Check this thread out at Infopop's board

[Freddie Bingham]

I, for one, refuse to close this thread so have fun.

btw, Padders has nailed it at www.threadsdev.com.

[heretic]

oh man I just spit tea over my keyboard laughing so hard

http://www.threadsdev.com/threads/php/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=feedback&Number=47374&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=&vc=1&PHPSESSID=

I posted, then edited, and the code it used couldn't even parse. threads is completely broken. Probably full of holes I bet too.

[The Prohacker]

I just posted there... with this:

I personally find it funny that you only compare mention vbulletin.org's quries, and not any other vBulletin....

vB.org, has many hacks installed which add quries, the standard, main forum page has 19 quries... If you add explain=1, to the end of a url, you will see the page's stats...


IE: http://www.xism.net/vb/index.php?explain=1

Next time, if you are going to spout off about something, atleast know what you are talking about.... I was actually proud of UBB at one time... But now, I have to say I'm disgusted with it....

Lets see how long it takes to get deleted and me banned

[Skeptical]

It's one thing to compare 2 products based on merit, but totally another to resort to personal insults and smoke and mirrors. That vb3 is "vaporware", that it was coded by a "teenager", or that the PHP hole was the fault of Jelsoft even though it looks like ubbdev was the only one that got hacked because of it...

You know, I think it's time to cut the BS. Someone should set up 2 identical servers and have them run the latest vB and ubb, then stress test it and post the results. At least then it would be irrefutable.

Why don't someone at Jelsoft post this challenge to Infpop and see if they will allow for an 3rd-party independent entity to run a comparison, side-by-side?

[wandrer]

My question for IP posts would be:

With all the conversation of ubb verses vb, why did infopop - being 'leaders' in the forum software business - have to go out and purchase wwwthreads to get their own php/mysql forum software ? Could not they have written their own forum software, since they did 'invent' forums?

And as for speed, would you like me to benchmark ubb.threads and compare it to vb - knowing that the last time i did it, vb beat the pants off of wwwthreads?

[wandrer]

We do not bad-mouth other software here (although seeing 2.2.1/2.2.2/2.2.3/2.2.4/2.2.5/ and now 2.2.6 released in rapid succession would make me wonder as a paying customer if anyone is steering the ship up there - seems like they should be able to get it right at some point) - we have no problem comparing this software to any php/mysql product out there...

Ahh, yes... I remember the good old days... Let me paint this picture of UBB:

Version 5.45c - April 16, 2000
Version 5.44b - March 12, 2000
Version 5.44a - February 23, 2000
Version 5.44 - February 19, 2000
Version 5.43d - February 04, 2000
Version 5.43c - January 31, 2000
Version 5.43a - January 21, 2000
Version 5.43 - January 18, 2000
Version 5.42a - January 05, 2000
Version 5.42 - January 01, 2000
Version 5.40 - November 16, 1999
Version 5.39d - November 12, 1999
Version 5.39c - October 07, 1999
Version 5.39b - September 23, 1999
Version 5.39 - September 16, 1999
Version 5.38 - June 21, 1999
Version 5.37 - June 08, 1999
Version 5.36a - June 07, 1999
Version 5.36 - June 07, 1999
Version 5.34a - April 17, 1999
Version 5.34 - April 12, 1999
Version 5.31 - March 29, 1999

Boy, that brings back good memories..... 22 releases in just over 1 year.

[bigmattyh]

Originally posted by Skeptical
Why don't someone at Jelsoft post this challenge to Infpop and see if they will allow for an 3rd-party independent entity to run a comparison, side-by-side?

Sounds like the perfect thing for PC magazine or some other computer/internet mag to do.

[MattR]

ugh. My page has less queries than your page! Nyaaahh!

Vary rarely are there absolutes in programming, and "More queries = more load/latency/etc." is pure B.S. As was said before in the thread, it all depends on what kind of queries they are running and how optimized they are, etc. etc.

More features = more queries, duh!

[BradC]

Anyone mention the fact that a lot of web hosting companies pretty much banned the use of UBB or Yabb, and they recommend the use of vB, phpBB, or Xmb or well something similar that is mysql/php based.

I had to work with UBB a long time ago.. and I just laugh at the thought that people still live, breath, and die by UBB. Scary... lol

The whole teenager comment, and thought processing going on through some ppl directly or indirectly is plain stupid. My cousin which is 15 is teaching ME some things about Visual Basic that I did not know.. lol. Which I think is great!

The things I see is that posting here, a lot of the users are not going to bash this product nor will the ubb fans over at ubb. No one is going to allow their product to be bashed on their own forums.. that just would not be good business, be kind of like shooting your own foot.

I know it does not bother the vB Developers, which probably don't worry about it at all and just do their best and creating and supporting such a great product as vB. Keep it up guys

[Steve Machol]

Originally posted by MattR
More features = more queries, duh!

