The mod community will embrace vB5 Connect.

[Trevor Hannant]

Look around at the staff comments. I've seen a lot of comments pointing people away to a mod because this or that is not included in vB5. Nothing wrong with that, it's just not like it use to be where staff would advise against modding vB because of support.

I'm asking you for specific functionality that's been left out of vB5 that staff are directing customers to vbulletin.org for.

[Deimos]

What bothers me, is several professional coders say the code is awful, yet DByte, who I consider a professional coder as well, seems to be saying opposite.

So I can only assume that his statement was made, because his entire website is devoted to VB themes and plugins.

He probably fears for the future of VB5, thus makes said statement to try and guarantee his sales for the future, as his opinion on such things MUST have an effect on potential VB5 customers.

[Wayne Luke]

What bothers me, is several professional coders say the code is awful, yet DByte, who I consider a professional coder as well, seems to be saying opposite.

So I can only assume that his statement was made, because his entire website is devoted to VB themes and plugins.

He probably fears for the future of VB5, thus makes said statement to try and guarantee his sales for the future, as his opinion on such things MUST have an effect on potential VB5 customers.

Dragonbyte Tech has also been working with the code for several months.

[Ramsesx]

Given that Shawn runs one of the biggest forum out on earth, his countless contributions to vBulletin in the tracker and especially the code improvements based on his suggestions in vB4, his meaning about code quality is beyond any doubt. Just my 2 cents.

[soniceffect]

Given that Shawn runs one of the biggest forum out on earth, his countless contributions to vBulletin in the tracker and especially the code improvements based on his suggestions in vB4, his meaning about code quality is beyond any doubt. Just my 2 cents.

Running the biggest forum? Lol. That was really not one to put out there to explain someones dev expertise.

[beishe8]

Actually the crappier vB5 is, the more room they got to play with.

vb5_connect_5-0-0_Beta_14_VBFC67C456\vb5readme.html

There is no place for my users to purchase Paid SubscriptionsPaid Subscirptions are not supported in vBulletin 5.
They will return in a future version.

What happened to the CMS and all my articles?
The CMS/Article System is not support in vBulletin 5.0. It will return in a future version. Your articles are being kept safe in a hidden channel and will return when the CMS is released.

Where is the infraction system?
The infraction system is not supported in vBulletin 5.0. It will return in a future version.

Where is the FAQ system?
The FAQ System is not supported in vBulletin 5.0. It will return in a future version.

Where is the Member's List?
There is no member's list in vBulletin 5.

I was in the AdminCp and received an error message.
A number of features in the Admin CP no longer work. These can return error message. Open a Support Topic for further assistance.

How do I turn off Blogs, Social Groups, Albums?
The short answer is that you cannot do this. However you can set permissions so that end users cannot see these features. Please open a forum thread for assistance in doing this.

How do I remove the Activity Stream?
You can't however you can disable the specific tab, rearrange the tabs and change the default tab. Please see the support forums for assistance.

DragonByte's CMS for vB5
DragonByte's Improved Editor for vB5
DragonByte's Improved Activity Feed for vB5
DragonByte's Last Unread Post for vB5
DragonByte's Calendar and Events for vB5
DragonByte's Paid Subscriptions System for vB5

etc, etc, etc....

[DragonByte Tech]

Hey, Fillip / Belazor from DragonByte Tech here

I'll address a couple of the points brought up in this thread, and I'll try to semi-monitor it until it dies down to answer any further questions you may have.

What bothers me, is several professional coders say the code is awful, yet DByte, who I consider a professional coder as well, seems to be saying opposite.

So I can only assume that his statement was made, because his entire website is devoted to VB themes and plugins.

He probably fears for the future of VB5, thus makes said statement to try and guarantee his sales for the future, as his opinion on such things MUST have an effect on potential VB5 customers.

Hardly.

If we were that unsure about vB5, we'd probably just keep it on the down-low and only individually address customers who had questions / concerns about it.

The DragonByte Team would be stupid to call vB5 bad, because it is a perfect breeding ground for their vB add-on business.

I know it's not how you intended it, but our team is more than capable of picking up another forum software

We did try to develop for xenForo, but due to the fact that development of xF has ground to a halt, and we find codebase less plugin-friendly than vB5 (please don't take this as an official company-sanctioned comparison :P), we decided to scale back development on it.

Let me give you a rough example of coding for vB vs coding for xF. Let's say you want to add a custom page that runs your custom code.

xF:
1. Create a route prefix in the admincp (~5 form elements)
2. Create a controller handler (~5 form elements) in the admincp that refers from the route prefix
3. Create a controller handler file in the filesystem (partially copy-pastable) that handles the actions and tells xF what template to render
4. Create the template in the AdminCP and edit it
5. Edit the controller file / template as needed

vB5:
1. Create a route in the mod's installer code
2. Create a widget and edit its template how you like
3. Create an API file in the filesystem and add code as needed


TL;DR / non-technical: We find it easier to create an addon for vB5 than it is to create an addon for xF.

