Any refunds of we don't like VB4???

[roscoe36]

I would recommend holding off on these kinds of decisions until you know what the final style will look like.

Right, don't hold off on buying, just hold off on asking for a refund. You guys crack me up.

[motowebmaster]

Personally, I don't see the incentive to make the purchase before the pre-sale deadline. Regardless of the price of vbulletin, the cost to attempt to incorporate the upgrade will be greater. Early next year, when my licenses are due to renew, I'm hoping that the circumstances will be different. There are many things about vb4 that I like, but even if I was 100% satisfied there would be other integration challenges that would needlessly impact user experience.

I'm not expecting the vbulletin team to recognize this now, but later on after v4 is released.

[lapta06]

To Sales:

Any refunds of we don't like VB4???

We would have to buy by next week to get the $130 price, but the full version 4.0 will not be available until after you have our money.

What happens if we don't like what it turns out to be?

I noticed you upgraded the VB site a day or two ago with a Beta version of VB 4, and it is one of the ugliest color and font schemes I have ever seen. I suspect there will be options to fix the whole look, but so far I am not impressed at all.

David

I think everyone has seen this post in the wrong light.

At the moment Vbulletin are offering this "great offer" on VB4. Well as we have seen from other threads the deal isn't that great for people who currently run VB3+

VB are selling an unfunished product, which i personally think is wrong, but hey nothing to do with me how they market the product! It's like selling a car with a brand new engine, but not really sure how the engine will run or even look at the moment.

I love VB and will carry on running VB 3.8 until there is a 100% tested verison of VB4 out. This could be in a months time, or a years time, no one is really sure. And before you all kick off at me about that comment, VB are still releasing patches for 3.8. I have no idea if the VB 3.8 team are the same as the 4 team but the odds are it is the same team, so spearding the work load over 2 major projects can not be good how ever you look at it.

A refund option will never be offered. There are soooo many reason for this which i will not go into. But there need to be more beta testers, and i mean real beta tests, not some forum which has 6 people a day visiting it. Why not release a non public beta verison (hosting the forums on your own PC only), so people like myself who have been using VB for years can check out all the admin function, import there current forums and see if everything is running as it should.

At the moment VB are too busy pushing there new CMS(content managment system) to worry about their real user base. There are so many CMS around that are free which offer hooks in to VB and have hundreds of FREE addons. I think VB are trying to push in to market where they are not needed, and due to their huge user database of non IT pros who will buy the new CMS they will more then likey suceed at the cost of the stand forum software. I will not be using the new CMS as i paid a web designer £120 a few years ago to link my forums in to my website, and it works great. SO to redesgin my site around the new layout will just cause a lot of un-need problems all round.

Anyway back to the subject in hand. Refunds would be great, but as i said its not going to happen. Not being given the option of a 30 day trail is a bit of a kick in the teeth but its something you have to live with.
The real question is how long will it be before its worth paying for VB4?

[SimpleSchooling]

I for one will not be purchasing before I get to see a demo of the CMS and how I can integrate memberships/private forums with it. I've searched high and low for the "just right" product and there is no way I'm going to trust this package sight unseen. I like what they have planned and honestly I hope it fulfills all my expectations, I love it, and purchase it when it comes out. But there is better software to spend my money on this week, software that I can use imemdiately.

[lapta06]

CMS should be left open source, microsoft found this out about 6 years ago when they stoped supporting there ASP CMS.


PS please fix this quick reply box, cant use the scroll bars and have to click about 20 times before i am able to type within the box.

[Dilly]

I noticed you upgraded the VB site a day or two ago with a Beta version of VB 4, and it is one of the ugliest color and font schemes I have ever seen.

Your post is worse... we aren't all 80...

[Aeolian]

I think everyone has seen this post in the wrong light.

respect
+1

[ZippySLC]

lets not call names, looking at david's user info i can say he has been here longer then some developers and if he does not like something "now" then there is a good reason for that.
i am not worried about money or refund, but if the end product is something i dont like then i will have to think about it...
i know u can customize the look and what not but i am paying good money for something that should be at least half descent out of the box.

I don't really care if he's been using vB since 1.0, he's being passive aggressive and stirring up a hornets nest when he shouldn't be. Plus, with his "tenure" here he should know better.

If he doesn't like the look of vb4, or doesn't like the pre-sale policy, or wants a refund then she should go and look at other software or wait until it's to 4.1 before he upgrades to it.

[David Copeland]

I think everyone has seen this post in the wrong light.

Frankly, if some of the members who posted here were posting at our site, their posts (not the whole thread) would have been censored. I guess that is why our forum has a reputation of having one of the most strict forum rules, oath, and code of ethics that all 40,000+ members must agree to, all using their real first and last name).

On the other hand, some of the members who have posted here have been very respectful of my intentions. If they wanted more clarity from me, I tried to comply. I am grateful for the on-topic helpfulness, and I will try to avoid reading where someone wanted to pee on my carpet in the confines of my own thread.

VB are selling an unfunished product, which i personally think is wrong, but hey nothing to do with me how they market the product! It's like selling a car with a brand new engine, but not really sure how the engine will run or even look at the moment.

(See my Cadillac story above. Then again, there are customers who will faithfully buy anything because they want to be counted in on a deal. Sometimes what they buy turns in a lemon. I honestly don't think the original founders of VB would have permitted cancelling owned licenses and then insisting on buying an unseen untested product at a discounted that is higher than the owned license was.

