Convince me to move to VB5!

[Zackw]

As support, we will never try and sell you something IF we don't think it will suit you. I'm not necessarily saying that vB5 won't suit you, what I'm saying is, please don't upgrade for the sake of it. People do that, get it wrong, kill their sites and either close them or move to another platform. That does us as a company no good whatsoever.

There's a lot of very good vB5 sites about and it has many benefits. If I was starting a new forum today, I'd go with vB5, without question. It has some of the best page configuration tools on the market, in my view, creating (as an example) a custom portal page takes minutes in vB5, in vB4 that required a ton of custom code and / or an add-on such as vBAdvanced.

I have a good list of vB5 sites that are nicely customised and running well, sadly without the client's permission we can't publish the URLs, but I do have one I *can* publish as the owners gave permission - www.hdherd.com. This site was on vB4 and upgraded to vB5 on their own host, they subsequently moved to our vBCloud platform, and the site is active and there's a great little community there.

So if you want salesmanship...there it is. However, I'd implore you to think long and hard and make the decision that's right for YOUR site - not anyone else's, and not even us!

Well the main issue is VB4 is only going to get older. Mobile is a big issue, as will be moving to full HTTPS. People don't like Tapatalk. And I wish for the general UX to be a bit more modern, maybe more reactive and living, so to speak. Things like chat and events would be nice, and real time notifications. Better quoting/replying system and stronger search features. Stronger spam control too, and social features.

Even today I have a super weird issue on VB4. Our main admin (the boss) is seen in the moderator logs deleting posts and threads willy nilly, like hundreds of posts being deleted from a specific user account, and others. But the boss says he did no moderating and wasn't even in the forums that day. Yet the moderator log points to our office IP address so I can't say it's been hacked either? I hate bizarre issues like this. Hundreds of log entries of the boss deleting posts, but he says he didn't delete anything. What gives? I don't know.

I just get this impression like our forum is slightly out of our control, overrun, aging. And I want a fresh experience for our users. I have Glowhost Spamomatic and lots of customized controls, yet we get a dozen spam posts a day, which many users report, which then sends a lot of emails to moderators. I can't seem to find the right balance of controls.
For reasons I can't discover, even our primary accounts, moderators and super mods who have thousands of posts, get their posts put under moderation for some reason.

On the market today are really only a couple decent choices, VB5 and Discourse, maybe a couple others for simpler forums but those are the main two.
I know the folks here are a bit timid to recommend moving to their latest product, but the bottom line is; is VB5 a superior product or not? I know there could be serious migration issues, I would expect those problems. But at the end of the day I would hope I would be using a superior, safer, stronger, more modern piece of software that is in active, even rapid, development to stay current.

[meissen]

Fixing my post to reflect the more accurate situation -- A forum was erroneously updated by the upgrade script which turned bbcode off during the upgrade which then broke Quote and IMG tags.

[Mark.B]

QUOTE and IMG tags are absolutely not "broken out of the box". I install multiple copies of vB5 every week and not once is there ever a problem with either of those tags.

Most of the issues you mention are not things we see on a day to day basis.
Third party add-ons are, as their name suggests, not provided by us and we have no control over this.

[meissen]

Upgraded from vB 4.2.x to vB5.2.6 and it's been so-so.

For a 3 year old product, I wouldn't expect to be chasing problems like [quote] and [img] tags being broken after upgrading. EDIT: Turns out a subforum's settings were changed to turn bbcode off during the install somehow which is what broke the quote and img tags.

I'm severely disappointed in the lack of add-ons available at vbulletin.org. There's ~75 add-ons available, seemingly half of which are for older versions of vB5 and the dev's websites are defunct broken links. The only really active dev for vB5 is Filip from DBTech. Thank God for him developing in vB5 or else it'd be a total waste to upgrade unless you're OK with having a completely vanilla site.

I installed vB5 to a new directory per upgrade recommendations (switched from mifbody.com/vbulletin to mifbody.com/forums) so I am 100% sure I didn't use any vB4 files.

