vBulletin Better Allow Refunds - What Happened?

[Ptwiggens]

I bought vBulletin based on the email that we all got and were a little miffed at. From the email, I gathered that the product was going to be released imminently and that the "presale" was just for current customers, and that I would be able to download the product right away. That obviously wasn't the case, the email was very misleading... and I'm almost positive that I will be requesting a refund and if not granted one then charging it back.

I was excited to get on here and try out the forum. Unfortunately, that excitement quickly turned to worry.

I'm going to ignore the unbelievable lag and assume that is because the software is still relatively early in development.

I guess my question is... what has the vBulletin team been doing all this time?

This release should have brought vBulletin back up to current technology standards... what some people call "Web 2.0," though at this point we are getting close to 3.0. It's clear that the way conversations happen on forums as they are right now is not the most efficient way of conversing, nor is how the content is organized or brought to the user. Just like when the iPod came out the clickwheel was a brilliant design, we now have the iPod Touch, and the clickwheel is obsolete. vB is clinging to what it knows... it should be improving the way that conversations happen. This model is stagnant.

This software does not bring vBulletin's dated technology up to speed with the rest of the web world... it's just a little less far behind (that might be an overstatement) than it used to be. I mean, where is the ajax and web 2.0 stuff? Polls still require a new page? Aside from vBulletin websites, I literally cannot remember the last time I participated in a poll online and had it need a page load to display results... everyone is using ajax and other technologies now... in fact, it's been that way for quite a long time.

These things would have made this new software killer.

What vBulletin needed to do was INNOVATE. They clearly didn't do any innovating for this release.

There are so many ways to improve forum software. The name of the game is bringing content (threads) that might interest the user to the forefront. The process of scrolling down the list of forums is cumbersome... just off the top of my head I can think of some great ideas on how a custom stream of content could be created for each individual user.

What I would have liked to see:

• Quick replies load using ajax
• Poll choice/results load using ajax
• When viewing a thread, new replies from others load using ajax in real time
• Goes with above, option to have thread ordered in reverse chronological so new replies load at top.
• Ajax Thread Pagination
• On-Page notifications of thread replies, PM's, mentions, etc. that fade after a few seconds...
• Mentions - any time someone uses your username, you would get a notification.
• Personalized Forum - You select which forums you want to include and it conglomerates those threads into one feed so you don't have to be scrolling all over the place to read threads in different forums. There could also be additional rules you could set, like include any threads your friends participate in. This is just off the top of my head... could probably come up with something amazing with some time.
• Thread Recommendations
• CHAT! Exactly like facebook chat but for vBulletin.
• Chatrooms
• Either redo calendar and just make it into an event/invitation system... noone is using the site as their calendar, the only use for a calendar is for events.
• Calendar Integration: Thread for event discussion, or discussion on the event page (like facebook), RSVP's, invites, etc.
• Forum Mailing List Solution
• Much better PM system
• Etc.

These things would have made this new software killer. Obviously they can't do everything, but a few of those features would have been nice. Just a few of those implemented and vBulletin would KILL any other forum out there.

Instead... what groundbreaking features did we get (only including actual features users use):

SEO Stuff (Should have happened years ago)
Video Embedding (Should have happened years ago)
Pop-up auto-refreshing buddylist with ICQ-style alerts when Friends come online (sounds useless)
Private Message Filing (Should have happened years ago)


I'm sorry, but the whole thing is pathetic. This is the same vBulletin with some of the problems ironed out, not something that should be boasted as a new release, or even deserving of bumping the version from 3 to a 4.

No innovation, no real progress. vBulletin will continue to stagnate for another couple years... maybe they'll finally decide to do what they need to do at that point.

[rldoughjr]

So, what are the options and how do they stack up with 4.0?

[cheat-master30]

Quick replies load using ajax

Already in vBulletin 3 or so. It's disabled here probably so they can check phrasing of certain messages.

• Poll choice/results load using ajax

Don't know, this might have been in vBulletin 3 as it is...

• Mentions - any time someone uses your username, you would get a notification.

Oh god no. Half the customer's servers would die if this kind of thing was used due to how sheerly common it would be occur.

• Thread Recommendations

I think this was in 3.8 and 4, related topics? Or something else?

• CHAT! Exactly like facebook chat but for vBulletin.
• Chatrooms

I don't think shared hosting accounts could support this without the site being suspended in about ten minutes.

The rest are good suggestions.

[testbot]

wow. what a brutal thread.

[VonDoom]

Curious who you think is at the fore front and who has everything you have described. Serious question. for my own personal research. To me it sounds like your looking for a social networking solution as opposed to actual forum software. Again just an observation. No malice intended.