And I do believe Iain is bound by an NDA, so nothing negative about vB5 can come from him anyway (and why I believe a "don't call us crap at any time" clause in an NDA is rubbish, because the truth will come out anyway). Shawn from Digitalpoint and the other "negative" coder critics on the other hand, are not bound by an NDA. So, who is more believable?

Iain's going to, or have, handled this bit, but I'd just like to point out that the things you saw in IceWolf's post? The enthusiasm and joy I tried to convey when it came to the things I'm able to do that I couldn't on vB3 and vB4?

That's all genuine.

We have run into issues, and we even mention when there are issues in the way of us doing certain features of a mod, or that will prevent us from making a certain mod - by no means do we hide that. What we will point out is that, in our opinion, the good far outweighs the bad. As someone else mentioned in the thread it's extremely easy to take any code and rip it to shreds. We could do that with the vB5 code. We could do it with the vB4 or vB3 code, too. We could do it with the xF code as well. We don't see the point in doing that. When there is so much to be positive about, why focus on the negative?

I honestly am having a good time developing for vB, it feels like a new software yet still familiar enough that I'm not scared off. I can't and never claimed to speak for anyone else, but the thoughts I posted in the quoted blog entry and in this post are my honest-to-<deity of your choice> thoughts. I hope you don't choose to disregard them because they clash with someone else's, someone who might have a different perspective altogether.

I'm not familiar with Shawn's complaints regarding vB5, but I bet he has a different perspective than DBTech due to being in a different situation than us (whatever that situation might be). He might not care about the things I personally care about. I don't understand why it has to be black or white, why it's either "Shawn is right, vB5 is the worst thing on the internet" or "DBTech is right, vB5 is sliced bread made of beautiful women" (ignoring the fact we never tried to say vB5 was the greatest thing of all time ).


I hope I've not been too incoherent here, and I welcome any questions or comments


Fillip

- - - Updated - - -

First off, for the sake of accuracy; DragonByte Tech isn't a "he" - it's a group of 7 coders and a few non-coders (including myself, Iain).

Of course there are issues with vB5 as it is just now - I don't think we've ever called the code perfect. That being said, we've been extremely impressed by the effort the team are putting in to resolve any issues we and others bring up. We have been working with the code for many weeks now, and have noticed huge improvements in that time - improvements that make us extremely optimistic for vB5 going forward.

My understanding regarding the terms of the NDA is that it applied during the testing period only. As we have purchased our own licenses since then, we would be within our rights to speak negatively of the existing vB5 product if we so wanted. Obviously that's not the case. As it is, we've been working with the code for a long time now and are very optimistic about it, we've seen it evolve and improve over the past months. Our opinions are coloured by THAT - Not just where the product is just now, but our confidence in where it is GOING.


Iain

[hornstar6969]

Great post Iain and Fillip. vBulletin is lucky to have DragonByte Tech. My community enjoys several dbtech mods mods, and I too am looking forward to what vb5 will offer in the coming months.

[Ramsesx]

Running the biggest forum? Lol. That was really not one to put out there to explain someones dev expertise.

Where have you been the last 3 years? Just read and understand what I've written.

[soniceffect]

Where have you been the last 3 years? Just read and understand what I've written.

Hey i have no doubt whatsoever of the credentials. What i was disputing was that someone owning the largest forum is bad reasoning for them being that way lol. Someone with no coding experience anf and expert in marketing can build and extremely large forum.

Just for the record im fully aware of shawns expertise im just also fully aware he isnt the only expert in php

[AlexanderT]

Just for the record im fully aware of scotts expertise im just also fully aware he isnt the only expert in php

And the question of the day is: Who is Scott?

[soniceffect]

And the question of the day is: Who is Scott?

Four posts up, but will let you off as its early in the week


EDIT: My bad .... Did say it was early in the week though... Im losin the plot LOL

[iyama]

Maybe has Dragon a free vb5 license from vb?
And is there a interest of 10% of all he sales to members?

Like FaceB is paying vb.

[ThemeBone]

Maybe has Dragon a free vb5 license from vb?
And is there a interest of 10% of all he sales to members?

Like FaceB is paying vb.

I trully believe that they could afford to by 100 licenses by THEMSELF.

[Trevor Hannant]

Maybe has Dragon a free vb5 license from vb?
And is there a interest of 10% of all he sales to members?

Like FaceB is paying vb.

huh?