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  • #91
    Originally posted by Discussions View Post
    The new look for PHPBB is simply awe inspiring (Gorgeous) & I am actually shocked that they went web 2.0'ish before vBulletin did. I am hoping Jelsoft is taking a serious look at PHPBB’s new layout and come out with something as good, if not better than it.


    The Boxy age is over; the new vBulletin default style should have round edges to almost every inch of the style. Please take the great intuitive of upgrading the default skin for vBulletin. All of your major competitors have already updated their default skins from IPB (still awful looking) to PHPBB.
    Well phpbb3 only has taken what? 6 years now?

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    • #92
      Great design indeed! Good for them. However, I still can't understand why they don't sell an extraordinary popular software such as phpBB? If they want to keep something free for the world, they can keep a basic free version & then develop a fully-supported commercial one. Free in "Free Software" does not mean price; it means freedom. They can use a mixture of "Visible Source" policy & licensing system to keep phpBB an open source project, just like what Jelsoft did with vBulletin.
      You're spending millions of dollars on a website?!

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by simsim View Post
        They can the mixture of "Visible Source" & licensing to keep phpBB an open source project, just like Jelsoft did with vBulletin.
        A point of clarification.. Open Source does not mean you can see the source code. It is a dedication to distributing software under a specific model that means the software has no associated cost.

        vBulletin has never been Open Source.
        Translations provided by Google.

        Wayne Luke
        The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud customization and demonstration site.
        vBulletin 5 Documentation - Updated every Friday. Report issues here.
        vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
        I am not currently available for vB Messenger Chats.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Zachery View Post
          Well phpbb3 only has taken what? 6 years now?
          True but the developers are not the top notched ones we have here at vBulletin.com (The developers are not paid for the work they do on PHPBB...which could explain why it has taken so long to develop 3.0. Each PHPBB developer may have other jobs to perform and thus leading to PHPBB Development falling behind. Where as vBulletin.com's developers are all employees of Jelsoft and thus are paid) - and I would hope you guys and gals have something similar planned for a new release (vBulletin 4.0?)

          While I do love the new skin and feel it is better than the default skins from any PHPBB Competitors or their premium counterparts...I am 100% loyal to vBulletin (there is no better forum software available in terms of features.) and I am hoping we won't be left with the Boxy styled default skin for much longer.
          Last edited by Comtech; Thu 29th Mar '07, 12:09pm.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
            A point of clarification.. Open Source does not mean you can see the source code. It is a dedication to distributing software under a specific model that means the software has no associated cost.

            vBulletin has never been Open Source.
            Obviously I wasn't fully aware of the definition of "Open Source", but it looks that source code exposure is a requirement, according to the official definition (Check the original source from OpenSource.org).
            Last edited by simsim; Thu 29th Mar '07, 11:42am.
            You're spending millions of dollars on a website?!

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Kier View Post
              There is absolutely no doubt that semantic XHTML styled with CSS is the way forward and that the use of tables for layout purposes is yesterday's technique.

              The vBulletin development team has done several experiments with this method of producing pages and we will be employing it for vBulletin 4.

              However, these experiments also identified several points which mean that, as Wayne rightly pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no way that we can or will switch to an entirely CSS-driven template system for the vBulletin 3.x system.

              Firstly, we aim to maintain backward compatability for the most part between versions x.y and x.y+1 and the change to an entirely CSS-based system would completely destroy this. We'd be looking at rewriting every single template from the ground up to achieve a semantic XHTML + CSS base.

              Secondly, CSS lends itself to a very different way of laying out pages. Many of the interface elements in vBulletin 3.x simply cannot be reproduced using CSS alone without major hacking, and we'd like to avoid that. For this reason, we decided to stick with the current system for the time being and then start again with a clean slate for vBulletin 4.0, which will most likely look very different from the current 3.x style.

              Thirdly, the vBulletin 3.x style is built around a fairly small group of CSS classes, each of which do little more than define background and foreground colors, text styling and in some cases some padding and border definitions. A style where the layout is controlled exclusively by CSS will require vastly more CSS classes and selectors. Take a look at the gargantuan CSS files used in the new phpBB system and it's obvious that the current vBulletin style editor would struggle to present all of this data in an elegant and user-friendly manner. Even now, the CSS editor page is overly long and unwieldy. When we go with a full CSS system we'll be looking to dramatically change the CSS editor to allow it to better deal with the inevitably larger number of items it will need to control.

