vBulletin Afraid To Add New Features... But Why?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • brinnie

    vBulletin Afraid To Add New Features... But Why?

    Not just Jelsoft, but the community as well.
    • How many times have you heard someone say don't add "this" feature?
    • How many times have you witnessed a member on THIS VERY BOARD shoot down another members request?
    • How many times have you watched a staff member dismiss a request because he deems it a security vulnerability?
    • How many times have you seen someone say that adding more features would confuse noobs?

    How many times?





    Listen.
    And try to keep an open mind.



    Other software companies... No, not all software companies, but many, will add a new feature at the drop of a hat, providing a "use at own risk" disclaimer. Namely,IPB.

    I'm sorry to reference to IPB again, but I have nothing else to go on. Invision is the board I administrated for 5 years, it is the board I beta tested and developed on. Sue me.

    Scattered about the IPB ACP are some features that you might not want to use. Many of them bear disclaimers such as:
    This feature is NOT recommended unless you trust all your members
    This community shot down the idea of using remote URL's in avatar- a feature I have grown accustom to for 5 years. And for what? Staff says:

    "Because IPB has it doesn't mean we have to."

    No, you don't have to. No one has to do anything. But that's not a valid reason so not include a feature. You want a valid reason? I'll give you a valid reason:

    'Security'
    Apparently, (even though I've never had a problem) apparently, enabling this feature puts your board at risk to hackers running scripts on you. But even then, I strongly stand by Admin Choice.

    Because some admins aren't power hungry nazis that go around banning and penalizing their members all day long to the point where they would want to hack your board: I firmly stand by Admin Choice.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	sw.gif
Views:	1
Size:	23.4 KB
ID:	3698475





    What I don't understand, is if another board could one-up you with certain features, why wouldn't you implement them? That makes makes about as much sense to me as Scientology.


    Every single time I make a feature request, there's someone waiting to challenge it. And for what? What is the purpose?

    Who is anyone to say: "No please DON'T do what she is asking. Moderator permissions are perfect the way they are. Site owners should control the powers the mods have - not the code..."








    ?















    I wish everyone got their feature request filled. Why in the world would would someone want to say something like that?
    And especially after the lengths I go through to craft a post that I believe contains an ingenious idea- that's like the worst thing you can say. And even though that was like, 2 weeks ago, I still remember!

    People wonder why I'm so sharp tongued and why I get easily frustrated... Well, I wonder why the leading BB software is lacking in simple features. I've tasted IPB and vB and I'm sorry, I want the best of both worlds.

    Since the minute I laid my eyes on deviantART, I knew I wanted my own. I have fought for years to get it and spent thousands... I wonder how many others can remember what impulsed them to start a community and whether or not their feature requests are indeed features from that very same community they so loath... That very desire has put me on the edge. And because my patience is running dry, I'm about to be banned from these forums. But that's ok, I never felt like a customer here anyway. So I guess all I have left now... Is a hope that my point is heard?



    So you don't like someones idea. But does that make it worthless? Because you're not going to use it?

    I personally have no need for an avatar gallery, do you?
    What if I said that vB should toss the reputation system because I think it's pointless and that I don't like having to look at that extra column in my ACP?
    And what if, buy chance, every feature requested was added?
    What if "Bloated" wasn't ever really a valid issue? What if...

    Well, let's look at it in posting terms. I'm sure we can all relate to that, right? Where WYSIWYG = "Bloated" let Standard Text Editor = "Deflated"

    And what do you do with a bloated post screen? I'm only quite sure you click and switch it off, right? The same could be said for extra features.
    • POINT: If you don't like it, you don't have to use it.
    Because no one has to do anything. But it sure would be nice if the Admin had the Choice.



    People see what they want to see, so it is written. But I think it's all one big vB fanboy circle-jerk conspiracy. Don't add this, don't add that... You're afraid. When 2.3.7 was out, they shot down half of the ideas that now make up 3.5. And now the fear is at an all time high, they're shooting down features that make up 4.0.

    There are those in this community saying that adding a new features would be confusing to n00bs. I have to question that.
    Why do you care?
    What possesses someone to say such a thing, when they're obviously not a n00b?