Maybe he's really saying that vBulletin should remove much of it's features so it's on a more level playing field with UBB. Do I smell an ulterior motive here?

[MattR]

Originally posted by smachol
Maybe he's really saying that vBulletin should remove much of it's features so it's on a more level playing field with UBB. Do I smell an ulterior motive here?

LOL, exactly. It is like taking two cars, one of which is a V8 the other a 4 banger, and saying "Since our car has four cylinders that means we should get better fuel economy than your V8." Well, no. If your 4-banger is 20 years old and burning oil, sure as heck you won't be getting as good gas mileage. Or if the V8 has a turbocharger on it, that will boost efficiency quite considerably.

If, though, they could say "Well, we have exactly the same features for these pages, and then we got the queries down to 4 vs. 11" I would seriously want to know how they did that, considering I can think of more than 4 features on a page which cannot be joined together in a single query!! And again, query optimization means that 5 queries can run in both less time and less I/O (e.g. less server load) than 4, or 3, or 2, or 1 poorly designed queries.

[MattR]

Jebus what kind of bass-ackwards method of permissions is this?

http://www.threadsdev.com/threads/php/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=feedback&Number=46612&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Granted vB's is somewhat confusing at times, but give mods FORUM DELETE permissions and not be able to remove it except for PHP hackery? I'll GLADLY TAKE the extra query to make it easily customizeable!!!

[SaintDog]

// Begin Off-Topic

First to bring up XMB 1.6 from the first round of posts from this thread, unless it has been fixed, XMB has no competition with vBulletin, vBulletin still holds a barrier over them. Last noted, specifically by ZeonHost.com, XMB can run as many as 130+ queries at one time on a non hacked XMB board.

XMB has a "Today's Posts" that uses 1 query to process each post that is brought to the page, now let's say you have 300 new posts that day and you click on that, it is running the 300 queries for the 300 posts from that day + the amount of queries it takes to run the remainder of the forum (usually 15-28). To me, that is poor coding, free or not, that is enough to bring up a crash of the server....

Note: This may have been fixed by now, but not in the version I had downloaded.

// End Off Topic

On to UBB, honestly, I could care less what InfoPop thinks or does, vBulletin still holds a barrier over UBB as well. With InfoPop *just now* coming into the PHP/MySQL era, what does that really say about them? Maybe they are taking notice that the "flat-file" age is over and it is time to move on from having a MySQL database that is 40MB versus a flat-file that is 100MB+.

I really don't know why UBB has such a problem or feels the need to badmouth anyone here, I say go your own way and leave others out of it, it is really only making your product look worse.

I look at the staff here at vBulletin, and they do their best to stay out of conversations that have to do with bad mouthing or threads that may have a conflict of interest. I really do not see them doing anything but working on their already fantastic product and providing support for it. Where as InfoPop feels the need to bash on in an attempt to make their product look better, when it really do not do any good.

Everyday there is someone changing from UBB to another forum software, whether it be vBulletin or one of the free based boards that are on the net, changes are being made.

Honestly, always preferred uploading and running a script over CHMOD'ing 100 files

- SaintDog

[ubbuser]

Ah the good old days with UBB.

I still remember that Search with UBB was a server hog. Then this one guy posted a simple hack that made the server load bearable but IP did not care to optimize it.

I have seen many UBB 6.x boards having problems with caching.

Check out Mtvasia.com http://www.mtvasia.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi which is running UBB 6.1.0.3. Do a search and it spits out:

Sorry, UBB has encountered an unexpected, fatal error. This error is extremely abnormal. Please contact the board administration. The error text is:

Can't open /export/home/apache/newdocs/BuzzStop/ubb/........

Here is the backtrace:
Backtrace: ubb_lib_filehandle.cgi:294 -> sub UBB::FileHandle::tracer
Backtrace: ubb_lib_filehandle.cgi:382 -> sub UBB::FileHandle::_open
Backtrace: ubb_lib_filehandle.cgi:58 -> sub UBB::FileHandle::_open_file
Backtrace: ubb_lib_filehandler.cgi:116 -> sub UBB::FileHandle::new
Backtrace: ubb_lib_files.cgi:501 -> sub UBB::FileHandler:pen
Backtrace: ubb_search.cgi:388 -> sub main::WriteFileAsArray
Backtrace: ultimatebb.cgi:776 -> sub main::do_search

Let's assume it's a site specific problem and not UBB. I have seen that UBB crawls with too many concurrent users so that is why they saw the light and bought out wwwThreads and renamed UBB to UBB.classic

Now the reason wwwThreads is not selling is because in this category then users have a few other choices and their interface needs brushing up IMHO.

There are a few wwwThread boards that are running that are busy if I remember correctly. I would like to see the specs of the machines hosting those boards.

[alexi]

We did UBB and then Open Topic. I was not impressed