vBulletin v W3T .. which is best?

[Jez Quigley]

My short list is vBulletin & W3T .. the latter seems to be faster than vBulletin .. i.e the W3T forum is VERY much faster than this forum (which I find slow .. sorry)

Maybe there's a reason for this. My connection is good (on all other sites) my own server is located in the USA ( I am in the UK) & its fast!.

I have posted this same message on the W3T forum & got many responses .. they have got a load of very enthusiastic users

Who here can help & guide me?

Is vBulletin better?

[werehere]

[quote]"Is vBulletin better?"[/quote]

Since this is the only question I see you have listed, my answer is yes. :)

[werehere]

I also forgot to tell you to use the search feature on this forum. Try searching for W3T! I did, and it came up with many discussions that have probably already answered your questions.

[shashi]

Hi Jez,
I had actually bought w3t even thought it is in perl, and I had decided to go php way.

1. w3t is indeed faster for one reason, it is nicely optimised. It doesn't do those 250 queries per page that vb does. vb does that because it store everything in the database, from "category bg color" to "showthreadbit"
It is not optimised even the slightest so it does 20 queries for 20 templates evenin the SAME script.

the good point is you can customise your vb via web, but for w3t you have to be logged in your server via telnet or ssh


2. w3t allows some good features like a user can be in multiple groups, private messaging is really nicely handled and polls are also integrated.

The pro for vb is this.The next version is hopefully going to be database optimized. The next version is also promising private messaging and polls.

The greatest factor from my viewpoint is this (if you ever grow big, if your forums remain small then this is not an issue): for best performance you should have php (for vb) as an apache module and perl (for w3t) as an apache module. Perl is a full blown language, much more than just for web and db, and its apache module it much larger than PHP's.
i.e. the httpd process that runs is much larger if you have mod_perl isntalled than if you have mod_php installed. This translates directly to how many users you can handle simultaneously.

3. The other minor thing is that w3t allows you unlimited installs under the same doamin, so you can actually have multiple installs and lease them out to customer if you like. w3t also doesn't require you to have their name show up your forums in copyright notice or anything like that.

4. both of these boards suffer from the same problem of using category NUMBERS instead of category NAMES. Using numbers tells teh surfer what else categories that I might want hidden e.g. http:/.....?cat=1,5,6,7,20 tells teh user that there are otehr categories 2, 3, 4 8, .. to try and see. instead like boards have names, categories should have names, and should be displayed NOT in order of their number but in order of the listing in the url, so if i say http:/....?cat=3,1,10,7 it should list them in that order!

5. vb is not threaded. they claim it is a good thing but that should be for the user to decide.

6. vb doesn't have file uploads with the posts. could be a bad thing if you want to allow users to upload their hacks for example!! or their pictures from tha vacation!! (Am I wrong on this one? Does vb allow file upalods?)

These are the few things that spring to mind, there are surely more.

But all in all vb is great for its programming feat, all customizable stuff! But that is not all for a big site. Hopefully the next version coming someitme in the future will be more thoughtfully programmed :-)) I must say, though, I have decided to use vb for main forums on more important sites, hoping that the new version will be out soon, that upgrade will not be a pain, and that code imporvements will be a priority as well as a few importan features like file upload. I would do the hacks but I hate to reapply them after upgrades etc. These are programming nightmares-- merging code version trees!!

Thanks

[Freddie Bingham]

I do agree John needs to re-think storing every bit of data in the database.

Templates do not need to be in the database

The forum "options" do not need to be stored in the database.

[wajones]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shashi [/i]
[B]3. The other minor thing is that w3t allows you unlimited installs under the same doamin, so you can actually have multiple installs and lease them out to customer if you like. w3t also doesn't require you to have their name show up your forums in copyright notice or anything like that.
[/B][/QUOTE]


While you may have multiple installs with w3t on one domain... Playing the devils advocate here, trying to run multiple instances of w3t or vB on the same domain/server would or could be disastrous if you want a robust forum. From what I have seen from my observations is that medium large forums in both cases require at the minimum semi-dedicated servers and dedicated for large forums to be efficient.

Quoting a portion of w3t’s license “ To run WWWThreads under multiple domains or sub domains you will need to purchase a separate copy/license for each domain or sub domain” So by my understanding you would have to purchase additional license at $200 a pop, after all how could you lease out the same domain to multiple individuals, you would require a sub domain. The co-branding option of the next vB release is going to be a much better method, (depending on how your allowed to use it) while it will still be hard on the server, it shouldn’t be as bad as multiple instances.

[shashi]

There is yet another board called "wagora" check out zend.com and look for applications -> forums.
wagora stores all options in flat files, allows multiple SITES under the same installation, then each site can have multiple forums. It allows file uploads, some templates like slashdot style, UBB style etc. and is threaded, in php uses mysql and is pretty nice.

The only thing that scared me is it has exactly ONE database file per SITE!!! Doesn'e have a concept of registered user. It is more for a news forum kind of program.

[shashi]

Wajones,
There is one line just before the one you quoted in w3t license. Here is teh excerpt:


"By purchasing a license for WWWThreads Pro you may have an unlimited number of instances on the software for a single domain. If you plan on running WWWThreads under multiple domains or subdomains then you must by additional licenses for each domain or subdomain. "

So, what you can do is have multiple installations under the SAME domain. [url]http://xyz.com/forum1[/url], xyz.com/forum2 etc etc
And then lease or rent (or charge for) these out. just like people rnt out web space.

