Actual details about VB4 vs. VB3?

[NickCat]

I don't want marketing propoganda, I want to know what's been done to resolve the search issue on large installations... ie mine.

We are currently using Sphinx hacked into our installation because the normal search was just not usable for our site.

I am more than willing to buy the full package site unseen, but I need to know that it will work 100% out of the box and all the search issues of the past have been exterminated.

Is there a thread somewhere, that has all the real details of the enhancements over VB3? The only info I can find is the checkmarked list on the homepage. That's just not enough detail for those of us that need to know if we will be buying the next version to address very specific issues.

So bottom line, are you using Sphinx, or some other new search method that will make it 100% functional on larger sites. And 1-2 minutes for search results, isn't "functional."

[boatdesign]

I'd be very curious about any search enhancements in 4.0.

[NickCat]

I would love to get an answer to these questions.

[NickCat]

I'm fine with bumping this till I can get some sort of answer from the staff/moderation.

I don't want to be argumentative, but it seems strange to have a "Pre-sales Questions" forum when nobody in the actual sales department seems to want to answers questions. However I do understand that there is a storm of crap being posted about the pricing/upgrade/renewal. I'm not here for that, I just want information.

I just need answers so I can make decisions for the future direction of my business. It's not at all strange to require some information about a purchase, especially when my livelihood depends on that decision.

[Ian99]

I do not believe that a feature list has been made.

I also use Sphinx - it certainly makes a big difference to searches.

[NickCat]

imo, vb4 is a refresh done to be saled. That's all. vB now is a money machine, i think that is the main reason most of the old staff leaved.

I wasn't expecting it to be a 100% new product. I just need to know if the problematic aspects that have plagued the software for nearly a decade have finally been dealt with in some regard.

Considering when I was approached by IB for them to purchase my site about 2 years ago I had a very lengthy phone conversation with their CEO Bob Brisco and he said they had a resolution for the search function. So my question is... did they implement that, and if not, where is it?

[fotografik]

Add my voice to this - we run a pretty large board (5.1M posts, 99K members) - and we are very concerned about performance. We have upgraded and tweaked our software/hardware and the boards run very smoothly now but we are of course worried about how VB4 will perform.

Of course, we will be testing VB4 on a dev server with a replica of the database, but that will not give an indication of performance when a couple of thousand of users are online (average about 1,800 at peak, 1,000 offpeak)

Seeing that VB forums themselves have not been updated to VB4 makes me a bit wary.

[ENF]

Seeing that VB forums themselves have not been updated to VB4 makes me a bit wary.

It really does not mean anything. No matter what this site does, you'll need to run your own tests. You should also have a contingency plan should things go awry when launching 4.0 into the face of your users.

The only feature list I've seen is shown at http://www.vbulletin.com -- the back end is still the same, MySQL etc. The code of the actual site has been re-written, so nobody knows! Maybe you should wait for other boards to convert and watch to see how things go.

[NickCat]

To the moderator who removed my bumps, please don't.

I'm running a business and I'm seeking very specific answers that affect that business. I've done nothing to violate site rules, I just need an honest answer to my question so I can plan to either upgrade to 4.0 or seek alternatives.

I just need an answer, then I'll be satisfied.

[Wayne Luke]

vBulletin 4.0 does not use Sphinx. There are technical and legal limitations with including it in the base product. However it has been investigate. The search in vBulletin 4.0 however has been rewritten so that it is more functional for larger sites and includes more cross-content functionality. It is more like and indexed full-text search that works in your existing database without the need for additional software. It allows you to use INNODB on your heavy use tables instead of MyISAM.

In addition to the search system the 4.0 forums include a newer style system that is extendable and supports the new semantic style. A new template diff-merge system will make upgrading with custom templates easier as the system can perform the merges for you when upgrading from 4.0 to 4.X and beyond. Aside from that you will find tweaks and enhancements through the Forum product.

[NickCat]

vBulletin 4.0 does not use Sphinx. There are technical and legal limitations with including it in the base product. However it has been investigate. The search in vBulletin 4.0 however has been rewritten so that it is more functional for larger sites and includes more cross-content functionality. It is more like and indexed full-text search that works in your existing database without the need for additional software. It allows you to use INNODB on your heavy use tables instead of MyISAM.

In addition to the search system the 4.0 forums include a newer style system that is extendable and supports the new semantic style. A new template diff-merge system will make upgrading with custom templates easier as the system can perform the merges for you when upgrading from 4.0 to 4.X and beyond. Aside from that you will find tweaks and enhancements through the Forum product.

Wayne, thank you very much for the reply. I guess I will just have to try an upgrade on a test server to see how the new search handles the site.

[eoc_Jason]

I too have two forums that rely on Sphinx for search. I'm not entirely sure switching to Innodb will really give the final result many are looking for.

The problem with the current vB search is this...

1. User enters a search query
2. Post table is locked against any INSERT/UPDATE (but SELECT are okay)
3. After an INSERT/UPDATE gets in the queue, then all other SELECT's after it get held in queue too...
4. MySQL poops on itself because of the massive backlog while still running the search query.

Most searches happen within seconds, but for some reason a user can enter something in that can take a couple minutes. Do they usually wait that long for a search result? NO... They click the button over and over again, re-running the same query (actually queuing it up several times)...

Sphinx can search and return RELEVANT results in a fraction of a second... No table locking, no high-loads...

I think Sphinx should be an essential OPTIONAL implementation for vB 4... Like using APC or Memcache or other accelerators...

Heck, I would of paid the $200 for vB 4 if Sphinx was the ONLY new feature!

[AlexanderT]

vBulletin 4.0 does not use Sphinx. There are technical and legal limitations with including it in the base product. However it has been investigate.

This is interesting, I haven't heard before that adding Sphinx support is restricted by legal imitations. Wayne, I would appreciate if you could shed some more light on this matter.

Thanks.

[Zachery]

This is interesting, I haven't heard before that adding Sphinx support is restricted by legal imitations. Wayne, I would appreciate if you could shed some more light on this matter.

Thanks.

I believe he means we (the company) would have an possible issue including it in the software package.

[Darkimmortal]

IPB has no problems doing it.