    I see a lot of people saying "that can't be done." or that it would "cause problems"... That's not a memorable quote by far. But this is:

    "For every problem, there is a solution." -HL Mencken

    Without even thinking about it, I came up with a solution to both the n00b problem and the bloated problem. Pack it all into one category and label it: Advanced Options.

    I have a DSL modem... Yes, I do. It's made for n00bs- anyone can operate it. But before you can Google your hearts content, you have to initiate it. The main page consists of only a few options such as username/password, connect and restart. But in bottom right the corner, there's a button that says Expert Mode. Click it and you are prompted with this message:
    Click image for larger version

Name:	expert.gif
Views:	1
Size:	7.0 KB
ID:	3698474

    I'm only 98% sure, but that should be enough to keep any n00b from going in and screwing their board up. And in that unlikely event, I'm only 99% sure that thy would have no leverage in blaming Jelsoft for anything- If that's what you're worried about.

    vB could have such a page. On that page you could configure and fine tune all forum permissions, all user permissions all posting permissions and all profile permissions.
    If you want to allow members to view IP's; if you trust your community and want to use dynamic images; If you want to allow your users to use HTML, but not the <embed> or <table> tag; as Admin, that should be your Choice.







    My vote goes to "At lease make it an option". Because that is what it will ultimately comes down to.

    The Administrator should be in control of his board. Not your members. Not Jelsoft and Not someone on a forum who doesn't like your idea.


    -Ms. Brinnie


    Last edited by Guest; Thu 11 Aug '05, 11:12am. Reason: P.S. bring back karma, kthxbi
  • andrewpfeifer
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2000
    • 729
    • 3.5.x

    #2
    Every time you walk into a Ford dealership, should you be able to tell them they should put a V12 into a Focus and expect them to do it solely because Lamborghini happens to have one in a car that you like? It may be your choice whether or not you want it, but it's their choice whether or not they do it.
    - Andrew Pfeifer

    Comment

    • brinnie

      #3
      Originally posted by andrewpfeifer
      Every time you walk into a Ford dealership, should you be able to tell them they should put a V12 into a Focus and expect them to do it solely because Lamborghini happens to have one in a car that you like? It may be your choice whether or not you want it, but it's their choice whether or not they do it.
      I hate when people use irrelevant metaphors.
      I could find relativity in illustrations sold on eBay

      Good laugh, never the less.

      Comment

      • andrewpfeifer
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2000
        • 729
        • 3.5.x

        #4
        They provide a product. You want more features on that product. They won't add them because they don't feel the need and do not wish to deal with them under the warranty they provide for the product.

        I'd love for you to list the three ways in which my comment was irrelevant.
        - Andrew Pfeifer

        Comment

        • brinnie

          #5
          Originally posted by andrewpfeifer
          They provide a product. You want more features on that product. They won't add them because they don't feel the need and do not wish to deal with them under the warranty they provide for the product.

          I'd love for you to list the three ways in which my comment was irrelevant.
          You're metaphor is irrelavent and cuts more ways than a Swiss Army knife. Although I could do twenty, (3) is a good round number and I would be delighted to grant you thee.

          The Ford dealership doesn't have a Suggestions and Feedback forum.
          The Ford dealership doesn't release beta cars.
          The Ford dealership doesn't sell $100.00 cars.

          Now why do you challenge me?

          Comment

          • Reeve of Shinra
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2001
            • 4325
            • 4.0.0

            #6
            Lets get right down to basics here. I browse the vbulletin related sites just to keep up on on certain things and I happen to come across alot of your posts and I could generally sum up all of your threads with a simple sentance of "IPB does something like this, why doesn't VB" but even that is putting a nicer spin on it than I would use if this were on my own board.

            I wont say that all of the ideas are bad ones but some of your ideas are quite simply outside the scope of a forum system while others have legitimate security and/or performance related issues which the dev's and other members knowledgable in programing have time and again carefully explained but these answers never seem to satisfy you.

            So my question is why? If vbulletin is not the right product for you, and IPB seems to meet more of your needs, then why not convert over to it? I seem to recall you being banned from thier forums but perhaps I heard you wrong. Alternately, you could roll your own with the features that you specifically need or want.

            Now.... lets see....

            vBulletin Afraid To Add New Features... But Why?