Reputation is everything in business. In our business we have paid members going back to pre-internet who have a less expensive annual fee than current members pay. But it is the loyal customers we developed from 1989 that are still selling our service and products by offering their testimonials which produce sales and more customers. What VB has done is isolated may of those loyal customers who bought ten years ago (see my Join date). So if my colleagues ask what forum software to go with, I can no longer say VB because I simply do not know what the final version will look like, in addition to it being more expensive.

A refund option will never be offered.

I am beginning to feel the same way. My support ticket asking for an exception if I were to buy today was misinterpreted by their answer. I followed up with clarity, but they have no yet responded and the clock is ticking. I suspect I will pass on the whole upgrade until next year when the full version has been released, along with the normal patches that always come with full releases.

The amount of savings is getting smaller. I look on how much can be earned by allowing future funds to be held without any immediate benefit or return. If the cost is $100 higher nest year for me, then so be it. By saving $130 or $190 and putting that cash to work, our return will exceed the $100 savings by miles

I will not be using the new CMS as i paid a web designer £120 a few years ago to link my forums in to my website, and it works great.

We also paid to have our forums linked too - as a news feed to our home page. Works and looks great. So maybe all I will look at next year will be the VB 4 Forum Only (which is supposed to be $175)

Not being given the option of a 30 day trail is a bit of a kick in the teeth but its something you have to live with.
The real question is how long will it be before its worth paying for VB4?

Most customers who have complaints on any product or service rarely speak up. I am one of those who do, because I know how important it is for my customers to let me know what I am doing right and what I am doing wrong.

My business professor said, "Only one customer out of 100 customers who have the same complaint will make the effort to contact upper management."

I think some of us here have spoke up with respect and necessity. Like you mention, it may not amount to any improvements or changes. But they can no longer use the excuse their customers never informed them.

Thank you so much for your post!

David

[David Copeland]

Your post is worse... we aren't all 80...

Well, I have to do something to be able to see the tiny faded font texts in this thread. I stopped increasing my comments to Size 3, and now just bold it. I hope it does not disturb you too much.

PS: Folks do not need to be 80 years of age to have eye sight problems. Be glad and grateful if members have the gift of excellent sight, as many of us do not.

[Ace]

Well, I have to do something to be able to see the tiny faded font texts in this thread. I stopped increasing my comments to Size 3, and now just bold it. I hope it does not disturb you too much.

PS: Folks do not need to be 80 years of age to have eye sight problems. Be glad and grateful if members have the gift of excellent sight, as many of us do not.

Your solution only helps you read your posts (and makes them appear 'shouty' to everyone else). You should try holding Ctrl and rolling your mouse wheel (or hitting + on the keyboard).

That way, your posts won't look abnormal, and you will be able to read everything fine.

[David Copeland]

I am beginning to feel the same way. My support ticket asking for an exception if I were to buy today was misinterpreted by their answer. I followed up with clarity, but they have no yet responded and the clock is ticking. I suspect I will pass on the whole upgrade until next year when the full version has been released, along with the normal patches that always come with full releases.

Update: Friday Evening, October 30, 2009

To all,

I went ahead and purchased the $130 upgrade tonight. I will use the downtime of waiting for the final release to explore and learn all of the additional admin changes in the CP, versus learning nothing from not having hands-on support and training with an owned CP license.

(The other option I was considering was to pay the higher price when the final version is released. But the thought of being pressured to learn VB 4 with a whole new CP all at once was daunting, while costing me more. This way I will have some breathing room while I learn with the free support the upgarde comes with)

Thank you for all of your comments and feedback,

David
(Off to learn something new at my age)

***************
PS: Is this font style and size better on your eyes than my previous choice of bold?

[ZippySLC]

Frankly, if some of the members who posted here were posting at our site, their posts (not the whole thread) would have been censored. I guess that is why our forum has a reputation of having one of the most strict forum rules, oath, and code of ethics that all 40,000+ members must agree to, all using their real first and last name).

On the other hand, some of the members who have posted here have been very respectful of my intentions. If they wanted more clarity from me, I tried to comply. I am grateful for the on-topic helpfulness, and I will try to avoid reading where someone wanted to pee on my carpet in the confines of my own thread.

Well, I have 1,039 members on my site, have rules, no oath or "code of ethics," or require real names (although several members do use them) on my forums, but if someone came on there and started whining and being passive aggressive (waah, I don't like the fonts, so rather than just change the text size in my browser, let me make my posts obnoxiously large) they'd be banned.

It's great and all that you have some really large board and make money from your community, but your $130 to upgrade your license is the same $130 that it cost me. So it's really a non-issue to start trying to throw your weight around with your 40k user site.

And, the funny thing is, all of this whining and crying and you ended up buying it anyway.

By the way, if a user pays to join your site and doesn't like it, what's your refund policy?

[David Copeland]

Well, I have 1,039 members on my site, have rules, no oath or "code of ethics," or require real names (although several members do use them) on my forums, but if someone came on there and started whining and being passive aggressive (waah, I don't like the fonts, so rather than just change the text size in my browser, let me make my posts obnoxiously large) they'd be banned.

It's great and all that you have some really large board and make money from your community, but your $130 to upgrade your license is the same $130 that it cost me. So it's really a non-issue to start trying to throw your weight around with your 40k user site.

And, the funny thing is, all of this whining and crying and you ended up buying it anyway.

By the way, if a user pays to join your site and doesn't like it, what's your refund policy?

Please go to the following Off-Topic Thread for my answer:

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?323468-We-have-eliminated-flamers-topic-baiters-and-spammers-Modified-Forum-Rules-Oath