It is a minor deal but maybe helpful to some.

And of course I am assuming dedicated server. Any serious web endeavour better be dedicated or better yet colocated server with full control. Any forum that is big enough to have performance issues, deserves a server of its own! :-)) And if it is big, a separate server is as cheap as $100 bucks a month at many ISPs! I guess ad revenuves from one busy forum will take care of that!! :-)

[wajones]

Seems to me that if one wanted to pursue a certain subject that one would be better served by going to the source.
Not trying to offend anyone, but have you ever tried converting a Chevi guy to Ford! Give it up, they don't budge.
It all amounts to curb appeal, if it runs that's a bonus!!! and vB has curb appear... You can change the tires and rims at will, new paint job, etc... The bonus is that it does run and their working on making it run better.
I know it won't help, but I suggest that all wanting info about other boards go to their forums...

Be constructive... not distructive!

[shashi]

wajones,
I appreciate your love of vb, I love it too, that is why I bought a full license EVEN after I bought w3t just within the week!!

But, contrary to your hurt feelings, it does good to all parties involved to compare and shop and prod creators of the softwares to include more features etc etc.

One thing I don't understand on any of the forums, people worship their "pet" brand of software more than their gods or parents or kids !!!! Why this apprehension of any competition, even if healthy?

And for all that matters, anyone can go to zend.com for all the PHP goodies, and see all competitors !!! right in one place!! So much for trying to change camps :-)))

I like vb's customizability, but I would pay a grand a peice to just get my features and DB customization, for I don't want to have a busy forum that needs to be one a 20 grand server for no other reason than poorly coded queries etc that need a gig of ram !! (of course I am exxagerating a bit but you get the drift)

As for the curb appeal it is good for you and your date, but not if you are in the bussiness of public transportation and trying to carry 40 people across town and 50 times a day!!!! ( e.g. public bus) :-))


regards

[wajones]

Shashi

No hurt feelings, most of us do look around, I in fact have a copy of just about every forum/news/database program out there, frequent stops to ZEND, Hot scripts and countless others... Hot Scripts now has a review section in addition to the rating function, I do believe in constructive suggestions and by no means want (or have the right, I'm just a guest on this forum) to discourage you or anyone else to post anything the Forum moderators approve.
I just come to vB forums to see whats up with vB, not other products. No hurt feelings, no intention to hurt anyone's feelings.

Beside's I'm only here... and only speak for myself, everyone has a right to their own opinion.


Wish you well...

[poil11]

i feel that for small to midsized sites wwwthreads is perfect. for midsized to large sites i recomend wwwthreads or vbulletin. if you don't have a dedicated server i would recomend wwwthreads. and that is what i say.

[JimF]

I prefer vBulletin, and I'm a small site on a shared server, mind you, because it lokks nice. :) That is what I say.

-jim

[wajones]

Cool wheels...

[Jez Quigley]

Thanks to all of you that have responded .. one thing is very clear .. both vB & W3T are VERY popular .. each having its own enthusiastic user base.

From my point of view .. I am not, what we Brits call an "Anorak" (maybe you yanks would say "Nerd") and so I am not into re-coding or applying hacks etc. This of course weighs heavy on the overall decision of choice since; for me I'd need something thats "reasonably easy to modify / change.

Shashi says:-

"the good point is you can customise your vb via web, but for w3t you have to be logged in your server via telnet or ssh "

Now that in its own right is enough to put me off W3T .... OK I do run my own dedicated server (not ecstatic about doing the Telnet thing !) .. however If I can do mods via a Browser .. then this is much more flexbile .. since I can do these mods from any PC with an internet connection. Right?

(BTW .. just on the side .. one NICE feature of W3T is the way you reply to a thread .. "you can insert quotes" etc from previous threads very easily .. not quite sure how to do it here .. thus my lame effort above! You can also Spell Check your reply / post!)

Shashi also said:-

"So, what you can do is have multiple installations under the SAME domain. [url]http://xyz.com/forum1[/url], xyz.com/forum2 etc etc
And then lease or rent (or charge for) these out. just like people rnt out web space.

It is a minor deal but maybe helpful to some"

In fact this a major consideration for my customer .. wants to run a Forum for a business with 30 branches .. each wanting its own independant Forum (rivalry I guess!)

Private Messaging & Polls are also a cool feature of W3T ....whereas most W3T forums look "messy" when compared to even your average vB forum ... certainly from a "looks / appearance" point of view vB is tops .. and make no mistake .. a newbie coming to a vB forum would (IMHO) find the overall presentation welcoming .. whereas some others are decidedly .. unwelcoming & a bit of a "mish mash"

Anyway guys thanks for your help .. I still havent made my mind up fully.

I am sure its mentioned somewhere else .. but .. are there plans to introduce Private Messaging & Polling into vB? If yes .. when?

[EDIT]

Not sure if what I said about "quotes" being easier in W3T is actually corect .. I think the forum that I used that on was heavily "hacked" .. non standard!

Thanks







[Edited by Jez Quigley on 10-17-2000 at 08:35 AM]