100% agreed. It's really worth looking into just how much private data governmental organizations have actually lost simply to the general public to start with, the potential for abuse is very high if it falls into the wrong hands. Additionally Dean, can you tell me with 100% certainty that the data couldn't possibly fall into corrupt hands within a governmental organisation? What is the potential for abuse there? Lastly I'll leave you with this... With information on every single persons browsing habits, email logs, NHS databases, DNA databases, video surveillance... the list goes on... it leaves an awful lot of centralised power, just why do they need that much information on everyone? to what end? For what purpose? And even without a purpose, so much leverage over an individual is severely open to abuse... and history has shown time and time again.. power corrupts... absolute power corrupts absolutely.
UK archiving every email?
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This is pretty shocking and disturbing. Im sure the US is already doing this but come on... Is there no such thing as privacy anymore?
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/136610
Even PGP does not hide that information, so you can't escape it.Comment
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100% agreed. It's really worth looking into just how much private data governmental organizations have actually lost simply to the general public to start with, the potential for abuse is very high if it falls into the wrong hands. Additionally Dean, can you tell me with 100% certainty that the data couldn't possibly fall into corrupt hands within a governmental organisation? What is the potential for abuse there? Lastly I'll leave you with this... With information on every single persons browsing habits, email logs, NHS databases, DNA databases, video surveillance... the list goes on... it leaves an awful lot of centralised power, just why do they need that much information on everyone? to what end? For what purpose? And even without a purpose, so much leverage over an individual is severely open to abuse... and history has shown time and time again.. power corrupts... absolute power corrupts absolutely.Dean Clatworthy - Web Developer/DesignerComment
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As I said before, they are only storing the header information not the actual message content.Comment
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I think this Dean, is something that I would not really explain to anyone, rather it's something that each person should think about with a clear mind individually. Maybe assume you were in a position of power with access to a full array of information on every individual in your County or Union of Countries. Maybe a select handful of the general public find some dirt on you that would severely question your leadership if it became public knowledge. Now if this handful of people were on a database with a full array of information on each one, what could you possibly do to silence them with this information? Think about the number of ludicrous laws out there with no basis in ethics, think about the threat of becoming a social outcast whether or not any skeletons found are illegal, think about what dirt you could find on peoples family members... What other avenues does so much information on every individual open up? further control? Further regulation? Further loss of freedoms, Further surveillance... I realise I've not given you any solid examples on abuse of power in current times, and maybe you'd think there's no way people in a position of power would abuse their positions, but i'm sure if you think hard enough you'll think of many, many... many... And you can find lots more if you do your research. Really I wouldn't take such an invasion of human rights lightly, especially in this time when there is perhaps something that we as an informed collective can still do, to at the very least delay further surveillance...Last edited by Cloud Strife; Fri 10 Apr '09, 5:36am.Comment
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When this type and amount of information is stored about us there is the potential of abuse. Do you really think the information won't be abused? You'd be extremely naive if you think it won't ever happen.
Biometric passports, dna databases, monitoring your physical movements, as well as what you're, or daring to, think (internet). Where will it end? Or where is it all heading?Comment
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There are two different questions here:
1) Can the information be abused?
Most Definitely. All information like any resource or tool can be abused. This is why there are judicial oversights in place on all law enforcement. This is also why people need to know their specific basic rights as both citizens of the countries they live in and non-citizens of the countries they visit. Contrary to popular belief these vary widely around the world. People who live in countries with an elected representative government also need to know who their representatives are and how to contact them. This is your duty if you want to effect change in your nation. It is also your duty to work to remove those who are detrimental to benefiting your society whether they are criminals, politicians or others. You can't sit around and be outraged at the nightly news if you never take action. Armchair citizenry never achieves anything.
2) Will the information be abused?
On this point, it is really doubtful that there will be a lot of abuse. Will a law enforcement official be able to tap a few keys and get his wife's email log? No, because they still have to get it from the ISP. They will need some sort of Written Authorization. It would be easier for him to purchase a $100.00 spyware package and install it on her computer account.
Even if all the databases are connected, individual agencies will still implement checks and balances. They aren't going to have someone sitting there reading the logs of every ISP. It would take millions of employees to do this due to the overwhelming amount of information. In 2003, Yahoo said that it had prevented 2.3 Billion spam messages from reaching the inbox of its customers. Other Research at the time says that 15 Billion spam messages circulate on the internet everyday. AOL stated that an average of 67 spam emails hit the inboxes of their customers every day. (source) Talk about information overload.
That was back in 2003 and the amount of spam has actually increased since then, there are just better end user tools to deal with it. So the chances of Officer Blowhard looking at anyone's email for the whim and suggestion are very slim. Governments aren't going to spend the billions of dollars for Exabytes (1 million Terabytes) of storage needed to store these archives. Think realistically here.
In order to get the information, they are going to need some sort of probable cause. If they have probable cause then you're probably already screwed.Translations provided by Google.
Wayne Luke
The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
vBulletin 5 API👍 1Comment
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This is where i am glad that i use my own E-Mail hosting service.
Is it not classed as "Illegal" to log EVERYONES E-Mails? as the DPA would be heavily involved in that sort of stuff.
Edit: Kinda stupid remark,
But is this legal? and if yes, how is it?Last edited by hitmancode47; Sat 11 Apr '09, 7:20am.Jut a random internet person.
A message to all illegal users!
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Translations provided by Google.
Wayne Luke
The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
vBulletin 5 APIComment
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This reminds me of the tale I heard about the FBI monitoring the whole Internet, and they have RED Flags that pop-up for certain keyworks people constantly search for like: Bomb Making, Terrorists Equipment etc.
Of course they will have another way of getting in, your talking about top secret goverment agencies here, who no doubt will have secret back-door entries on most firewalls sold etc. Does X-Files and Area 51 not ring a bell.Last edited by MRGTB; Fri 10 Apr '09, 4:59pm.Comment
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I assumed though that this thread was about e-mails. Let's face it, they have been able to do this for years, they are just telling us about it now.Comment
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I spoke to a friend of mine, and he says that the E-Mail archive program is just looking for key words in E-Mails like "Bomb" "Terrorism" etc etc..Jut a random internet person.
A message to all illegal users!
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i mean, he works in the data center at the backbone of the internet exchange points?
He is a lecturer in computer science at a leading university, also does consultancy and has written numerous papers on security, algorithms and internet law.Jut a random internet person.
A message to all illegal users!
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Ah cool.
You should ask him if he can find any papers about these sorts of deals or policies, the RFC so to speak. I'd love to read that over and learn more about it.
I certainly do believe they will have the ability to scan for keywords. But .. everybody can say : Michael Jackson was the bomb, he blew my mind, on Tuesday when I went to his concert near the white house ..
Does that mean I from that point on can't fly to the US anymore on tuesdays? They will be so burried in clutter, I can't believe it's exactly what they're doing. There has to be more to this.
I am also pretty certain that people with malicious intent are smart enough to just throw something together and use their own stuff, rather than risk getting caught because they're plain-texting over their isp.Comment
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Channel: vB Cloud Support & Troubleshooting.
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