If I were to list the issues I've experienced since upgrading:

• Trying to figure out where image files are supposed to be uploaded is a total crapshoot. I moved my smilies into mifbody.com/forums/core/images/smilies which I thought fixed a lot of the broken images, but then I discovered other smilies were wanting the images to be in mifbody.com/forums/images/smilies. The same applies for avatars, signatures, etc. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Logically you'd think the images all go in the "core" folder, but apparently not....
• Random images/icons in the site are still showing as broken... Using default Black Red style and the image source is "http://www.mifbody.com/forums/core/http://www.mifbody.com/vbulletin/images/icons/icon6.png"
• A ton of user-uploaded attachments are now broken
• Forum/channel settings don't transfer over correctly, one of my subforums' settings was changed to turn bbcode off during the install which then broke IMG and Quote bbcode (including any other bbcode used)
• I had mod_deflate installed, but the instructions didn't mention that mod_deflate requires an additional apache mod enabled (mod_filter I think it was?) so I had an internal sever config error on my site thanks to the .htaccess file and nothing was being logged for it which made troubleshooting that much harder.
• Hidden forums were suddenly visible in the Forum home list - I have users now asking about forums that were previously hidden from the Forum home list.
• Open threads that users are saying they can't reply to. Admins can reply to the thread perfectly fine. I closed and re-opened the thread in hopes that it'd fix it, waiting for users to report back. (FIXED - Had to reset permissions on the specific forum the thread was in...)
• AdminCP Settings drop-down shows random blank lines, broken menu items apparently for vb4 modifications, etc
• Although the Style Variable Editor is a lot better, there's still a lot of hard-coded colors in the CSS files. My additional.css template seems to grow daily to fix hard-coded colors.
• Lack of 3rd-party development (mods / add-ons) is a HUGE turn-off to me.

[Wayne Luke]

vb5 layout is very difficult to set. I have been using vb4 since its launch and tried vb5 in my test site. I found it very difficult to use and confusing. Support advised me to re-upload my database every time I have problems, as they do not have solution for simple issues such as resuming default layout. Changing home page is very strange and ruined my site. Also could not get drop-down menus for navbar in vb5 in vb.org.

Your issues were not related to the layout of a page.

[albanah]

vb5 layout is very difficult to set. I have been using vb4 since its launch and tried vb5 in my test site. I found it very difficult to use and confusing. Support advised me to re-upload my database every time I have problems, as they do not have solution for simple issues such as resuming default layout. Changing home page is very strange and ruined my site. Also could not get drop-down menus for navbar in vb5 in vb.org.

[webmastersun]

No one is here to convince you to move to vB5 - in fact that would be terrible reason to do so.

You should only ever upgrade if you have a very good reason for doing so.

If your current site is running well, then why are you wanting to disrupt it with a major change ?

I have to agree with Paul on this point.

No one can decide to move to vB5 for you, it depends on you and you need to right reasons why need to upgrade to vB5. If no, stay with vB4 or vB3 versions.

Only thing to make a move is unless it wasn't supported any more.

[glennrocksvb]

How is the API, for building my own plugins? Is that robust?

You can call the API in different ways:

1. Call API via HTTP (AJAX or cURL):

Endpoint format:

/ajax/api/class/method

For example:

/ajax/api/user/fetchUserinfo?userid=1

All API calls require POST method.


2. Call API from another application within the same server:

<?php
$vbpath = 'path/to/vbulletin';
require_once($vbpath . '/includes/vb5/autoloader.php');
vB5_Autoloader::register($vbpath);
vB5_Frontend_Application::init('config.php');
$api = Api_InterfaceAbstract::instance();
$userid = 1;
$userInfo = $api->callApi('user', 'fetchUserinfo', array($userid));
var_dump($userInfo);

Another example is to login to vB from an external site: https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog...n-your-website


3. Call API from template using vB template syntax:

{vb:set userid, 1}
{vb:data userInfo, user, fetchUserinfo, {vb:raw userid}}
{vb:debugvardump userInfo}

4. Call API from frontend controller (/includes/vb5/frontend/controller).

<?php
//this file should be named mycontroller.php and saved in /includes/vb5/frontend/controller directory

class vB5_Frontend_Controller_MyController extends vB5_Frontend_Controller
{

    public function __construct()
    {
        parent::__construct();
    }

    public function actionHello()
    {
        // access db
        ///global $vbulletin;
        //$sql = "SELECT ....";
        //$result =  $vbulletin->db->query($sql);

        //call api
        $userInfo = Api_InterfaceAbstract::instance()->callApi('user', 'fetchUserinfo', array()); //get userinfo of current user
        $this->sendAsJson($userInfo);
    }

    public function hi()
    {
        //call api
        $userInfo = Api_InterfaceAbstract::instance()->callApi('user', 'fetchUserinfo', array());  //get userinfo of current user
        return $userInfo['username'];
    }
}

Then call the methods in frontend controller from AJAX, cURL or templates.

