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  • [Forum] Forum continuously exceeds RAM on server and freezes it

    Please forgive me- this is a very serious problem, and I don't know whether to ask here or in hosting so I am asking both places hoping for some insights.


    Our site has up to 300 users online at once. 2700 members. 140m database, 9G of files. We are running VB 1.12 patch one, and using several mods, including Evo Chat Box. We recently switched to dedicated hosting at HostAtom.net. The server has very good space, good bandwidth, but only 768 RAM. With everyone on at once, we spiked the server a few times and went down. We went up to 1024 but still spiked it. BTW the site is www.Hobby-Machinist.com



    I took down the chat box and things calmed.

    My question is this- should that many users at once max out the RAM?
    What kind of RAM do you guys use for comparable sites on VBulletin?
    Anyone else had this problem?

    I also had to restrict Guest access to bring down the memory drain. This is no fun. I would like to find out if this is normal on dedicated hosting. 1024 costs $60 month for a small hobby site- is this usual?

    Thanks,


    Nelson
    Nelson
    www.Hobby-Machinist.com

  • #2
    As with a computer, the more RAM you have the faster and better it can handle the applications on-board so pretty much the same for your server respectively. I do see you posted this in the Hosting forum i.e. https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/show...we-doing-wrong which is the best place to ask questions of this nature. Have you inquired with your current host yet? Ask them what they recommend as sometimes a simple bump-up in ram as you have done works and sometimes it could be something else your simply not seeing that is the issue.


    Former vBulletin Support Staff
    Hacked recently? See my blog post "Recovering a Hacked vBulletin Site".
    Thinking outside the box? Need modification support? Visit www.vBulletin.org and have at it!
    Need a Host? - I recommend URLJet

    Comment


    • #3
      Have a look at this site and disable search facility for non registered users, this is server intensive.

      http://www.vbulletin-faq.com/optimiz...tin-server.htm
      Holiday Forum
      Motor Car Forum
      Political Forum
      Web Hosting Forum

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TheLastSuperman View Post
        As with a computer, the more RAM you have the faster and better it can handle the applications on-board so pretty much the same for your server respectively. I do see you posted this in the Hosting forum i.e. https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/show...we-doing-wrong which is the best place to ask questions of this nature. Have you inquired with your current host yet? Ask them what they recommend as sometimes a simple bump-up in ram as you have done works and sometimes it could be something else your simply not seeing that is the issue.
        It happened after the bump-up in RAM too. And the web hoster (Kevin @HostAtom.net) said that they have larger and busier forums using VBulletin that are running fine under 768 of RAM. That is why I decided to ask here if anyone had encountered this, to get some ideas of what else might be causing this. In perspective, we don't have that many users on at once, even at 100 members and 200 guests. It does seem to me that something else is afoot here.

        I know that using the feature where you send a mass email to many members at once (like 1000) really spikes the server. But under normal running circumstances, how many users do you guys get on a 768 or 1024 RAM server at once? This is getting expensive and making me think about jury-rigging my own server somehow to run the site off of.

        Nelson
        Nelson
        www.Hobby-Machinist.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Allthumbz View Post
          It happened after the bump-up in RAM too. And the web hoster (Kevin @HostAtom.net) said that they have larger and busier forums using VBulletin that are running fine under 768 of RAM. That is why I decided to ask here if anyone had encountered this, to get some ideas of what else might be causing this. In perspective, we don't have that many users on at once, even at 100 members and 200 guests. It does seem to me that something else is afoot here.

          I know that using the feature where you send a mass email to many members at once (like 1000) really spikes the server. But under normal running circumstances, how many users do you guys get on a 768 or 1024 RAM server at once? This is getting expensive and making me think about jury-rigging my own server somehow to run the site off of.

          Nelson
          That's what I was thinking as well... what add-ons do you have installed? I have seen vBSEO place quite a load on some sites although that's typically on shared hosting plans only but let us know what you have installed and are running, it can help us point out possible issues and solutions to try.