            Not just Jelsoft, but the community as well.
            Members are not afriad to add new features as you can see from the well thriving hacking community at vb.org, the commercially available add-on's that are also provided, and the third party applications that were specifically designed to intergrate with VBulletin.

            Some of the more popular and requested hacks from vb2 became standard with vb3 (if not earlier), features such as quick reply and reputation (karma) that were later "borrowed" by other competitors but hey its all good.

            If anything, I am amazed by the vbulletin staff's willingness to listen, there feedback on ideas, and thier support. Do we get everything? No, perhaps not, but we are accomodated more often than you tend to give credit for and 1000% more than we would if this were any other kind of organization.

            "Use at your own risk"

            This is fine for some things but what about features that are blatently a security risk? I'm glad vbulletin doesn't include them. If nothing else I wouldn't either because if something were to go wrong, it would be my name that was tarnished. Look at phpbb, great software but everyones first thought it how unsecure it is. Not so with vbulletin. If other software companies concede to every request its because they are the underdog looking to take a bite out of the market share vbulletin has come to dominate. Thats simply business - especially the business of start-ups. There is always a time when this comes to an end but enough on that.

            remote URL's in avatar
            I don't care either way on this item but its obviously of some importance to you. Since you willingly hack features into your board, why not solve your immediate need and have someone code this in for you. If somone didn't do it for free, I am sure it wouldn't cost much to hire someone to do it. Alternately, this is a good way to learn php programming for yourself as many of us have doone.

            Every single time I make a feature request, there's someone waiting to challenge it. And for what? What is the purpose?
            Its because of your attitude dear and the 'tone of voice' you take. The way you ask questions immediately begs for arguement rather than assistance.

            Who is anyone to say: "No please DON'T do what she is asking. Moderator permissions are perfect the way they are. Site owners should control the powers the mods have - not the code..."
            And who are you to ask for modification in the first place? Obviously everyone whether we agree or not has the right to thier own opinions and in that particular users case they obviously believe the moderator permissions system is fine and they dont want to loose what they believe works, a belief they are entitled to having. This is a two way street and its hypocrytical for you to claim one while denying hte other.

            I wonder how many others can remember what impulsed them to start a community and whether or not their feature requests are indeed features from that very same community they so loath...
            Since you asked, our site was started because of totalitarian like admins on other sites and we aimed to make a difference by starting our own site with different rules. We succeeded.

            FEATURES DO NOT MAKE THE SITE

            Our hacks make the board fun but it in no way shape or form is the reason for our succeess, our attitude, our staff and our members are the reason why we have done so well. Dont make the mistake many others make by forgetting the community and focusing on the features.

            Because no one has to do anything. But it sure would be nice if the Admin had the Choice.
            You had a choice on what forum to use for your site and you obviously choose vbulletin....

            When 2.3.7 was out, they shot down half of the ideas that now make up 3.5. And now the fear is at an all time high, they're shooting down features that make up 4.0.
            I beg to differ, many of us are very excited over the recent changes from 3.0 to 3.5 and I eagerly wait for the day 4.0 is released but I digress...

            My vote goes to "At lease make it an option". Because that is what it will ultimately comes down to.
            And are you willing to pay for hte development and support of options that a releative few would want?
            Plan, Do, Check, Act!

            Comment

            • brinnie

              #7
              Originally posted by Reeve of Shinra
              Lets get right down to basics here. I browse the vbulletin related sites just to keep up on on certain things and I happen to come across alot of your posts and I could generally sum up all of your threads with a simple sentance of "IPB does something like this, why doesn't VB" but even that is putting a nicer spin on it than I would use if this were on my own board.
              Thanks for keeping an open mind.

              Conversation Over.

              Comment

              • conqsoft
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2003
                • 3803
                • 3.6.x

                #8
                Originally posted by brinnie
                You're metaphor is irrelavent and cuts more ways than a Swiss Army knife. Although I could do twenty, (3) is a good round number and I would be delighted to grant you thee.

                The Ford dealership doesn't have a Suggestions and Feedback forum.
                The Ford dealership doesn't release beta cars.
                The Ford dealership doesn't sell $100.00 cars.