              So in conclusion the message is this: Semantic XHTML + CSS is good and you'll see it in use in vBulletin 4 but for the time being we have to stick with the current system.
              I completely understand your reasoning, but it also leaves me with some questions. I'm curious about the possibility of creating a new template engine in addition to the current one. If not for vB3.x, would it be impractical to keep a "legacy" engine in addition to the re-designed one for vB4.x? I'm sure that would make a lot of customers happy. Also, in the move to modernized vB with more semantically correct markup and styling, what part might the community play in that? I'm sure there are plenty willing to contribute work or ideas towards a new default style, but what influence might we have on the new template system itself?

              I'm admittedly new to the world of vBulletin administration, so I might not have the style manager completely sussed out. That said, there are some things I like about it, and others were I feel it could be improved. I enjoy that I can edit templates in the browser, change things like the paths to images and even make minor "point and click" edits to CSS--What I don't like, is that this appears to be difficult to do externally in a text editor should I choose to do so. In that, I'd prefer to see each template in its own file (akin to phpBB3's system), with the option of creating a separate CSS file per template (in addition to a master style sheet). If speed were an issue in the separation of said files, they could be aggregated into a single file when the style is installed.

              And I really don't mean to sound like a critic or someone who knows what's "best"; vBulletin is my favorite among the forum software I've used. I just figure that now would be the time to offer input. Personally, I'd like the ability to more easily create vB styles (templates and CSS) independent of the ACP. I'm not advocating the removal of ACP controls, just more ease for those of us who'd rather circumvent them. . . Additionally, while all the talk of semantically correct markup is good for the future of vB's default style, when I create my own I'd like as much freedom as possible. If that means displaying tabular data with CSS, or nesting table upon table, I feel I should be able to do so no matter how beautiful or ridiculous.
              Last edited by tjr; Thu 29th Mar '07, 10:10pm.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by simsim View Post
                Obviously I wasn't fully aware of the definition of "Open Source", but it looks that source code exposure is a requirement, according to the official definition (Check the original source from OpenSource.org).
                Source code must be available to be considered "Open Source." One of the fundamental ideas behind Open Source Software is that anybody can modify it to their own liking.

                I believe what Wayne was trying to clarify, is that the ability to view the source does not make it "Open Source."

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by simsim View Post
                  Obviously I wasn't fully aware of the definition of "Open Source", but it looks that source code exposure is a requirement, according to the official definition (Check the original source from OpenSource.org).
                  Yes, but vBulletin's license doesn't allow for items 1 and 3 or the freely obtainable part of item 2 in that list. Those are just as key to being "open source" as being able to view the source code.
                  Translations provided by Google.

                  Wayne Luke
                  The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud customization and demonstration site.
                  vBulletin 5 Documentation - Updated every Friday. Report issues here.
                  vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                  I am not currently available for vB Messenger Chats.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Zachery View Post
                    Well phpbb3 only has taken what? 6 years now?
                    phpBB 3 may have taken some time, but the new style was announced at most about a year ago, so it didn't take nearly as long.
                    Forums

                    Comment


                    • So 6 years to make the new forum and 1 year to make the style? Still...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Zachery View Post
                        So 6 years to make the new forum and 1 year to make the style? Still...
                        Well, it's going to be slow with no permanent developers or source of income. Look at development of OpenOffice... it's the same way. 2.2 is just being released now, after being in the works since at least 2004.
                        Forums

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                        • phpBB2 was released 6 years ago. I hardly think they would have started developing phpBB3 the minute after.
                          vBulletin 5.0 coming soon... :confused:
                          Visit my site today!

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                          • Looks really nice

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                            • Originally posted by forumguy View Post
                              phpBB2 was released 6 years ago. I hardly think they would have started developing phpBB3 the minute after.
                              Actually, I believe they were working on a branch of phpBB3 before the final release of phpBB2.
                              Translations provided by Google.

                              Wayne Luke
                              The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud customization and demonstration site.
                              vBulletin 5 Documentation - Updated every Friday. Report issues here.
                              vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                              I am not currently available for vB Messenger Chats.

                              Comment


                              • Well I must differ from others here, because I don't like the new look of phpbb over the old style. And the post icons are nowhere near as nice as the old ones. I'm also not much of a fan of rounded off corners also.

                                Yeah, the new web coding is a big leap forward for them and great news. But the new style leaves a lot to be desired if you ask me

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