Any refunds of we don't like VB4???

[Trekkan]

The way I look at it is simple:

Is what I see now (and what we've been told will be fixed/added for gold and beyond releases) worth my $130.00 right now?

If the answer is yes, buy now.

If the answer is no, Is what you hope to get out of it worth waiting and spending extra money on later down the road when you can be more assured of what you are getting for your money?

Clearly, the decision is yours. If you're not willing to put any faith into the product, don't spend the $130 now.

If later you see the product and still don't like it, you saved 130 bucks. If you want it, well... now you have to pay the FULL price. Hindsight and all that.

I think more people would better deal with the situation if they looked at it as in "Have faith in the product? Pay a discounted price of 130 now. No faith in the product? You can always pay full price later.". Basically, you're not getting screwed having to pay full price, you're just not getting the deal offered now.

[BestICanBe]

Buy now or later

The way I look at it is simple:

Is what I see now (and what we've been told will be fixed/added for gold and beyond releases) worth my $130.00 right now?

If the answer is yes, buy now.

If the answer is no, Is what you hope to get out of it worth waiting and spending extra money on later down the road when you can be more assured of what you are getting for your money?

Clearly, the decision is yours. If you're not willing to put any faith into the product, don't spend the $130 now.

If later you see the product and still don't like it, you saved 130 bucks. If you want it, well... now you have to pay the FULL price. Hindsight and all that.

I think more people would better deal with the situation if they looked at it as in "Have faith in the product? Pay a discounted price of 130 now. No faith in the product? You can always pay full price later.". Basically, you're not getting screwed having to pay full price, you're just not getting the deal offered now.

Well said indeed!
However, I'd like to add before we can have faith in the product, should we say in the first place that we need to have faith in the people who create this product?
From what I have observed so far by reading all the latest posts and threads regarding Vb4, Vb customers are losing this faith/trust whatever you call it towards the company (not towards the product). I think most people agree that Vbulletin has always been one of the best forum sofware out there in the market.

Frankly speaking, I myself am having dilemma, whether I should jump in, buy the product before the special offer finishes this Friday (but not knowing when exactly we'll get the product we pay for), or just wait until we actually see the final product, but pay higher price.

If a company has a full confidence in its own product, they'd surely offer a money back guarantee to their customers, wouldn't they?

[Drocr]

If a company has a full confidence in its own product, they'd surely offer a money back guarantee to their customers, wouldn't they?

Very well said, doesn't seem like vB has faith in themselves in order to offer their members full refunds. Even I am starting to wonder if vB 4.0 will be worth the 130. I actually like the functionality but as many others have clearly said... look at it. It does look rather cheaply made, like something I could get from free forum software.

I would expect to have a full refund or an extended date for the 130 discount it's rather RIDICULOUS that vB is trying to force users to get 4.0... almost as if they think its a flop.

[tormodg]

Very well said, doesn't seem like vB has faith in themselves in order to offer their members full refunds.

Yeah, they have so little faith in themselves that they

1. run their own product as beta here in the forums
2. allow disgruntled people to post rants and raves about an unreleased product
3. offer loyal customers a very good deal to upgrade to, long before it's even launched

Hm...sounds like fair business to me.

[tercede]

I like the comparison to buying a Cadillac.

For what it's worth, we're looking at software licences for social media platforms for our company - upwards of USD $50,000 per CPU. vBulletin at $180 (old price) or $280 (new price) is a steal whichever way we look at it.

BTW keep in mind that the $280 price is for the *suite*. The forums only will be - what - $190? That's not much more expensive than before, and no annual fees to pay. Doesn't that make it *cheaper* than before (unless you never paid for annual subscriptions)?

Asking for a refund is pointless. I'd just wait until it's launched before buying if you're worried that vB4 will not be what you expect.

I'm happy for your company but don't really care about it. It is completely sensible to ask for a refund if the product turns out to be complete utter unexpected crap..

Yeah, they have so little faith in themselves that they

1. run their own product as beta here in the forums
2. allow disgruntled people to post rants and raves about an unreleased product
3. offer loyal customers a very good deal to upgrade to, long before it's even launched

Hm...sounds like fair business to me.

1. wtf are you talking about
2. the people posting have legitimate thoughts and one issue is the product, unreleased
3. where have you been .. at one point leased license holders were favored over expired owned licenses ...