Template:

{vb:action username, mycontroller, hi}
<h1>Hi {vb:var username}!</h1>

AJAX/cURL endpoint:

/mycontroller/hello

Other things to note:

• Creating mods/plugins is still the same using product XML.
• PHP Hooks system is implemented in vB5 but it's not full-blown yet. You have to request vB for PHP hook locations before you can fully utilize it.
• There's Template Hook system which has been there since 5.0. It's works similarly with PHP hooks but the custom code is in the template using template syntax and hook locations are in the template.
• You can also create Modules or Widgets that can be used in Sitebuilder and be dragged and dropped onto any page.

[Mark.B]

Thanks Mark, I understand the points made.

I'm just curious why it seems like nobody wants to come in here and promote VB5? This sends the impression that either nobody thinks VB5 is actually good enough or worthy to promote, or they think it has nothing better to offer over and above VB4.
Paul is being nice and saying it's all up to me, well of course it's up to me, but in order to make an informed choice, someone still needs to be a salesman and tell me the benefits of upgrading and why I might want to.

As support, we will never try and sell you something IF we don't think it will suit you. I'm not necessarily saying that vB5 won't suit you, what I'm saying is, please don't upgrade for the sake of it. People do that, get it wrong, kill their sites and either close them or move to another platform. That does us as a company no good whatsoever.

There's a lot of very good vB5 sites about and it has many benefits. If I was starting a new forum today, I'd go with vB5, without question. It has some of the best page configuration tools on the market, in my view, creating (as an example) a custom portal page takes minutes in vB5, in vB4 that required a ton of custom code and / or an add-on such as vBAdvanced.

I have a good list of vB5 sites that are nicely customised and running well, sadly without the client's permission we can't publish the URLs, but I do have one I *can* publish as the owners gave permission - www.hdherd.com. This site was on vB4 and upgraded to vB5 on their own host, they subsequently moved to our vBCloud platform, and the site is active and there's a great little community there.

So if you want salesmanship...there it is. However, I'd implore you to think long and hard and make the decision that's right for YOUR site - not anyone else's, and not even us!

[Wayne Luke]

The bonuses of vBulletin 5 are:

• Site Builder - Build and customize pages across your site. A number of content modules are provided so you can achieve unique content delivery.
• Responsive - All themes in vBulletin 5 will work across a variety of devices and screen sizes including phones, tablets, and PCs.
• Themes - Multiple themes are provided. We make sure they are up to date and work properly between versions. As your site has a custom style currently, this may not be a benefit.
• Fully CSS Driven Layout - You can customize pretty much everything without ever touching the default templates.

Moving to vBulletin 5 is more of a conversion than an upgrade. The database and file structures are completely different. During the process, you will lose your custom style as well as any add-on products. You won't be able to go back. The way things work is different and there is a learning curve. So it isn't as simple as uploading files and running the upgrade script then being online.

However, I would say that the upgrade is worth it just for the mobile support. You won't need external apps and it works across many different devices. We undertake a lot of effort to make sure content shows properly in responsive modes. One thing that 5.2.5 doesn't have is a Calendar equivalent. We did add events in vBulletin 5.2.6. These would be the equivalent but they don't need to be in a "Calendar" to be viewed. You can add Events to any forum, group, blog, or article.

Another new feature that you might like is vBulletin Messenger. This works on mobile devices as well as the desktop. You can start chats using the Messenger system and it is built on top of the existing Private Message system. Each chat can have one or more members in it.

Permissions and Usergroup Promotions are very similar to use. Search is completely redone. Reputation has been changed to Likes and works a little differently. Reporting works but shows in a Message Center.

It would take some evaluation on your part. I recommend using our vBulletin 5 Connect Trial and trying the system out for a week.

http://www.vbulletin.com/en/vb5-trial/

[Zackw]

Thanks Mark, I understand the points made.