          Former vBulletin Support Staff
          Hacked recently? See my blog post "Recovering a Hacked vBulletin Site".
          Thinking outside the box? Need modification support? Visit www.vBulletin.org and have at it!
          Need a Host? - I recommend URLJet

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Allthumbz View Post
            It happened after the bump-up in RAM too. And the web hoster (Kevin @HostAtom.net) said that they have larger and busier forums using VBulletin that are running fine under 768 of RAM. That is why I decided to ask here if anyone had encountered this, to get some ideas of what else might be causing this. In perspective, we don't have that many users on at once, even at 100 members and 200 guests. It does seem to me that something else is afoot here.

            I know that using the feature where you send a mass email to many members at once (like 1000) really spikes the server. But under normal running circumstances, how many users do you guys get on a 768 or 1024 RAM server at once? This is getting expensive and making me think about jury-rigging my own server somehow to run the site off of.

            Nelson
            With only 768 MB RAM, I am pretty sure you're on a VPS or some sort of virtualized device, not a dedicated server. Personally, I recommend 1024 MB myself at 32 MB per script on a VPS. With a dedicated server you should have at least 2 GB of RAM per processing core.

            The more people you have online, the more memory you're going to need. So if you have 2700 people online at once and for some reason they all request a file at once that is a requirement of 8.64 GB needed just for PHP at 32 MB per script. If PHP is set to allocate 64 MB per script, you would need twice the memory. And so forth. This memory requirement doesn't take into account the system memory, swap pages, MySQL or the Webserver. Even with only 30 (960 MB) simultaneous page requests you're over your low limit of 768 MB with just PHP and the load of users.

            You should get your server optimized to get as much use out of it as possible.
            http://www.vbulletin.com/go/tweak
            Translations provided by Google.

            Wayne Luke
            The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud customization and demonstration site.
            vBulletin 5 Documentation - Updated every Friday. Report issues here.
            vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
            I am not currently available for vB Messenger Chats.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by stevectaylor View Post
              Have a look at this site and disable search facility for non registered users, this is server intensive.

              http://www.vbulletin-faq.com/optimiz...tin-server.htm
              Steve:

              I have search and who is online disabled for Guests, but the list on that site is awesome. Thank you very much!

              By the way, I would add, General Update operations in the Maintenance area such as updating the Site Search, Thumbnail attachment updates, are also very server intensive.

              Nelson

              Nelson

              - - - Updated - - -

              Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
              With only 768 MB RAM, I am pretty sure you're on a VPS or some sort of virtualized device, not a dedicated server. Personally, I recommend 1024 MB myself at 32 MB per script on a VPS. With a dedicated server you should have at least 2 GB of RAM per processing core.

              The more people you have online, the more memory you're going to need. So if you have 2700 people online at once and for some reason they all request a file at once that is a requirement of 8.64 GB needed just for PHP at 32 MB per script. If PHP is set to allocate 64 MB per script, you would need twice the memory. And so forth. This memory requirement doesn't take into account the system memory, swap pages, MySQL or the Webserver. Even with only 30 (960 MB) simultaneous page requests you're over your low limit of 768 MB with just PHP and the load of users.

              You should get your server optimized to get as much use out of it as possible.
              http://www.vbulletin.com/go/tweak

              Wayne,

              Thank you- I stand corrected- I am on a form of VPS. We went up to 1024 RAM, but I don't know what the PHP per script is set to. I would have to ask the admin to set it to 32MB if not already set for that.

              A dedicated server is about $100 per month- that is very expensive for a small nonprofit site. How do people do it? I cannot get enough donations to cover it and advertising is not an option for reasons I won't go into.


              Nelson
              Nelson
              www.Hobby-Machinist.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Allthumbz View Post
                A dedicated server is about $100 per month- that is very expensive for a small nonprofit site. How do people do it? I cannot get enough donations to cover it and advertising is not an option for reasons I won't go into.
                You should go through the Server Optimization link above to get your site working. Though $60/month is a little high for a VPS with 1024 MB. I pay $45.00 for full managed VPS hosting with 1216 MB RAM, 60 GB of storage and 3500 GB Bandwidth. It is primarily for a few small sites, vBulletin testing and a couple of domains used for family email purposes.