It would be nice if refunds were in X amount of days from the release of the final product..

[Shamil.]

Guys, can we keep it civil here before anything breaks out.

[tormodg]

I'm happy for your company but don't really care about it. It is completely sensible to ask for a refund if the product turns out to be complete utter unexpected crap..

The point wasn't about my company (I should have written "employer" because it's by no means my company) but about pricing - vBulletin offers fantastic features for the price.

1. wtf are you talking about
2. the people posting have legitimate thoughts and one issue is the product, unreleased
3. where have you been .. at one point leased license holders were favored over expired owned licenses ...

1. They run their own product as a beta. Here. Now.
2. Legitimate thoughts met with legitimate rebuttals. Unreleased is definitely an issue. A *known* issue, and it's the reason why the current offer is a "pre-sale" deal. Thus no refund should be expected - because buy buying in now, customers accept the risk. If they don't accept it, they shouldn't buy it now.
3. But not anymore. And "expired" owned licences are...expired.

It would be nice if refunds were in X amount of days from the release of the final product..

Yeah, it would be nice. But unreasonable IMHO.

Drop the swearing and you might come across as reasonable, too. Disagreeing is okay.

[David Copeland]

If I do not want the whole suite for $130, then how much is the VB 4 Forum Only presale?

[Shamil.]

there isn't a forum-only presale.

[David Copeland]

there isn't a forum-only presale.

Then that adds further confusion. I was told the VB 4 Forum Only price is $190.00. If I choose not to spend the $130 for the presale of the Suite, then it was suggested to me to pay the $190 for the VB 4 Forum Only. Therefore, I am looking for whatever presale of the $190 there is.

[ZippySLC]

Then that adds further confusion. I was told the VB 4 Forum Only price is $190.00. If I choose not to spend the $130 for the presale of the Suite, then it was suggested to me to pay the $190 for the VB 4 Forum Only. Therefore, I am looking for whatever presale of the $190 there is.

What confusion? Someone told you something wrong.

[ZippySLC]

Sorry, VB, but this look reminds me of some really cheap free software out there. We only have 40,000 members (and we are a paid site), but if they saw this cartoon and faded look, it would diminish the value we are presenting to our customers.

That's your opinion. I personally think the look of the new vB looks miles and away better than any of the older versions.

4) And more importantly, as I have asked in the previous post about a courtesy refund offer after the final version is released, I feel there are other compromises under the hood. Who knows? The operating system factors, php, and other internal engine parts may be so far away from anything in the Ver 3.8 engine, that it just won't work effectively without major customizations and hacks.

Above all, I would like assurances that either a courtesy extension for my $130 payment (due Friday) can be approved, and if not a courtesy refund is made available after I see what I am buying.

David[/SIZE]

No, you're just being a jerk. Why would you not open a support ticket or email sales directly rather than try to stir up the hornets nest here?

Since you think there have been compromises under the hood, do you plan on doing a code review before you run this live? Or are you really just whining because you want to get your $130 back if you don't like the default style, which is pretty much expected that the end user (that's you) will change.

[Jim Oaks]

The safest investment for us site owners right now seems to be to hold off until the software has actually been released and is in use to see the response to it. The idea of purchasing something when you really don't know what your getting, or when you're getting it, is a bit concerning.

[bforum]

fgs stop screaming !!
and about the whining the price aint much worse than before
The only thing is that we dont see vb4 suite in full action ,OK thats to bad ,but did they let us down before
same old same old ,only difference's we dont se our goodies for some time

[Aeolian]

That's your opinion. I personally think the look of the new vB looks miles and away better than any of the older versions.

my friend that puts in a sample size of <1% vB owner.

No, you're just being a jerk. Why would you not open a support ticket or email sales directly rather than try to stir up the hornets nest here?

Since you think there have been compromises under the hood, do you plan on doing a code review before you run this live? Or are you really just whining because you want to get your $130 back if you don't like the default style, which is pretty much expected that the end user (that's you) will change.

lets not call names, looking at david's user info i can say he has been here longer then some developers and if he does not like something "now" then there is a good reason for that.
i am not worried about money or refund, but if the end product is something i dont like then i will have to think about it...
i know u can customize the look and what not but i am paying good money for something that should be at least half descent out of the box.