Opensource vs Closedsource

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Paul J
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2001
    • 1053

    Opensource vs Closedsource

    I always here the saying, "You get what you pay for" as a reason to think that software that's free is somehow not as good as software that costs.

    I use Mozilla as a browser and it's the browser by which all others are written. Apache Webserver is free, is that crap too? Proftpd is the standard for ftp servers...oh and free. Unix, which is probably the operating system used on 99% of webservers out there, is free. Is Unix not as good as (or better than) Windows? How many of your sites are powered by free and open software?

    I just think it's pretty silly to dismiss something because it's free, that somehow software that costs is "better" than software that's free. Clearly, the examples I've given above prove that notion to be false.
  • Wayne Luke
    vBulletin Technical Support Lead
    • Aug 2000
    • 73981

    #2
    I would like to point out in fact that most versions of UNIX are not free. You pay large sums of money to use and maintain solid UNIX operating systems. HP-UX, Solaris, and AIX are considered the premier UNIX platforms and not a single one is free.

    Last time I worked on an AIX system the upgrade discs cost us $1500 a year. Not exactly free.

    Overall in life, you get what you pay for. If you settle for cheap quality and poor solutions you will have problems. Look at Sourceforge... 99.99% of the projects listed within its pages are pure garbage and full of junk. Of the .01% that can actually be decent, 99% are dead projects with no ongoing support. This leaves you with a rare jewel if you can actually find a decent project to fit your needs there. You basically have a 1 out of 1000 chance to find exactly what you need. It can take you thousands of hours to find this one project. So let me ask you this is that worth it?

    On another note, you are a vBulletin customer so obviouisly you realize there is worth in purchased software as well.
    Translations provided by Google.

    Wayne Luke
    The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
    vBulletin 5 API

    Comment

    • Paul J
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2001
      • 1053

      #3
      "Thousands of hours"? To find a single app? Come on. And are you really using the diversity of applications built under the GPL as a downfall? I thought choice was good for the consumer.

      Your list of OS's is misleading...they may not be free, but Unix is. It's Opensource, under the GPL. Meaning those companies were free to take Unix and do what they want with it.

      You don't see dozens of different Windows variations.

      Comment

      • Tolitz
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2000
        • 1371
        • 2.3.0

        #4
        Well, open source doesn't always mean it's free of charge ... it only means it's free to distribute and modify... it's a common misconception...
        OPEN TECH SUPPORT
        "Tech is our middle name!"

        Comment

        • Wayne Luke
          vBulletin Technical Support Lead
          • Aug 2000
          • 73981

          #5
          Originally posted by Paul J
          "Thousands of hours"? To find a single app? Come on. And are you really using the diversity of applications built under the GPL as a downfall? I thought choice was good for the consumer.
          Download, Install, Test, Delete, Repeat...

          It adds up. Or do you just take the first project that fits your search and accept it as the best? In my opinion that would be a very foolish thing to do. Heck, I have been looking for a Decent ERP/CRM application for six months now. After working with NOLA for about a month, it failed to fit my needs and so I have been looking more. The biggest downfall of NOLA is that it is Browser based and therefore intensely slow when compared to an actual application. Since I don't the specifics of programming an ERP/CRM application, I can't just write my own. I suspect that I will have to settle for something like Cougar Mountain because it does fit my needs and only costs $1500/seat which is cheap for a N-Tier application.
          Translations provided by Google.

          Wayne Luke
          The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
          vBulletin 5 API

          Comment

          • okrogius
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2001
            • 1149

            #6
            Originally posted by Wayne Luke
            I would like to point out in fact that most versions of UNIX are not free. You pay large sums of money to use and maintain solid UNIX operating systems. HP-UX, Solaris, and AIX are considered the premier UNIX platforms and not a single one is free.

            Last time I worked on an AIX system the upgrade discs cost us $1500 a year. Not exactly free.

            Overall in life, you get what you pay for. If you settle for cheap quality and poor solutions you will have problems. Look at Sourceforge... 99.99% of the projects listed within its pages are pure garbage and full of junk. Of the .01% that can actually be decent, 99% are dead projects with no ongoing support. This leaves you with a rare jewel if you can actually find a decent project to fit your needs there. You basically have a 1 out of 1000 chance to find exactly what you need. It can take you thousands of hours to find this one project. So let me ask you this is that worth it?

