Feedback/discussion: Why Drupal is vB's biggest threat

[Razasharp]

For many of us, forums are not enough - and closed systems (such as one purpose add-ons) are not flexible enough either. We need open ended systems with a unified approach to content, so we can get creative and make sites without restrictions imposed on us by the software makers.

For a long time many of us have said that Drupal is one of the best community site platforms, but their forums are not as good as vBs. However, given all the extra community areas you do get with Drupal, the forums play less of a part in a site anyway, right? So are they actually 'good enough'?. Well I came across a Drupal site recently who's implementation of the forums surprised me. Intuitively thought out, well designed (although I'd personally like to see more user info in the postbit) and are actually very active - I think they are almost perfect for the job/site! You see them here: http://www.playfire.com/a/forums

Thw whole site is pretty awesome (much of it you need to see after signing up, such as custom themes, how things are added to your profile, how trophies are added etc) - now wouldn't it be amazing if vB was just as flexible?

vB is meant to be an 'instant community' platform, but it's really no more than a forum, with a few bits added on that you can only use as intended (vB projects could have been amazing if we weren't restricted to using them just for 'projects'!) The key to drupals success (apart from it's flexibility) is that it allows you to build a community over an actual topic - thanks to it allowing you to create a database of whatever your community is about. Eg in the example I posted in this thread, the site revolves around games. Games which are added to a database, and then 're-used' all over the site. They can be added to your profile, you can 'follow/watch' game related threads/groups/news etc ..everything is linked. You really do need to take a look to see what I mean tho.

So why am I posting this? Because I want to show the decision makers here what I would love to see vB evolve into - you have the talent, the vB coders are some of the best around (!) now if you only put them to use to create a product that webmasters/admins out there want. Don't make the mistake of thinking you can build add-ons for the most common things and people will buy them, however many you do you will still be restricted compared to an open-platform - so build an open ended system that can be used in a number of different ways, and it will have much wider market appeal.

[Shelby]

VB's biggest threat isn't Drupal, it is their own inaction, failure to forsee simple trends, and a lackluster ability to impliment their own products. Blogs, albums (should be gallery), CMS hellooo?

[TheBuzzSaw]

There is one thing that vBulletin needs to understand: vBulletin is in the CMS domain whether they like or not because forums are essentially community-driven web sites. I repeatedly hear the excuse that "vBulletin focuses on forums" or "vBulletin will never make an official CMS". This very mentality will be vBulletin's undoing. Even the most technologically challenged people are becoming proficient enough in BB code to create entire web pages in forums. Example: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196906 -- This is a guide to a video game character. See all the images and layout? Forums ARE sites operated by fans.

I am also of the opinion that vB needs to rethink its licensing schemes. Open source solutions are improving rapidly. The fact that Drupal is even brought up as a viable opponent to vBulletin should be a major red flag to a lot of people (even if everyone "proved" that vB was still the superior choice).

[ManagerJosh]

I'm going to stick my head out here and say Drupal is far from a threat to vBulletin. I found something more of a threat. I won't disclose it quite yet as a bunch of us old vB holders have been fiddling around with it.

[djxcee]

http://www.playfire.com runs on Drupal? really...

Drupal is a threat, but so is every social networking scripts out there.

[MRGTB]

VB's biggest threat isn't Drupal, it is their own inaction, failure to forsee simple trends, and a lackluster ability to impliment their own products. Blogs, albums (should be gallery), CMS hellooo?

I agree, they should be just like IPB's are. And they are a very poor attempt at trying to offer what people have been asking for a very long time: A "Galley" and a "CMS". Not what we have now called Social Networking tools. I seriously don't know what vBulletin's problem is when it comes to creating a CMS and a Gallery. Who's toe's are they afraid of stepping on? Or is there another reason why they refuse to create them?

Because people have been asking for them long enough now, to have been created by them years ago. And everytime a CMS and Gallery thread is started here, they don't want to know! Talk about not listening to your customers...

Come the 17th Dec, because of things like this. I will no longer be re-newing my vB licence for the first time ever. I'm finished with being taken for a fool!

[ridemonkey]

Razasharp - are you certain that site runs on Drupal? If so, very impressive.

And you are absolutely correct. My business is at a virtual standstill because I can't find the right software to develop my forums into full featured CMS/communities. In the meantime, my competitors that started with something like Drupal are killing me.

[sinucello]

Hi,

Razasharp - are you certain that site runs on Drupal? If so, very impressive.

