Refund

[the geek]

I understand that, however we are talking about semantics and perception. The OP wants a refund because of the state of the system. It isn't usable on mid sized and larger sites without mass overhaul or mass server upgrades. The OP deserves to expect a 'buy, install and run'. Some people feel that is unreasonable and tha they should only see vB4 as a set of tools that they have to rework before they can use it. That is moronic.

So, turnkey it may not be, but toolkit it certainly shouldn't HAVE to be.

And for what its worth, the CMS is in shambles. If you think 200+ queries for 1 page is fine, then more power to you. It would break most mid sized sites on an average dedicated server.

[Hotpuppy]

Some people feel that is unreasonable and tha they should only see vB4 as a set of tools that they have to rework before they can use it.
So, turnkey it may not be, but toolkit it certainly shouldn't HAVE to be.
And for what its worth, the CMS is in shambles. If you think 200+ queries for 1 page is fine, then more power to you. It would break most mid sized sites on an average dedicated server.

200 queries sounds a bit steep, but on our host the server is so overbuilt we never seem to be able to drive it above .1% anyhow......

CMS seems to work fine for me on my site, but then again I don't have the type of site that vbulletin is running for vbulletin.com.....

I think vbulletin is a application platform, not a finished turnkey solution. So yes, I think some configuration is required to get it the way you want it.

Heck, if he wants a refund I'm all for it. I think it's a great piece of software and while not perfect is certainly very well done. I won't participate in a round of "bash the coders"..... I'll save that for whoever wrote Readme file.

[Mark.B]

Turnkey is a television... You plug it in, turn it on, it does what it should. Vbulletin by it's very definition is not turnkey. When you install it the database is empty.. .and content is the value of your site.

Toolkit is something that enables you to do something else. Vbulletin lets you build a valuable, powerful community. Sure it has some sharp edges... but so does every major piece of software. I still think it's the best out there.

The CMS piece appears to work just fine to me.... maybe not as slick as The Houston Chronicle's implementation of wordpress.... but it's similar enough that users are telling me it looks like a newspaper and that's good enough for me. One user said "I thought I was on the wrong site at first... it looked so slick and professional.... good job".

Let me be clear, the only real issue I have with the CMS is the 200 queries. I love the "newspaper" look, and aside from a few fairly minor rough edges, it's *just* the query issue. I couldn't possibly install it on my site with that problem unresolved.

[ManagerJosh]

Honestly, this does NOT surprise me.

It's not MY definition; it's THE definition. Go look it up and be an informed poster.

It's not subjective. Purchasing a compressed package of software files that you must know how to install and configure is NOT a turnkey solution. Choosing to NOT have to worry about doing this *is* the entire purpose of a turnkey solution.

Then again, what would I know - I'm just the Corporate Director of Information Technology with two degrees in IT, including a BBA in Management of Information Technology, so what the heck would I know about turnkey software solutions?

With all do respect, if you're part of upper management for a corporation, then please behave and act as if you're part of upper management. I've never met anyone in industry who felt they needed to tout their creditability or flaunt their title in order to prove their point.

If there's anything you should know from being in a position of management, it is that there are many points of views and many opinions, and not everyone has the exact same definition. There are always variations.

[ManagerJosh]

Turnkey is a television... You plug it in, turn it on, it does what it should. Vbulletin by it's very definition is not turnkey. When you install it the database is empty.. .and content is the value of your site.

Toolkit is something that enables you to do something else. Vbulletin lets you build a valuable, powerful community. Sure it has some sharp edges... but so does every major piece of software. I still think it's the best out there.

The CMS piece appears to work just fine to me.... maybe not as slick as The Houston Chronicle's implementation of wordpress.... but it's similar enough that users are telling me it looks like a newspaper and that's good enough for me. One user said "I thought I was on the wrong site at first... it looked so slick and professional.... good job".

Based on that analogy, Windows is not a Turnkey. The hard drive is empty.


I, personally, subscribe to the wikipedia definition of what a turnkey project is:

A turn-key or a turn-key project is a type of project that is constructed by a developer and sold or turned over to a buyer in a ready-to-use condition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnkey

The software is ready to be used; it just requires a bit of installation in order for it to function.

Yet at the same time vBulletin is also a platform and provides a set of tools in which to build a community. What we're buying is a ready-made toolkit.

[RobParker]

Turnkey is a television... You plug it in, turn it on, it does what it should. Vbulletin by it's very definition is not turnkey. When you install it the database is empty.. .and content is the value of your site.

I took my definition of turnkey from Wikipedia to be consistent (and I think thats fair enough, even if it is wikipedia). One example they use is an audio editing software suite. By your definition that's not a turnkey as you still need to record the audio file. That's just the same as VB needing you to create content.

Regardless of the semantics, none of the marketing ever used terms like toolkit or turnkey so it's irrelevant. What they did say was that it was a "CMS built for communities" with "ease of use" one of the key features.

[Floris]

Since everybody keeps repeating themselves, let me just join that failtrain and say: The user asked for a refund, and how to achieve this. The user provided an argument why he wanted a refund. The answer has been given. And yet this thread is 6 pages long. <jazzhands> OMG DRAMA </jazzhands>

[vivamexico55]

Since everybody keeps repeating themselves, let me just join that failtrain and say: The user asked for a refund, and how to achieve this. The user provided an argument why he wanted a refund. The answer has been given. And yet this thread is 6 pages long. <jazzhands> OMG DRAMA </jazzhands>

Must be a bug, because it's only 2 pages long for me! n_n

[the geek]

<jazzhands> does not validate.

[Floris]

Must be a bug, because it's only 2 pages long for me! n_n

Surely you know how vBulletin works. I will be nitpicking specific next time if you want and say at least 80 posts uselessly long .. regardless of user preferenced pagination settings.

[Floris]

<jazzhands> does not validate.

The drama in this thread is overkill nevertheless.

[vivamexico55]

Surely you know how vBulletin works. I will be nitpicking specific next time if you want and say at least 80 posts uselessly long .. regardless of user preferenced pagination settings.

It was a joke

[Trevor Hannant]

The original question has now been answered. If you have feedback on the product, please post in the appropriate forum.

Thank you