Login and permissions needs work!

[Maury Markowitz]

So I register. Then I return to a forum to make a new post about some installation problems. At the time, I am not logged in (although that's not terribly clear). So after typing my post I get a screen asking me to log in, which I do. At that point I get an error about no forum name being selected, and my post is gone.

When trying to post THIS post, I thought it would best be in the vB2 Problems forum. So I click New Thread and I am told - apparently - that I am not logged in. It says I can fix this by clicking "here" and adding my name to a form. So I try this, but when I do a dialog appears asking me for my name and password. My name and password don't get be beyond this dialog, it appears that I have to get beyond the dialog to provide the information that gets me beyond the dialog.

So:

1) the first issue appears to be an outright bug. Something lost track of where I was during the "quick login" process, and that was that. This should be fixed.

2) it should ask me to log in BEFORE allowing me to type the message!

3) depending on where you are, the WAY you log in changes from a form to pop-up. This is VERY BAD UI. All requests should be handled through a single mechanism somewhere, with the user selecting what form it takes (form or pop-up, or even form in a popped-up window) with a single setting.

4) the complete credentials needed for any particular area should be made more clear. I assume that my problems posting to the vB2 forums are because you need to be an owner? If so, the difference between login levels needs to be much clearer!

Maury

[tubedogg]

1) Your cookie was apparently corrupted or lost. That is not something we can control without asking you to relogin.
2) If you *were* logged in at the time of typing your message but subsequently lost your cookie, there is no way to ask you beforehand to login if you are already logged in.
3) The vBulletin member's area is not part of vBulletin and uses HTACCESS-style authorization for access. It is completely separate and has no bearing on the forums here.
4) On the no-permission screen it states that there are restricted areas of the site only available to vBulletin members. If you are already logged in one would logically assume that is why you have no permission.

If you *are* an owner, you should use your Customer # and Customer Password (as stated on the page that you get if you fail to enter the correct credentials trying to enter the member's area) to enter the member's area and put your name on the form to be allowed to post to the restricted forums.

[Maury Markowitz]

Re: Login and permissions needs work!

Another problem: when I press "quote" on your message, it replies to mine instead. Do I misunderstand the purpose of "quote", or is this a problem?

1) Your cookie was apparently corrupted or lost. That is not something we can control without asking you to relogin.
2) If you *were* logged in at the time of typing your message but subsequently lost your cookie, there is no way to ask you beforehand to login if you are already logged in.

I guess I did not explain myself very well. I don't mind that the system asked me to log in. I mind that it lost my message!

I managed to duplicate the problem again, my first reply to this thread was lost due to the same problem (and it also replied to the wrong message).

The problem is that if the cookie is lost then the system dies when you finally do log in. It replies that no thread is selected, and that's that, your message is gone. THAT is the problem.

I'm also guessing that the reason I'm seeing this is that you're using session cookies instead of perm ones?

3) The vBulletin member's area is not part of vBulletin

That's interesting. I would have thought that the user accounts and permissioning system in vBulletin would have handed a read-only "members area" with ease. What is this other app?

4) On the no-permission screen it states that there are restricted areas of the site only available to vBulletin members.

Well, that and a whole bunch of other things. My complaint here is that the error message is poor. A better message would be something like:

Some of the areas on this system are readable by everyone, but writable only by registered owners of the system. If you are a registered owner and feel you have received this message by mistake, check here. If you are not a registered owner of vBulletin, you cannot post.

If you are already logged in one would logically assume that is why you have no permission.

I don't follow. It would assume I have no permission if I HAVE logged in?

Maury

[Maury Markowitz]

Re: Re: Login and permissions needs work!

And now it's working fine.

OK, so something is wrong with the cookie storage on my other machine I assume. In fact it does appear that the problem happens all the time if I log in while inside hotmail.

What sort of cookie does it use, and what sort of things should I look for that might be "killing" the cookie or not allowing it to be stored?

Maury

[Steve Machol]

Maury, please follow the instructions in the last line of my sig. This is what Kevin was asking you to do. Thanks!

[Maury Markowitz]

Originally posted by smachol
Maury, please follow the instructions in the last line of my sig. This is what Kevin was asking you to do. Thanks!