And you are absolutely correct. My business is at a virtual standstill because I can't find the right software to develop my forums into full featured CMS/communities. In the meantime, my competitors that started with something like Drupal are killing me.

the Drupal forums still lack a lot of the features vBulletin has and more important some of the features users need. Even when you use the advanced forum module. But they make progress. This thread gives a good overview of what is possible and what is not:
http://drupal.org/node/56127

As there are Drupal/vBulletin integration solutions available:
http://www.vbdrupal.org/vbulletin_dr...gration_matrix
I don`t understand why your competitors are killing you just because they use Drupal, you can do so, too.

all the best,
Sacha

[goyo]

This thread is wrong on so many levels.

To develop a portal like Playfire takes a year and you have all the options to start to create with vBulletin right now.

There are at least 2 bridges to Drupal and 3 to Joomla and both up to the job (and there's at least 10 other CMS that can use vBulletin user table). With vB 4 you'll get the options to develop a similar portal without the bridges...but still it takes year and a team (at least graphic designer and a good programmer or programmers) to develop something unique. I'm working with all of them all the time...there's no easy way around even you have the right tools and framework.

[3dsoft]

At the end Drupal will cost you much more than vbulletin or you will have an out of the box drupal site with less social features combined with an old design.

[MRGTB]

I really don't see how Drupal is a threat at all. For starters many more people choose to use Wordpress over Drupal these days anyway. No longer is it a close run thing between the two.

What's interesting here though, I visit a very popular WP Blog, and I mean "very popular". They get more than 50-60 replies to each article they make on their Blog each day, sometimes posting on an average of 2 articles per day (which = over 100 replies made) on the WP Blog on them.

Now here is the most interesting part, they also have vBulletin installed as their community software. Yet, most people choose to post their replies on the blog, rather than use the forum. And the forums are basicly dead, while the blog is buzzing with each new article posted.

Trends have shifted now, and all because Drupal may have it's own forum intergration means nothing from I've seen so far. Just using this Blog I visit daily as a prime example.

[Razasharp]

The reason why forum integration is important is because a unified structure is important - meaning threads can be categorised with the same system that the blogs or articles can. So people can go to a drupal site, and go to a category, eg: PS3, and easily find threads, articles, news, groups, profiles, whatever, categorised as PS3 related. And once the system is set up that can be true of any item.

vB could have done something similar with the tag system - it should have been carried over to blogs, groups, profiles, albums, pictures etc and then each tag should have been given an index, eg, list of latest forum posts related to that tag, list of latest blogs, profiles, groups, etc. In other words a proper hub. Drupal even allows rss feeds for it!

Drupals strength lies in that, that your site can be based on a database of whatever your site is about - along with it all being seamlessly integrated.

I'm using Acquia Drupal for my next site, and the more I get into it the more I love it!

[ridemonkey]

As there are Drupal/vBulletin integration solutions available:
http://www.vbdrupal.org/vbulletin_dr...gration_matrix
I don`t understand why your competitors are killing you just because they use Drupal, you can do so, too.

Those products have not been updated in a long time. I'm not sure that there is even one bridge solution for the latest Drupal release.

[Wayne Luke]

I'm using Acquia Drupal for my next site, and the more I get into it the more I love it!

You do realize that Acquia is a highly modified version of Drupal with over 20 custom modules included. It isn't representative of a default Drupal installation. Also it seems that you are comfortable with PHP programming which is a required knowledge when working with Drupal based sites. Maybe not as much as building a CMS from scratch but you still need quite a bit of PHP knowledge to create and optimize a Drupal website.

Many of our customers are not comfortable with PHP. Nor do they wish to learn programming because its not their trade. This single reason is probably why Wordpress is used as a CMS more often than Drupal even though that isn't its primary application goal. There is a reason why Drupal is called the Programmer's CMS. After a site is setup and all the features are added, someone can most likely add content and manage it but you will need a full time programmer to maintain it.

As for vbDrupal... I think its dead. Which is a shame because it was a promising project. They haven't even released 6.X support yet and Drupal 7 will probably be released soon.

[Razasharp]

Highly modified? It just comes prepackaged with some of Drupals best modules that are commonly used with community orientated Drupal sites.

Don't forget Drupal modules are not like vBulletin 'hacks/plug-ins'. Drupal modules are pretty much its backbone, part of the whole Drupal philosophy.