

[RedHotChili]

You could probably answer your own question and have a look at the forums owned by the same company that owns vBulletin...

http://www.internetbrands.com/our-brands/automotive/

vBulletin 4 certainly works... But is it so functionally superior compared to vB3 that they thought it was worth the time/effort to upgrade their own sites for no cost? No.

Good point. I didn't find a single site of theirs running VB4 - not that I checked every single one.

Maybe that's the reason why there's no forum feature comparison table between VB3 and VB4. Because there's simply no functional superiority of VB4 over VB3.

Would it have killed them to at least improve the search function, for crying out loud! That's been one of my biggest beefs with VB over the years - the poor embedded search engine. This way they could at least offer one incentive for upgrading - to get a better search feature!

As it is, from what I can tell, VB4 just has a more "contemporary" look out of the box than does VB3. But with that, you also get a box load of bugs thrown in for free.

So in a nutshell, if you run a stock VB3 site with no customization at all, then the incentive to upgrade to VB4 is to get a more contemporary look, as you likely won't be making any modifications and will be using the software as is.

But if you have a heavily customized site (like mine) there is no incentive to upgrade, as there are no improvements in functionality to the forum software.

Would this be fair to say?

[digitalpoint]

There is a major improvement with search in the fact that it's abstracted and modular. Meaning if you have something to replace it with, it's a drop-in replacement without any file edits. To me, that is the biggest improvement.

[RedHotChili]

There is a major improvement with search in the fact that it's abstracted and modular. Meaning if you have something to replace it with, it's a drop-in replacement without any file edits. To me, that is the biggest improvement.

That's good to know. So in VB4 you can replace it with, say, a Sphinx Search engine, whereas in VB3 it's not possible due to the inherent architecture?

Well, that's at least one entry in the VB4 column in this yet-to-be-constructed feature comparison table.

One more and I might just be sold.



Heck, if someone cites another advantage, we might just be able to construct our own comparison table right here in this thread!

[digitalpoint]

Native Simlinks and VerticalResponse integration? Lol

The Facebook integration is new to vB4... There really isn't anything major functionality-wise though... So if that's what you are looking for, probably best bet is to wait until vB5.

Even vBSI's staff have given advice to wait until vB5 vs upgrading to vB4 at this point.

[RedHotChili]

Nahhh, Facebook integration is of no value to me, as my site is a closed private site, viewable and accessible only to registered members. No external links.

Yeah, maybe I'll just wait for VB5 if it has major improvements under the hood.