[pds]

Seems like the people satisfied with how things have been handled need to pipe up. I'm not sure where people are getting their expectations from, but all the emails I have received from vB have stated my options clearly. They have also followed through on everything. It's sad that people are chiming in with all the features they expected...right before the release. Usually that info is helpful much earlier in the development process.

Anyway, I am tired of reading the negative, and just wanted to chime in with a thank you to vB from a 8+ year customer.

[Mark.B]

Seems like the people satisfied with how things have been handled need to pipe up. I'm not sure where people are getting their expectations from, but all the emails I have received from vB have stated my options clearly. They have also followed through on everything. It's sad that people are chiming in with all the features they expected...right before the release. Usually that info is helpful much earlier in the development process.

Many people did that, but were ignored.

[rldoughjr]

I'd like to know what the options are. I need less networking, more forum based discussion. vB seemed best when I looked around last year. Time to reconsider my choice.

[Steve Machol]

You are of course entitled to your opinion but it is clearly not shared by the vast majority of customers. Nonetheless if you have specific suggestions please post them in the vB4 Suggestions forum. If you see what you believe to be bugs then please report them in the Bug Tracker.

Also it was clearly and openly stated that this is a Beta version with a lot of rough edges. We could have made the decision to now show you anything until it was completed, but then (a) customers would not have had the option to comment and make suggestions prior to release and (b) our philosophy is to share these things with our customers as quickly as we can.

[Steve Machol]

Seems like the people satisfied with how things have been handled need to pipe up. I'm not sure where people are getting their expectations from, but all the emails I have received from vB have stated my options clearly. They have also followed through on everything. It's sad that people are chiming in with all the features they expected...right before the release. Usually that info is helpful much earlier in the development process.

Anyway, I am tired of reading the negative, and just wanted to chime in with a thank you to vB from a 8+ year customer.

Thank you.

[VonDoom]

I for one love what i see and am happy to be able to see the beta in a live environment makes my decision to upgrade an easy one. Just to bad i wont be able to make the sale deadline.

[rldoughjr]

No innovation, no real progress. vBulletin will continue to stagnate for another couple years... maybe they'll finally decide to do what they need to do at that point.

Help me out here. What competing products do all the things you are looking for? Your insight might save me some time looking around.

[Ptwiggens]

Already in vBulletin 3 or so. It's disabled here probably so they can check phrasing of certain messages.

That's right... had a momentary lapse after having it load a page on here and forgot.

Don't know, this might have been in vBulletin 3 as it is...

It is not.

Oh god no. Half the customer's servers would die if this kind of thing was used due to how sheerly common it would be occur.

I'm not a programmer or anything, but I would imagine there is a way to do this, even if it is crippled (i.e. not in real time, etc)

I think this was in 3.8 and 4, related topics? Or something else?

I was thinking something a little smarter than the current system.

I don't think shared hosting accounts could support this without the site being suspended in about ten minutes.

Other companies already offer solutions for this... it is definitely possible. (Thank you for the feedback)

As for me wanting a social networking solution, I don't... this is about improving the conversation and how you access conversations... there are definitely similarities between them though.

Yes, there have been tons of threads on how dissatisfied people are, the vast majority of complaints, no matter how valid, get ignored. I can see this is going to continue as staff has already come in here to tell me I'm wrong. Not to acknowledge my feedback (which obviously has good suggestions in it), but to tell me that my whole post is wrong ("you are entitled to your opinion"). Typical Jelsoft. The vast majority of users don't want innovation and new features for vbulletin?

With a philosophy like that, it's no wonder you guys haven't added a single truly useful or cool feature that other forums haven't had for some time.

Anyone who tries to claim that this version made forward progress by way of innovation has only one name: Fanboy.

[Ptwiggens]

Help me out here. What competing products do all the things you are looking for? Your insight might save me some time looking around.

This post is a joke, right? Because there isn't anyone out there already doing it, I shouldn't want it?

Brilliant.

(Edit: My bad if you were asking... I thought you were sticking up for vBulletin by saying that noone else does it so why should they... please forgive me... there is one in particular but I can't remember the name... has a ton of web 2.0 features and stuff. It's not nearly where it needs to be for production use, but if they had the funds vb has, I'm sure it would be.)

[Mark.B]

vB4 is a disappointment, but when I renewed my license this week for $130 I knew exactly what I was getting - the right to use 3.8 with full support indefinitely (well, until they EOL it and I can still use it then anyhow).

It also gives me the right to download vB4 should I wish to do so, but that's a right I won't be exercising.

There are various issues of the licensing, but I did at least know what I was buying and I didn't find the email misleading. Annoying, yes, but not misleading. they were very upfront about how they wanted to screw more money out of me.