                Now why do you challenge me?
                Ford does has a feedback line, and e-mail address.

                They do release vehicles that are not production, in order to get feedback from those that they release them to.

                Going by your logic since they sell MUCH more expensive products, they should be MUCH MORE attentive to what customer's want, so this one makes no sense.
                vBulletin v3.8.0's Implementation of Google Adsense Should Be Avoided At All Costs - Do Your Own Adsense Implementation

                Comment

                • brinnie

                  #9
                  Originally posted by conqsoft
                  Ford does has a feedback line, and e-mail address.

                  They do release vehicles that are not production, in order to get feedback from those that they release them to.

                  Going by your logic since they sell MUCH more expensive products, they should be MUCH MORE attentive to what customer's want, so this one makes no sense.
                  Why do you challenge me?

                  Comment

                  • conqsoft
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 3803
                    • 3.6.x

                    #10
                    Originally posted by brinnie
                    Thanks for keeping an open mind.

                    Conversation Over.
                    I like how you conveniently only respond to the the parts you want, when the rest of that person's post made VERY good points.
                    vBulletin v3.8.0's Implementation of Google Adsense Should Be Avoided At All Costs - Do Your Own Adsense Implementation

                    Comment

                    • Reeve of Shinra
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2001
                      • 4325
                      • 4.0.0

                      #11
                      Thanks for keeping an open mind.

                      Conversation Over.
                      Your welcome. I'm glad you agree with my points and that were able to discuss this in a calm adult like fashion.
                      Plan, Do, Check, Act!

                      Comment

                      • conqsoft
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 3803
                        • 3.6.x

                        #12
                        Originally posted by brinnie
                        Why do you challenge me?
                        See what I mean?
                        vBulletin v3.8.0's Implementation of Google Adsense Should Be Avoided At All Costs - Do Your Own Adsense Implementation

                        Comment

                        • sabret00the
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 1044
                          • 3.0.7

                          #13
                          ooooooooh a survey
                          • How many times have you heard someone say don't add "this" feature? a few times
                          • How many times have you witnessed a member on THIS VERY BOARD shoot down another members request? many a times, some are very stupid and pointless
                          • How many times have you watched a staff member dismiss a request because he deems it a security vulnerability? once but that was Zachery being dumb as opposed to speaking from an elevated position
                          • How many times have you seen someone say that adding more features would confuse noobs? none

                          Comment

                          • Zachery
                            Former vBulletin Support
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 59097

                            #14
                            Originally posted by brinnie
                            You're metaphor is irrelavent and cuts more ways than a Swiss Army knife. Although I could do twenty, (3) is a good round number and I would be delighted to grant you thee.

                            The Ford dealership doesn't have a Suggestions and Feedback forum.
                            The Ford dealership doesn't release beta cars.
                            The Ford dealership doesn't sell $100.00 cars.

                            Now why do you challenge me?
                            but ford is a company that makes a product that the masses demand
                            Ford does take suggestions and feedback
                            Ford chooses to listen and either impliment or ingore those suggestions or feedback
                            Ford does sell both low end and high end cards, of course not for 100 dollars mind you.

                            But the his metaphor is fine.

                            We are not going to impliment features that contain potential security risks, there is no reason to open ourselfs up to somthing like that. But the code is vieable and you are more than welcome to make it happen.

                            As far as remote urls, you do have a choice, you have the choice to a, leave it as is, b find some work around with the present structure of the system or c, hack it in. There is your choice.


                            "For every problem, there is a solution." -HL Mencken
                            Doesn't mean theres a GOOD solution that is viable to our entire userabase.

                            We are constantly looking for new features, evaluating new ideas and thoughts and looking over the suggestions. Just because they don't make it into 3.5 or didn't make it into 3.0 or even 2.x, doesn't mean we don't have them inmind for the future. But if we took every suggestion ever made, the vB Admincp would be ever more daunting to a first time user, and vBulletin 3.5 would still be in private beta where you couldn't get your hands on it.

                            Comment

                            • brinnie

                              #15
                              In my head and in my heart, I know the formula to make the best board in the world.

                              There is no amount of evidence that can replace that.

                              Comment

                              widgetinstance 262 (Related Topics) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                              Working...