But I'm not an owner. Do you want me to post in other areas instead?

Maury

[Steve Machol]

Who is the owner? Ask them to click on the link in my sig and enter your user name. This way you can get support in these forums. If he/she doesn't do this, then we can't provide support for you in these forums. We need to have some way to know that you are working with a legal copy of the software.

[Maury Markowitz]

Originally posted by smachol
Who is the owner?

I'm having these problems on this forum right here. I assume it's a legal copy! :-)

Ask them to click on the link in my sig and enter your user name. This way you can get support in these forums.

I don't know how I manage to do this, but every post I make on any system on the internet seems to lead people to thinking that I'm saying something else.

So in hopes that all-caps will make it clearer:

THERE IS A BUG IN VBULLETIN. IF YOU LOSE A COOKIE WHILE TYPING A MESSAGE AND HAVE TO RE-LOGIN, YOU LOSE THE MESSAGE.

Does that explain it?

Maury

[Steve Machol]

Originally posted by Maury Markowitz
THERE IS A BUG IN VBULLETIN. IF YOU LOSE A COOKIE WHILE TYPING A MESSAGE AND HAVE TO RE-LOGIN, YOU LOSE THE MESSAGE.

Sorry I did misunderstand. I thought you were a vB owner/admin looking for support.

However I'm not sure I follow this line of reasoning. How is it a bug in vB if your cookie becomes corrupted when typing a message?

I run two vB forums and I can honestly that no one has ever complained about this problem on my forums. Just out of curiousity, what browser are you using?

[Maury Markowitz]

Originally posted by smachol
Sorry I did misunderstand. I thought you were a vB owner/admin looking for support.

No need to appologize, it's MY post that was confusing. They always are. I need to take a creative writing course or something.

How is it a bug in vB if your cookie becomes corrupted when typing a message?

Ok, I still haven't quite got it. It's not that losing your cookie is the bug.

The bug is that if you do lose it, for whatever reason, vbulletin trashes your message.

I would consider that to be a bug!

I think I even know WHY it happens. I'm guessing, but is the selected forum and/or thread ID put in the message-reply form somewhere? If so, then by re-directing to the login page, that information is lost in the middle of the posting process.

Just out of curiousity, what browser are you using?

IE6

Maury

[Steve Machol]

I think there was a discussion on this very topic several months ago in these forums. I honestly don't know what the technical answer is, but I do think that persons more knowledgeable than me explained that this in an unavoidable consequence of browser activity and not something that can be controlled within vB.

My memory could be wrong however. If I have time I'll see if I can find that thread.

P.S. I'm using IE6 myself.

[Maury Markowitz]

first off, thank you for the super-quick replies.

Originally posted by smachol
I think there was a discussion on this very topic several months ago in these forums. I honestly don't know what the technical answer is, but I do think that persons more knowledgeable than me explained that this in an unavoidable consequence of browser activity and not something that can be controlled within vB.

Oh, I'm sure it is. I think that the "solution" is to put up an error screen though, instead of asking for the login again.

Basically if I need to be logged in to post, that information should be hidden somewhere on the post screen (just a little flag, you need to be logged in, and are). Now if when I hit the post button, and it thinks I'm not logged in, well then, that's an error - something is wrong with the cookies.

My memory could be wrong however. If I have time I'll see if I can find that thread.

Thanks!

P.S. I'm using IE6 myself.

Interesting. It must be some setting inside then.

By the way, what IS the authentication system inside the main forums that tubedogg mentioned? I assume that the system is doing a secondary lookup against a customer database, but I like the way it works. I've always like the pop-up password form better than going to a page inside the main window.

Maury

[tubedogg]

Re: Re: Login and permissions needs work!

Originally posted by Maury Markowitz
3) The vBulletin member's area is not part of vBulletin

That's interesting. I would have thought that the user accounts and permissioning system in vBulletin would have handed a read-only "members area" with ease. What is this other app?

You can do what you suggest however the vBulletin Member's Area is, again, completely separate from this forum. It is not a board and is not the restricted areas mentioned in the vBulletin error message. It is the location where owners download vBulletin among other things.

It uses PHP's auth functions to popup the box.