Bill me for Solicitor/Attorney Fees!

[David Copeland]

James,

I was glad to see your response to my copyright questions,
and was delighted to see you have retained a solicito to look
into the many USA and International copyright concerns
that may arise.

BUT, I was SHOCKED to see you chose to close my Topic
after you and another forum member got into an off-topic
argument over his potential flaming!

You have Administrative Rights and could have DELETED his
replies to my Topic, and then privately emailed him a
warning! Instead, you chose to "throw the baby out with
the bath water!"

Please reconsider this in the future, to safeguard the
author's topic and all of those replies that are ON TOPIC,
rather than close out all the good because of one or two
side trackers.

In any event, please BILL me for my portion of any legal
costs it will take to preserve the integrity and copyrights
of Vbulletin.

By the way, how many Vbulletin's have you sold?

[bira]

If you're talking about that thread with cheeky, then it deserved to die a merciless death long before it reached the lows that it had!

And if you're not talking about this thread, then I'll go back to minding my own busisness

[David Copeland]

Are you speaking . . .

Are you speaking of the ENTIRE thread?
If not, then that's my point!

Why burn the whole house down with everyone in it,
when only ONE person is responsible for his own actions?

Especially, when the administrator has the rights to
delete the replies that were a concern!

[bira]

Allow me to be crude...

Sometimess someone farts so many times, that removing him from the room won't make the smell go away....

That thread was going no where and was contributing nothing. The initial take was valid and interesting, but from there on it was just agrivating, insulting and a nuisance.

So that specific thread was closed. It doesn't mean you can't discuss the matter if you have anything to say, ask, etc.

I can tell you for myself that, coming from legal background and being involved in several copyright issues, the subject at hand was\is fascinating for me. But that thread made me regret the one and only post I contributed there, and I am quite sure that others who had something rational or insightful to say felt the same.

Hence, closing that thread was - in my opinion - the right thing to do.

[David Copeland]

Hmmmm.

Then we must agree to disagree . . .

[James]

Hi David,

Sorry you feel that I acted irrationally by closing the thread... I felt that all the points raised had been covered, and the discussion had turned into a mini flame war.

I'm happy to re-open the topic and delete the off topic threads if you feel strongly about it.

By the way, how many Vbulletin's have you sold?

Over 100 licenses have been sold.

All the best,

James

[cheeky]

I'm back and trying to keep the tone down.

Instead, you chose to "throw the baby out with
the bath water!"

if you re-read the thread I'll think you find that it was I that asked for thread to be closed and not the other way around.

You're right about the FAQ. UBB could easily win in a trial on that point alone. And USA law allows on a majority of the jury to find in favor of the plaintiff, such as 6-4, instead of all jurors.
Spend the little bit of cash and get a legal review.

Also, you will also find that you agreed with the line of the thread too!

Again, the real question was from yourself that vB should make a legal statement before selling licensed software that contains duplicate copies of HTML code from a rival competive board as shown.
(I'd be interested to hear Bira's opinion on this point)

Copies that vB described as "co-incidental"

Sometimes someone farts so many times, that removing him from the room won't make the smell go away....

You can also argue that if someone steals so many times, that removing their hands does not make them a saint.


vB have still not been in contact with me with any of the concerns aforementioned in previous threads.

[David Copeland]

Thanks for the offer.

[b]I appreciate your offer to open the closed thread. I
was going to THANK you in that closed topic for the comment
you made . . . but couldn't. So I'll offer my thanks here.

----------

And for the others here, perhaps you misread my agenda.
I am NOT trying to poke holes in VBulletin. To the
contrary, I just purchased the software over the holiday
and will have our forum up soon. My reason for asking
about copyright protections was to encourage VBulletin
to look into a legal review as a preventative measure
against some frevious lawsuit that may arise. And I
believe their answer will suffice.

-----------

Now on to making the board better and moving on.

[James]

cheeky

We have already said that we're in the process of dealing with the copyright issues internally... so give it a rest ok? I have already asked you to continue this discussion with me via email, so you contact me with any concerns you have.

David: Thank you for your kind words!

All the best,

James

[TotalBS]

at least it wasn't deleted

I think it was better to close the thread than delete any of those posts.

Sure it was going a bit off topic, and getting a bit heated. Closing it helped cool it down. I think that was the right thing to do.

Deleting the 'offensive' posts would not have been good. Then this board might start editing certain words out, like ub2k.


I think these boards are being handled great. And I like seeing that John and James are here all the time.

[cheeky]

James,

I respect your wishes but in turn members should also have their wishes respected. That's only fair. An open community is a 2-way process.

I found it annoying that David agreed with my thread then contradicted himself yesterday and that Bira was making offensive remarks without any real justification which I was entitled to counter which has gone without reply.
I made a direct point to Bira (whose probably the closest here to understanding about copyright issues) about source HTML contrary to his argument and others of "look & Style"

Again, I have been very clear and been suported by other thread contributors in dribs and drabs (mainly confusion and contradiction) and we all look forward to vB releasing the appropriate legal documentation which should have been the case from the start, to avoid such a thread as I indicated very early on.
However, vB's lack of control of administering the unwanted and unrequested input from members who were not aware of company policies and issues caused the thread to expand.

As to contacting me regarding these issues, I am more than happy to take it to email and make public any findings when they become appropriate.

There is no need for me to re-iterate the points as they are already listed in your DB. You have access to the complete lists of raised points and concerns and you know how to contact me.
Please feel free to answer those questions at your convenience.

And further more, you did not say that you had legal represenation looking into copyright issues, but instead said that "it was none of my business".

The whole point was that David was concerned for exactly this reason for purchasing licensed software and your public response has been noted. This does not deter him from investing but really serves as a reassurance that his investment would not be wasted if a dispute arose.

Simple legal clarification of the product is all that is required, no flaming, no wars, no mocking, no insults.

[James]

cheeky

Re: legal issues, I consider the matter closed in this public forum. *All* further comments you (or other members) have must be taken to email. I do not want a repetition of the "flame wars" we have experienced on these boards in the last few days. We are in the process of looking into any potential legal problems internally, and I'll make sure that any issues are brought to light in the public arena.

All the best,

James

[cheeky]

All of the following have been asked by myself and now finally agreed upon.

1) I wanted these thread issues isolated from the start
2) Members input was not publically required
3) No flame wars
4) vB invest in legal council
5) That a public statement be made.

now if only these had been addressed and agreed upon at the start, so much time would have not been wasted.

No further issues have been raised and the concerns are now being resolved via email.

All the best to all who contributed in a lively and unnecessarily heated series of threads.

[Craig A]

And the last word must go to...

[wandrer]

$10 says he will have to post until he gets the last word in.





[Edited by wandrer on 05-30-2000 at 12:30 PM]