            On another note, you are a vBulletin customer so obviouisly you realize there is worth in purchased software as well.
            Solaris is free... but you get it primarily by buying a Sun server (which isn't free) .

            Comment

            • Wayne Luke
              vBulletin Technical Support Lead
              • Aug 2000
              • 73981

              #7
              Originally posted by Codename49
              Solaris is free... but you get it primarily by buying a Sun server (which isn't free) .
              You can purchase it separately as well. Especially the Intel Architechture version which is marketed as a replacement for Windows. My last outside the home place of employment had three XEON servers running Solaris to handle VOIP and Callrouting for the local callcenter.
              Translations provided by Google.

              Wayne Luke
              The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
              vBulletin 5 API

              Comment

              • Paul J
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2001
                • 1053

                #8
                I guess my point is more acute than where we're going.

                I just read a thread where someone said, "Why do you think Invisionboard doesn't cost anything?". Implying that free software is somehow not as good. That charging for software somehow magically makes it superior than anything else.

                Wayne, while I understand your frustration...the diversity of software available to the end user is an important concept. Restricting the use of a piece of software does nothing in the way of fostering growth, and does everything for fattening the bottom line of the person or persons that wrote said software and binding the hands of future developers. There are so many Linux options that are tailored to hundreds of different needs because of the basic philosophy of opensource and growth.

                Your quest for your specific app will be reached faster in an environment that embraces change and sharing than it will be in an environment that delimits use. Because developers are allowed to share and the community benfits from the cooperation. You even said it yourself, "I can't seem to find one out of the dozens of choices I have. So I guess I have to go with the only other option I have, $1,500".

                A prime example can (and is) vBulletin. No offense is intended, but creating such a strict license (charging yearly for both the license and access to the software) will only lead to a dead end. Frankly, you're seeing such strong competition from other places now because of the tight grip you place around your customer's necks. One way streets only go as such: one way.

                Comment

                • MasterMac
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2002
                  • 417

                  #9
                  I just want to point something out real quickly

                  Originally posted by Paul J
                  A prime example can (and is) vBulletin. No offense is intended, but creating such a strict license (charging yearly for both the license and access to the software) will only lead to a dead end. Frankly, you're seeing such strong competition from other places now because of the tight grip you place around your customer's necks. One way streets only go as such: one way.
                  Actually, once you pay for an owned liscence ($160), then you can keep the copy of vB that you get forever. The yearly thing is only access to the updates & stuff. Once that year goes by, you're not forced to delete everything you have..you just won't be able to re-download it or update it unless you pay $35 for another year

                  Comment

                  • Paul J
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2001
                    • 1053

                    #10
                    Right, a leased license costs yearly for both things.

                    The time is nigh for Jelsoft to rethink their license, before they find themselves facing the wrong way on a one way street.

                    Comment

                    • Steve Machol
                      Former Customer Support Manager
                      • Jul 2000
                      • 154488

                      #11
                      Are you saying we should discontinue the leased license? If some customers prefer this option, why should we not offer it?
                      Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
                      Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

                      Steve Machol Photography


                      Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


                      Comment

                      • Paul J
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2001
                        • 1053

                        #12
                        Not at all, I think the leased license is a superb idea.

                        I think that charging people on a yearly basis once they have purchased an owned license is unecessary and unfair.

                        Comment

                        • Cyborg from DH
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2002
                          • 305

                          #13
                          would you prefer an upgrade cost, where you pay for every time you want to upgrade to the next version?

                          (ie: windows, photoshop, etc.)

                          Comment

                          • MasterMac
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 417

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Paul J
                            Not at all, I think the leased license is a superb idea.

                            I think that charging people on a yearly basis once they have purchased an owned license is unecessary and unfair.
                            I disagree. These people are constantly working on this software and $35/year really isn't that much. That's like saying "Well I payed for Windows when it was at version 1.0 so I should get XP for free" it's just not going to happen.

                            Comment

                            • Paul J
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2001
                              • 1053

                              #15
                              I've already explained why licenses like vBulletin's and Windows are dead ends.

                              Did you not read the longer posts?

                              Comment

                              widgetinstance 262 (Related Topics) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                              Working...