                Most people pay for their dedicated servers through a variety of ways.

                1) They run several different sites with advertising, subscriptions, affiliate revenue and other sources of income like shopping carts or themed merchandise.

                2) They block it out into something similar to a VPS and resell portions of it to cover the cost.

                3) They cover it out of their pocket.
                Translations provided by Google.

                Wayne Luke
                The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud customization and demonstration site.
                vBulletin 5 Documentation - Updated every Friday. Report issues here.
                vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                I am not currently available for vB Messenger Chats.

                Comment


                • #9
                  #3 for me .. I have a dedicated server which I am using as a playground and simply consider the site a hobby. Personally I hate asking for donations or put ads all over the place.

                  Let's put it that way - one PROPER night out in the pub usually covers the running costs. Mind you - $100 is darn cheap for a dedicated server. Another option is eBay. Buy a server yourself and go shopping for co-location. Webhostingchat site has often companies advertising for cheap-as-chips.
                  I'm not under the alkafluence of inkahol like some thinkle peep I am!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheLastSuperman View Post
                    That's what I was thinking as well... what add-ons do you have installed? I have seen vBSEO place quite a load on some sites although that's typically on shared hosting plans only but let us know what you have installed and are running, it can help us point out possible issues and solutions to try.


                    Here are the add-ons we are using:
                    Nelson

                    [vBulletin 4.1.12

                    Admin Log In As User 3.21 This hack will allow admins to log in as any user. Edit Check Version Disable Export Uninstall

                    Auto build multi custom pages with their navtabs 1.0.4 This mod will admin to create up to three custom pages with their navtab in a fly. You just need to enter your page titles and content. Visit our website for help and instructions http://vbfixer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1382 Edit Disable Export Uninstall

                    Ban Spider by UserAgent 3.0.3 Allows you to ban spiders from your site by User Agent Edit Check Version Disable Export Uninstall

                    DownloadsII 6.0.9 A downloads mod for vBulletin Edit Check Version Disable Export Uninstall

                    Inactive User Reminder Emails 2.2.1 Sends emails out to inactive users encouraging them to re-visit the forum Edit Disable Export Uninstall

                    Members who have Visited 4.1.7.0 Display members who have visited the forum. Edit Check Version Disable Export Uninstall

                    MGC Chatbox Evo 3.2.3 MGC Chatbox Evo Edit Disable Export Uninstall

                    Navbar menu for Gallery 1.00 Adds a navbar Gallery drop-down menu Edit Disable Export Uninstall

                    Picture and Album Gallery 1.08 Picture and Album Gallery for vB4 Edit Check Version Disable Export Uninstall

                    Post Thank You Hack 7.83 Post Thank You Hack Edit Disable Export Uninstall

                    Usergroup Legend on Forumhome 1.1.0 This product will show the user groups you have available on your site in a legend on the forumhome. Edit Check Version Disable Export Uninstall

                    vBulletin Blog 4.1.12 Personal web log, integrated with vBulletin. Edit Disable Export Uninstall

                    vBulletin CMS 4.1.12 Content Management System Edit Disable Export Uninstall

                    VSa - PayPal Donate 5.0 VSa - PayPal Donate Edit Check Version Disable Export Uninstall
                    Last edited by Allthumbz; Tue 22nd May '12, 12:29pm.
                    Nelson
                    www.Hobby-Machinist.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Remember that vBulletin is not the only application that your server needs to run, vBulletin itself does not normally consume a ton of memory, but everything else that the server needs to run does.
                      You have your:

                      • Webserver
                      • Mail Server
                      • cron jobs
                      • ftp
                      • hosting control panel
                      • MySQL
                      • etc



                      All of these take memory, before you even get to vBulletin.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
                        You should go through the Server Optimization link above to get your site working. Though $60/month is a little high for a VPS with 1024 MB. I pay $45.00 for full managed VPS hosting with 1216 MB RAM, 60 GB of storage and 3500 GB Bandwidth. It is primarily for a few small sites, vBulletin testing and a couple of domains used for family email purposes.

