vB5 license agreement?

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  • OhioDave
    Banned
    • Jul 2012
    • 244

    #16
    Thanks, that thread really didn't answer much before getting locked. If anything it's left more questions...

    1. Was there ever an update from Trevor regarding the fee to change domain names? (see post #34 & 35)
    2. Are vBulletin 5 licenses transferable? I see it says vB4 are, but it makes no mention of vBulletin 5 licenses being transferable except in the License Agreement which seems to prohibit it.
    3. For EU customers who buy second hand, are they stuck at the current version they recieve when accepting the license agreement, unless the pay an additional fee to access upgrades? (See post #42)

    It seems there are a lot of errors (and omissions/additions that shouldn't be there/wrong language) in the new license agreement or is vBulletin solutions really cracking down on these things?

    This is a serious question, is there no one that over looks any of this stuff before it gets posted/demo'd? This all just seems so sloppy to me.

    Comment

    • Wayne Luke
      vBulletin Technical Support Lead
      • Aug 2000
      • 73979

      #17
      1) No fee for domain changes. That has been answered.

      2) Currently we have not made any announcements changing license transfers. Only EU customers can transfer 5.X licenses. There is a $45.00 fee due before license transfer occurs.

      3) They aren't locked into a specific version. They get access to all versions of vBulletin 5 just like everyone else.
      Last edited by Wayne Luke; Wed 3 Oct '12, 7:57am.
      Translations provided by Google.

      Wayne Luke
      The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
      vBulletin 5 API

      Comment

      • OhioDave
        Banned
        • Jul 2012
        • 244

        #18
        Thank you wayne, that clears a lot up!

        Comment

        • Zylantex
          Member
          • Jan 2011
          • 32
          • 4.2.x

          #19
          Originally posted by Wayne Luke
          Only EU customers can transfer 5.X licenses. There is a $45.00 fee due before license transfer occurs.
          Isn't that an excessive charge? I put it to you that you are trying to deny EU customers their legal rights by charging an exorbitant fee.

          Comment

          • Deimos
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2002
            • 1517
            • 3.8.x

            #20
            $45 to transfer a license...oh wow.
            I could understand $19/20, but $45?

            Comment

            • mudmanc4
              New Member
              • Mar 2010
              • 26
              • 4.1.x

              #21
              How far this product has fallen is simply astounding. I watch year after year as not only the software declines in usability, but becomes more and more 'scattered' in usability.
              So wrangle customers with a fee if they want to toss the software in the attempt to 'keep' them ?
              Why not use coding to automate the license changes. Or is that not logical.

              Comment

              • Wayne Luke
                vBulletin Technical Support Lead
                • Aug 2000
                • 73979

                #22
                Originally posted by mudmanc4
                Why not use coding to automate the license changes. Or is that not logical.
                We've tried that in the past. Only led to fraud and license theft. Even today.

                You'd be surprised at how many people cannot secure their computer or their web-based email accounts. Sometimes it seems like almost 50% of customers have been compromised by a trojan, work, and webmail hacking.
                Translations provided by Google.

                Wayne Luke
                The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                vBulletin 5 API

                Comment

                • mudmanc4
                  New Member
                  • Mar 2010
                  • 26
                  • 4.1.x

                  #23
                  I'm sorry, but blaming end users of your software for devs not being capable of deciphering fraud with their own code. And standing up for and excusing such outlandish license changes are just silly imo. Which take maybe 5 minutes, if you have a million customers changing their license every 6 months, this is a one man job, and proves something is seriously wrong if so many people are ditching the software.

                  Wow, sounds like what Rome did to try and keep people from fleeing the city.
                  Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                  We've tried that in the past. Only led to fraud and license theft. Even today.

                  You'd be surprised at how many people cannot secure their computer or their web-based email accounts. Sometimes it seems like almost 50% of customers have been compromised by a trojan, work, and webmail hacking.

                  Comment

                  • Lawrence Cole
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2011
                    • 923

                    #24
                    Originally posted by OhioDave
                    Thank you, that is the information I was looking for.

                    I'm not sure if anyone would be able to answer this, but I'm getting ready to test upgrade vB 5 for a clients site, does this put me under the license agreement. More specifically the part thats in the bold:


                    as I dont want to be responsible if their license gets revoked.
                    There is no harm in installing the software on a forum or test forum at your discretion. As long as you are not repeating publishing information about any planned features, bugs, etc., that we have not and are not releasing to the general public, you should be fine.