I'm just curious why it seems like nobody wants to come in here and promote VB5? This sends the impression that either nobody thinks VB5 is actually good enough or worthy to promote, or they think it has nothing better to offer over and above VB4.
Paul is being nice and saying it's all up to me, well of course it's up to me, but in order to make an informed choice, someone still needs to be a salesman and tell me the benefits of upgrading and why I might want to.

[Mark.B]

vB4 isn't abandoned, as referenced by the two current development releases 4.24 and 4.2.5.
However, it isn't going to get any major changes or new features, because it is simply not the current product line. There are only enough resources to focus in one product line, and that is obviously going to be vB5.

Facebook is just ludicrous, they move the goalposts every couple of months and it simply takes too much time to try and keep up with it all. We just about manage it in vB5. If it was up to me I'd drop Facebook entirely, it doesn't bond well with forums and forum owners generally only use it because they see Facebook as taking all their traffic and think allowing people to register with their Facebook accounts will change that. It won't. Probably best for another thread though.

MySQL fulltext search is always going to have limitations, on any platform. The basic search built into both vB4 and vB5 is adequate for small to medium sites but if you want better you need Sphinx. Nothing anyone can do about that.

[Paul M]

I am not a salesman, nor have I ever said otherwise.
You can believe what you will, do as you wish. Your choice.

[Zackw]

Given up on vB4 ?
Either you are just saying things you have no idea about, or you are seriously not paying attention.
There are two versions in various stages of RC or Beta, a huge amount of time has been spent on vB4 updates for PHP 7 & IPv6, plus many other minor fixes.

IE bugs ?
IE is a dead browser walking, I doubt anyone is fixing many IE bugs now.

What "known" problems with search ?
vb.com had almost 2.5 million rows before it updgraded to vB5, and that was on what is now an old version of mysql. Search worked just fine.

I hope you research your alternatives a lot better than you did vB4's status.

All I ever hear from support when people report VB4 issues is "well no guarantee that will ever be fixed" and "maybe go find someone to edit the core" and "maybe someone else will make a plugin" and "we have no plans for supporting that". And then of course the latest with the Facebook connector dying, "maybe you can go dig in the core and update the code for the new protocols, we have no plans to fix that".

Maybe you are the one out of touch? All I've seen for the past year or two is how VB4 is not getting anything done to it, and most efforts are going to VB5, and we should all go find programmers on vb.org to hack things up for fixes we want.

If that is not what's really going on, then you guys are not only the worst salesman, but the worst support as well, with the worst branding! The entire impression I've got from VB support for the last year+ is that VB4 is all but abandoned. 4.2.3 was released a year and a half ago and I've only see a few security patches since then. EVERY email I get from the vb company newsletter is about VB5.

And yes, we've been told for ages that the search and indexing capabilities of VB and MySQL fulltext are limited and so we should be moving to Sphynx. Just like Mark and everybody else would suggest to people with search issues.

And how many times has this graphic been shared? https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/file...3&d=1372119352

And another quote from Mark "You might as well do this right now. Search isn't going to change in 4.1.5. the greater likelihood is, it will not be until after vB5. Now that the editor is done, what you see with vB4 is pretty much what you're going to get"

Hence, why would customers like me ever get the impression VB4 is being abandoned?

Look, I'm not trying to be a punk, if I'm wrong, then this is good, I'm happy to hear there is still some work on VB4 even if it's slow. But you are still terrible salesman. It's like you're saying "hey, VB4 seems to still work, so meh, ignore VB5, it doesn't have anything to offer.". That's what I got from this thread so far.

If anything, you should be praising how amazing VB5 is compared to VB4 and all it's new awesomeness and that we're highly encouraged to upgrade, etc etc!

[Paul M]

Given up on vB4 ?
Either you are just saying things you have no idea about, or you are seriously not paying attention.
There are two versions in various stages of RC or Beta, a huge amount of time has been spent on vB4 updates for PHP 7 & IPv6, plus many other minor fixes.

IE bugs ?
IE is a dead browser walking, I doubt anyone is fixing many IE bugs now.

What "known" problems with search ?
vb.com had almost 2.5 million rows before it updgraded to vB5, and that was on what is now an old version of mysql. Search worked just fine.

I hope you research your alternatives a lot better than you did vB4's status.