                        Most people pay for their dedicated servers through a variety of ways.

                        1) They run several different sites with advertising, subscriptions, affiliate revenue and other sources of income like shopping carts or themed merchandise.

                        2) They block it out into something similar to a VPS and resell portions of it to cover the cost.

                        3) They cover it out of their pocket.

                        Wayne,

                        I have had a lot of problems with hosting that I won't go into.

                        Could you PM me that web host? Sounds like a good deal. My site isn't that big.

                        I know NOTHING about running my own server. Maybe it is time to learn, buy a Dell server and use my cable broadband?

                        Where would I begin to learn how?


                        Thanks,

                        Nelson

                        - - - Updated - - -

                        Originally posted by Gomjaba View Post
                        #3 for me .. I have a dedicated server which I am using as a playground and simply consider the site a hobby. Personally I hate asking for donations or put ads all over the place.

                        Let's put it that way - one PROPER night out in the pub usually covers the running costs. Mind you - $100 is darn cheap for a dedicated server. Another option is eBay. Buy a server yourself and go shopping for co-location. Webhostingchat site has often companies advertising for cheap-as-chips.
                        Gom,

                        I'm thinking to self-host but don't know how. Maybe buy a Dell server. Use my broadband from cable. What is co-location and WHERE do I learn to self host?

                        Thanks,


                        Nelson
                        Nelson
                        www.Hobby-Machinist.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hello,

                          I wanted to clear some stuff up and also make aware of the issues.

                          First off you do not pay $60 per month. You pay $40. When we first spoke you said you had a small forum and that was it. Did not mention the two [2] Wordpress sites. I suggested our XEN2. This has 768MB RAM 40GB HDD and 500GB Transfer. This is also a Fully managed.

                          Like with all of our services we fully optimized the server. Everything was fine until the addition of 2 Wordpress sites onto the server. The server started spiking and we added Nginx and optimized some more since there are now three [3] total sites trying to run off 768MB RAM. I explained that most likely they would need to move to a VPS with higher RAM specs. SO with that I mentioned we can try to just upgrade the RAM to see if that would help. At the same time we looked into what was causing the spikes again. It turned out that there were hundreds of errors from the chat box. I suggested that they remove the chat box to see if the spikes stopped. They did. Everything was running fine.

                          At this time I apologized for the inconviences and said that since they have been very patient I will keep the upgraded RAM at no extra cost.

                          I am guessing they decided to turn the chat box back on as the errors started appearing again...and they made this thread.

                          Like I explained to Nelson we have clients on the same server setup running with no issues at all.

                          We are more than happy to work with them to get it sorted. At this time though our recommendation to them is either remove the chat box or upgrade the server for more RAM if they wanted to keep the chat box.

                          If there are any more questions a support ticket can be opened.

                          Thank you,

                          Kevin
                          HostAtom.net - Forum Hosting at it's best! Email Sales@HostAtom.net and find out more!
                          Cpanel, Softaculous, LiteSpeed, CloudLinux, Daily R1Soft backups, 24x7 Server monitoring

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            nevermind, didn't see Kevins post above
                            -- Web Developer for hire
                            ---Online Marketing Tools and Articles

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KevinL View Post
                              Hello,

                              I wanted to clear some stuff up and also make aware of the issues.

                              First off you do not pay $60 per month. You pay $40. When we first spoke you said you had a small forum and that was it. Did not mention the two [2] Wordpress sites. I suggested our XEN2. This has 768MB RAM 40GB HDD and 500GB Transfer. This is also a Fully managed.

                              Like with all of our services we fully optimized the server. Everything was fine until the addition of 2 Wordpress sites onto the server. The server started spiking and we added Nginx and optimized some more since there are now three [3] total sites trying to run off 768MB RAM. I explained that most likely they would need to move to a VPS with higher RAM specs. SO with that I mentioned we can try to just upgrade the RAM to see if that would help. At the same time we looked into what was causing the spikes again. It turned out that there were hundreds of errors from the chat box. I suggested that they remove the chat box to see if the spikes stopped. They did. Everything was running fine.

