Hi,
As title, I just wanted to post some feedback, in the form of thoughts and observation as a fairly well seasoned vBulletin user. I guess I should put in black and white right from the start that this isn't just a mindless flame, alas given the state of some (fairly basic) things, it might read that way in passages. Bear with me; my intentions are honourable.
So, I'm compelled to write by the notification in the news panel in my Admin Control Panel displaying an item about the new iPhone app. OK, hard-helmets on? Here comes the first salvo... I fully realise that the news item does say that it's the first version of the app, and it's "available for testing" - of course that could well mean that in later versions there might be, well we'll say 'extended functionality' for now. However, the release in itself, and in particular its timing, is perhaps a good example of a 'frustration' I'd wager I'm not alone in feeling.
There are some pretty fair, if a little blunt, criticisms levelled at the app in the iTunes comments; and I dare say EVERY vBulletin-powered forum Admin who has read the description of the app has had the same couple of thoughts cross their mind. They go something like this:
(1) - Just before clicking the link from the ACP news item:
"Cool, an iPhone app." in my case, because I'd logged-in to troubleshoot problems and deal with spammers, that was extended by: "OK, maybe this is a little silver lining to go around the cloud".
(2) - Immediately after reading the description of the app. on iTunes:
"WTF? vB4 is still a bit of a collection of (security) holes tied together with bugs and a load of php/css which is a best a bit of a nightmare; and someone either at, or contracted/endorsed by vBulletin Solutions has gone to the effort of making an iPhone app. for vBulletin.com EDIT: I've just tripped over the information that it's possible to test with other forums too, but the functionality is less at question; it's more the expenditure of resources and commitment to already outstanding issues.
I honestly think an awful lot of admins will have thought something along the lines of (2) above. As stated previously, I appreciate that maybe (praying to any ethereal deity of your choice) this very app. might be set to evolve some extended functionality but it might've been better just to test this puppy in-house and under-wraps for a while.
So that last sentence was of course my impression of it, but I'll just pull in some numbers to add some substance to the mix...
As I write this, the Bug Tracker for vBulletin 4 on this very site reports unresolved issues as follows:
Showstopper: 1
Critical: 21
Major: 354
Minor: 1300
Trivial: 797
The total number of unresolved issues is 2473. For those of you who prefer the weight of the words, that's two thousand, four hundred, and seventy-three.
There's also a 30 day summary of action in the combat theatre which is the 'War on BugsĀ®". Again, as I write, the figures stack up that 322 have been resolved (good times), but a further 313 have been created (bad times). I realise that these levels will fluctuate (and therefore so will the total number of open bugs), but the current figures are exactly that; current.
I'm afraid I'm no mathmatician, but I couldn't help looking at those numbers and quickly realising the broad implications those numbers have.
Taking 30 days to be an average 'month', well figure out how far the front-line moved in the last month. The forces of good, fighting for honour and democracy but crucially freedom of speech on vBulletin 4 powered communities, killed 322 bugs, but the baddies managed to send in 313 reinforcements.
322 - 313 = Net over the month, the good guys took out 9 of their enemy's total number.
Now, one very basic, but as much beautifully simple projection can be done, now we know the total number of bugs, versus how many get splatted in a month.
2473 bugs, divided by 9 'resolved' per month = 274.77 months. That's not all that far off 23 years more combat before this war is won; at present rate.
Of course I realise that as time goes on, the likelihood is that the net rate of reduction in total bugs unresolved in vB4 will increase; as unless all the new patched/upgraded/rewritten code released in updates is as wobbly as that which it replaces, those bits will hopefully not break again, and so less new bugs will be found. However, a net reduction of 9 is still a long way from 313 created so it would appear that maybe there's a fair way still to go before the numbers converge and the trend changes to there being an enormous number of bugs resolved and an almost negligible (in comparison) number of new bugs opened.
I'm sure there are finer numbers at vBulletin Solutions HQ which would probably lend themselves to more accurate predections, and of course I'm presenting this in a rather raw fashion, but regardless of whether vB4 takes 23 years to fix, or a fraction of that time (23 months? that still sounds pretty far off actually), the situation is that probably all the numbers show that vB4 still isn't in tip top shape.
So, with all that in mind, the comments about the shiny-new and useless as an ashtray on a motorbike iPhone app. on its iTunes page, and indeed the thoughts I had are probably pretty understandable.
Even when all the bugs are zapped, there are probably still some ways the hands at vBulletin towers could be lent to their customers which would doubtless do miraculous work in reducing the instance of premature baldness in individuals operating vB4 forums.
Take for example the php & css that does the business of making dull database records appear in a pretty, navigable and all-round human-friendly fashion. We all appreciate that because vBulletin has evolved such a broad range of functionality, this stuff is always going to be pretty complicated, that's the way it goes. You could't go to the Moon with a big firework and a jumped-up digital watch; oh wait.