                    Comment

                    • Lawrence Cole
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2011
                      • 923

                      #25
                      Originally posted by OhioDave
                      Thanks, that thread really didn't answer much before getting locked. If anything it's left more questions...

                      1. Was there ever an update from Trevor regarding the fee to change domain names? (see post #34 & 35)
                      2. Are vBulletin 5 licenses transferable? I see it says vB4 are, but it makes no mention of vBulletin 5 licenses being transferable except in the License Agreement which seems to prohibit it.
                      3. For EU customers who buy second hand, are they stuck at the current version they recieve when accepting the license agreement, unless the pay an additional fee to access upgrades? (See post #42)

                      It seems there are a lot of errors (and omissions/additions that shouldn't be there/wrong language) in the new license agreement or is vBulletin solutions really cracking down on these things?

                      This is a serious question, is there no one that over looks any of this stuff before it gets posted/demo'd? This all just seems so sloppy to me.
                      We will be making an announcement on this soon. Please look out for it.

                      Comment

                      • Lawrence Cole
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2011
                        • 923

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Zylantex
                        Isn't that an excessive charge? I put it to you that you are trying to deny EU customers their legal rights by charging an exorbitant fee.
                        Hello Zylantex,

                        Your concerns are well understood; however, we are not denying EU customers their rights. In order to do that, we would have to deny them the ability to transfer at all.

                        Comment

                        • OhioDave
                          Banned
                          • Jul 2012
                          • 244

                          #27
                          Originally posted by s.molinari
                          Look at the logic behind it. If you know your customers want to give up their licenses, because they don't like the progress of vBulletin, then how do you keep them from "leaving" you? Chock up a high price for transferring a license and in the case of non-EU customers, just flat out deny it? Actually makes perfect sense to me. In other words, if you don't want to be a loyal IB customer, then you'll just have to pay for it or simply lump it.

                          Or, there could be another logic behind it. I'd venture to say through my experience, that license transfers were something support had to do quite often, which means work, which means costs. Why not stop this leaking too? The fact a customer who might not want to use her license and give it to someone who does want to use it (and also pay later again for another major update, possibly???), doesn't seem to be in the equation. But, who cares? IB now has now no costs for license transfers, why should they be bothered about customer loyalty or commitment? Costs are down! Yippee!

                          Scott
                          I'd hope there to be another logic (and more logical) reason behind it. Unhappy customers are one of the most vocal groups of customers, sticking it to them and not letting them transfer/move on to something more fitting for them will result in long term disaster.

                          Comment

                          • beishe8
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2005
                            • 6782
                            • 4.2.X

                            #28
                            Originally posted by OhioDave
                            I'd hope there to be another logic (and more logical) reason behind it.
                            There is no other reason behind it.

                            No licence transfers!

                            We cannot prevent EU customers from it?
                            Increase the fees, they will stop harassing us.


                            vB5 is unequivocally the best forum software, but not yet...

                            Comment

                            • Deimos
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2002
                              • 1517
                              • 3.8.x

                              #29
                              Originally posted by beishe8
                              We cannot prevent EU customers from it?
                              Increase the fees, they will stop harassing us.
                              Pretty much.
                              This place and it's policies just gets worse by the month, or the week in some cases.

                              Comment

                              • OhioDave
                                Banned
                                • Jul 2012
                                • 244

                                #30
                                Without a second hand market, it's going to be harder to attract those people in to the vBulletin ecosystem and get them hooked, thus spending more money here in the long term. I've got no problems with anyone charging a fee to transfer a license, after all it involves work by a human, and someone has to pay for that. But restricting it all together is going to cut off a segment of people looking to get in to ths business at the best price possible. Once you get someone in, it's easy to keep them coming back for more provided the product is good enough, but if you can't get that person in to begin with, they'll just find a cheaper solution and get locked in there.

                                If that's the reasoning, then why not just take the apple approach, code some data in a proprietary way, lock the customer in, and make exporting/converting that data an exhorbant fee (or to license the proprietary data converter). Kind of like an Apple model with having a complete lockdown and control over everything.

                                Works for apple, won't work well for other things though.

                                Comment

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