                              At this time I apologized for the inconviences and said that since they have been very patient I will keep the upgraded RAM at no extra cost.

                              I am guessing they decided to turn the chat box back on as the errors started appearing again...and they made this thread.

                              Like I explained to Nelson we have clients on the same server setup running with no issues at all.

                              We are more than happy to work with them to get it sorted. At this time though our recommendation to them is either remove the chat box or upgrade the server for more RAM if they wanted to keep the chat box.

                              If there are any more questions a support ticket can be opened.

                              Thank you,

                              Kevin
                              Kevin,

                              I don't feel it is appropriate to use this forum to discuss personal situations, and for that reason declined to post any details in my original post. I am disappointed that you saw fit to "make others aware" of what I declined to discuss, but since you did, I will respond once, deem the matter closed, and ask you to sever our business relationship and provide a refund of the unused portion of the funds we paid you ($440). Suffice to say, I disagree with the statements you made to a large degree. We run a small nonprofit hobby site- www.hobby-machinist.com and money is tight. We ask for donations- some people are nice and donate- most can't.

                              You migrated the Wordpress sites (2) yourself, and knew of them. Please don't pretend they were a surprise. They are also DORMANT- one has redirect errors, and doesn't come up, and the other is a one page church site with no visitors (www.nelsontimken.com and www.stelisabethsepiscopalchurch.org). Your service permits unlimited sites on the account. We asked for donations, and paid you $480 at once for a year for our small nonprofit site rather than month to month. From the start, we had nothing but problems with the service, and our traffic has gone from 100 members at a time online to less than 50. When the server spiked, we had 100 members online and 200 guests. I removed Guest access and THEN the problems subsided. The chat box, MGC Chatbox Evo v3.2.3 by MGC 2008-2012, ran on two other servers with no issues. When the server spiked the second time, you said I had to upgrade and pay $240 more ($20 per month). At no time did I refuse to pay the additional $240! I told you I would pay you some now and some in 3 weeks. You neglected to mention that. I also asked you to confirm what the cause was of the spike in RAM and you couldn't. Then you offered to reduce the cost to $50 and then nothing. Members of our volunteer staff felt the entire thing was suspicious, but I tried to be open-minded, and give you the benefit of the doubt. I am sorry you saw fit to air this on here- that wasn't called for or wise.

                              Yesterday, I tried to upgrade to VB 4.2. Your server refused to upload certain files, generating numerous errors. I tried to change permissions to see if that was the cause, and the server refused to do that either. I have upgraded several times on other servers with NO issues. I asked you what it was, and you had no idea. Finally, I kept trying to upload over and over until it worked.

                              We WANT to have the chat box, and I have no clue why your server, unlike the other two, is generating errors. My members like it. I like it. I also want to have Guest access, that is how we get new members.

                              In sum, we had a bad experience with your server. We lost traffic, and members. My staff and some of the members are fed up with the problems we've had. The details of all this would all have been kept to myself, but for your comments.

                              I deem this matter closed- it is what it is as we say.
                              Please refund the balance due us, and we will go elsewhere. Thank you.


                              Nelson

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              And when you ask Kevin for a refund of $440 in advance payments you didn't have to make,for the entire year, he tells you some BS that his terms of service let him keep it all. This guy's a real crook. Steer clear of him.

                              Nelson


                              Hello,

                              Like in our TOS that you agreed to there are no refunds on servers other than shared hosting.

                              Thank you,

                              Kevin

                              Nelson Timken
                              Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:52 PM


                              We will stay till the end of this month. Please refund our payments from then on.

                              Nelson Timken
                              Sent from my iPhone


                              On May 24, 2012, at 11:23 AM, Host Atom <support@hostatom.net> wrote:




                              Host Atom
                              Thursday, May 24, 2012 11:23 AM



                              Hello,

                              We are contacting you today to make you aware of one of our nodes being down. We are looking into this now. Once there is an update we will send out another update.

                              If you have any questions or concerns please open a support ticket.

                              Than kyou,

                              Host Atom

                              Nelson
                              www.Hobby-Machinist.com

                              Comment

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