Anyway, the code's complicated; it'd be nice if it were slimmer, perhaps better organised, more uniform to work with; but it is what it is. The other consideration of course is that it's constantly changing at the moment, which would make those ideals yet more difficult to achieve. ...However, what it also means is that we're doing an awful lot of upgrading and patching our forums at the moment; and that in turn that means there are often changes to templates etc. which need addition attention with styles etc.
...And that in turn means that means there are a lot of Admins scrabbling around for updated versions of styles for their forums, or having to make the necessary changes to the code themselves - and whether you're an expert and confident enough to tackle the task, or a complete novice who just wants to get things looking right and working as they should again, you're probably going to have at least some head-scratching to do. In my case I've got a 1" deep indentation in my head from scratching it so much, of course there will be better, and worse off, than me.
Further flexibility in the human-verification and spam-interception tools which can be deployed in vB would be great too; and of course spam is a war entirely of itself; which Admins, and vB coders have been fighting for years. Being able to deploy a greater number of the tools and methods available in flexible configurations 'out of the box' would be something to behold. Of course there are hacks and mods one can install to bolster things, but often with mixed results. TBH, if it'll stop spam, I'm prepared to have all kinds of Q&A, comprehension and logic stuff alongside a RECAPTCHA on my registrations; but out of the box, I can deploy two methods side by side. I thought we learned about this stuff in vB3.
OK, I think I've probably written quite enough for now; and again, I promise this isn't just a scathing flame-attack, I just wanted to spend time to document more clearly than is normally some observations, theories and musings on the state of the union, so to speak.
I'm sure the iPhone app. is the bee's knees, the dog's danglies, A1 shizz. It's just I'm equally sure the overwhelming majority of admins would prefer vB4 to be relieved of bugs to a more acceptable level, less stressful when migrating user-experience/look & feel elements to fixed/upgraded versions, and more resilient to spam before an iPhone app. comes along.
And hell, I won't name it (so as to hopefully affirm that this post isn't a giant and unlikely marketing text from its maker), but there's a dual-platform app. out there which works well for the rest of us, and I'd rather spend $2.99 if I was so desperate to have a mobile-focused way to browse the vBulletin.com forums, and have resources freed for fixing problems and brightening the future.
With sincere and best regards,
ASN Administrator
As title, I just wanted to post some feedback, in the form of thoughts and observation as a fairly well seasoned vBulletin user. I guess I should put in black and white right from the start that this isn't just a mindless flame, alas given the state of some (fairly basic) things, it might read that way in passages. Bear with me; my intentions are honourable.
So, I'm compelled to write by the notification in the news panel in my Admin Control Panel displaying an item about the new iPhone app. OK, hard-helmets on? Here comes the first salvo... I fully realise that the news item does say that it's the first version of the app, and it's "available for testing" - of course that could well mean that in later versions there might be, well we'll say 'extended functionality' for now. However, the release in itself, and in particular its timing, is perhaps a good example of a 'frustration' I'd wager I'm not alone in feeling.
There are some pretty fair, if a little blunt, criticisms levelled at the app in the iTunes comments; and I dare say EVERY vBulletin-powered forum Admin who has read the description of the app has had the same couple of thoughts cross their mind. They go something like this:
(1) - Just before clicking the link from the ACP news item:
"Cool, an iPhone app." in my case, because I'd logged-in to troubleshoot problems and deal with spammers, that was extended by: "OK, maybe this is a little silver lining to go around the cloud".
(2) - Immediately after reading the description of the app. on iTunes:
"WTF? vB4 is still a bit of a collection of (security) holes tied together with bugs and a load of php/css which is a best a bit of a nightmare; and someone either at, or contracted/endorsed by vBulletin Solutions has gone to the effort of making an iPhone app. for vBulletin.com EDIT: I've just tripped over the information that it's possible to test with other forums too, but the functionality is less at question; it's more the expenditure of resources and commitment to already outstanding issues.
I honestly think an awful lot of admins will have thought something along the lines of (2) above. As stated previously, I appreciate that maybe (praying to any ethereal deity of your choice) this very app. might be set to evolve some extended functionality but it might've been better just to test this puppy in-house and under-wraps for a while.
So that last sentence was of course my impression of it, but I'll just pull in some numbers to add some substance to the mix...
As I write this, the Bug Tracker for vBulletin 4 on this very site reports unresolved issues as follows:
Showstopper: 1
Critical: 21
Major: 354
Minor: 1300
Trivial: 797
The total number of unresolved issues is 2473. For those of you who prefer the weight of the words, that's two thousand, four hundred, and seventy-three.
There's also a 30 day summary of action in the combat theatre which is the 'War on BugsĀ®". Again, as I write, the figures stack up that 322 have been resolved (good times), but a further 313 have been created (bad times). I realise that these levels will fluctuate (and therefore so will the total number of open bugs), but the current figures are exactly that; current.
I'm afraid I'm no mathmatician, but I couldn't help looking at those numbers and quickly realising the broad implications those numbers have.
Taking 30 days to be an average 'month', well figure out how far the front-line moved in the last month. The forces of good, fighting for honour and democracy but crucially freedom of speech on vBulletin 4 powered communities, killed 322 bugs, but the baddies managed to send in 313 reinforcements.
322 - 313 = Net over the month, the good guys took out 9 of their enemy's total number.
Now, one very basic, but as much beautifully simple projection can be done, now we know the total number of bugs, versus how many get splatted in a month.
2473 bugs, divided by 9 'resolved' per month = 274.77 months. That's not all that far off 23 years more combat before this war is won; at present rate.
Of course I realise that as time goes on, the likelihood is that the net rate of reduction in total bugs unresolved in vB4 will increase; as unless all the new patched/upgraded/rewritten code released in updates is as wobbly as that which it replaces, those bits will hopefully not break again, and so less new bugs will be found. However, a net reduction of 9 is still a long way from 313 created so it would appear that maybe there's a fair way still to go before the numbers converge and the trend changes to there being an enormous number of bugs resolved and an almost negligible (in comparison) number of new bugs opened.
I'm sure there are finer numbers at vBulletin Solutions HQ which would probably lend themselves to more accurate predections, and of course I'm presenting this in a rather raw fashion, but regardless of whether vB4 takes 23 years to fix, or a fraction of that time (23 months? that still sounds pretty far off actually), the situation is that probably all the numbers show that vB4 still isn't in tip top shape.
So, with all that in mind, the comments about the shiny-new and useless as an ashtray on a motorbike iPhone app. on its iTunes page, and indeed the thoughts I had are probably pretty understandable.
Even when all the bugs are zapped, there are probably still some ways the hands at vBulletin towers could be lent to their customers which would doubtless do miraculous work in reducing the instance of premature baldness in individuals operating vB4 forums.
Take for example the php & css that does the business of making dull database records appear in a pretty, navigable and all-round human-friendly fashion. We all appreciate that because vBulletin has evolved such a broad range of functionality, this stuff is always going to be pretty complicated, that's the way it goes. You could't go to the Moon with a big firework and a jumped-up digital watch; oh wait.
Anyway, the code's complicated; it'd be nice if it were slimmer, perhaps better organised, more uniform to work with; but it is what it is. The other consideration of course is that it's constantly changing at the moment, which would make those ideals yet more difficult to achieve. ...However, what it also means is that we're doing an awful lot of upgrading and patching our forums at the moment; and that in turn that means there are often changes to templates etc. which need addition attention with styles etc.
...And that in turn means that means there are a lot of Admins scrabbling around for updated versions of styles for their forums, or having to make the necessary changes to the code themselves - and whether you're an expert and confident enough to tackle the task, or a complete novice who just wants to get things looking right and working as they should again, you're probably going to have at least some head-scratching to do. In my case I've got a 1" deep indentation in my head from scratching it so much, of course there will be better, and worse off, than me.
Further flexibility in the human-verification and spam-interception tools which can be deployed in vB would be great too; and of course spam is a war entirely of itself; which Admins, and vB coders have been fighting for years. Being able to deploy a greater number of the tools and methods available in flexible configurations 'out of the box' would be something to behold. Of course there are hacks and mods one can install to bolster things, but often with mixed results. TBH, if it'll stop spam, I'm prepared to have all kinds of Q&A, comprehension and logic stuff alongside a RECAPTCHA on my registrations; but out of the box, I can deploy two methods side by side. I thought we learned about this stuff in vB3.
OK, I think I've probably written quite enough for now; and again, I promise this isn't just a scathing flame-attack, I just wanted to spend time to document more clearly than is normally some observations, theories and musings on the state of the union, so to speak.
I'm sure the iPhone app. is the bee's knees, the dog's danglies, A1 shizz. It's just I'm equally sure the overwhelming majority of admins would prefer vB4 to be relieved of bugs to a more acceptable level, less stressful when migrating user-experience/look & feel elements to fixed/upgraded versions, and more resilient to spam before an iPhone app. comes along.
And hell, I won't name it (so as to hopefully affirm that this post isn't a giant and unlikely marketing text from its maker), but there's a dual-platform app. out there which works well for the rest of us, and I'd rather spend $2.99 if I was so desperate to have a mobile-focused way to browse the vBulletin.com forums, and have resources freed for fixing problems and brightening the future.
With sincere and best regards,
ASN Administrator
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