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Global warming: be worried, be very worried

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  • #16
    I don't think anyone is saying that this is solely our fault. But the way we're treating the environment is just making it a lot, lot worse. In the long run things could be much better if we were to be better about things.
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    • #17
      There is masses of evidence, but what type of evidence would you take as "proof". This is hardly something that can be prooved beyond all doubt, in the same way it is impossible to proove that the sun won't suddenly stop burning tomorrow.

      However, 95%+ of scientists researching climate change all agree that

      a) the earth is warming far faster than natural cycles
      b) a considerable cause of this is the increase in greenhouse gases and that
      c) humans are a considerable cause of this increase in greenhouse gases

      Maybe you have done some personal research that contradicts the claims by almost all climate scientists that you could post here.
      Christopher Padfield
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      • #18
        And I wasn't talking about tree's emitting carbon... I was talking about methane. You know... the stuff you scare mongers think are bringing us to apocalypse.
        Do you know what is in Methane? Do you know what is in Carbon Dioxide? Can you see a link between these two and carbon fixation.

        Look, it's very simple. Plants take in gases and pump out gases, in exactly the same way humans do. Even if they did not fix some of these gases, they would not be doing anything "bad". Thing is they do fix some carbon which is why we need more forrests.

        Burning oil however is different. You are talking carbon that has already been removed from the air and returning it too the air. Thus greenhouse gases increase.

        So: plants = greenhouse gases down, burning plans (or oil) = greenhouse gases up.

        ahh, kevinmanphp I see you deleted your post.
        Christopher Padfield
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        • #19
          Well I just think the whole global warming thing is funny. I didn't want to break balls with anyone But the way I see it, it's laughable to think we are ruining the world by ourselves.

          What do "global warming" people suggest the world do? Should trucks and high emission vehicles be banned? Do we need more windmills? Maybe we should just sieze any R&D for anything that emits gases. And if the world is too far gone by now anyway... why not just live it up if we are going to die in 10 years anyway

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          • #20
            That's the kind of attitude that we can't afford IMO. It's the "let someone else deal with it" outlook on the situation.
            -- Christopher
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            • #21
              Well I am asking... what do you suggest people do? What have you done to help global warming?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by kevinmanphp
                Well I just think the whole global warming thing is funny. I didn't want to break balls with anyone But the way I see it, it's laughable to think we are ruining the world by ourselves.
                Why exactly do you find it laughable that we can cause global warming? We could effectivly destroy the whole environment of this planet by blowing up a couple of dozen nuclear bombs - why do you find it surprising we can cause monumentous damage through more every day actions?

                What do "global warming" people suggest the world do? Should trucks and high emission vehicles be banned? Do we need more windmills? Maybe we should just sieze any R&D for anything that emits gases. And if the world is too far gone by now anyway... why not just live it up if we are going to die in 10 years anyway
                Nothing needs to be banned, it just needs to be priced correctly and then the market will work it out. Fortunatly it's very easy to price emissions - its the cost of ebatment. Find out what it costs to build a tree - pay people to build forests and charge people who emit co2 for doing so. It's called a carbon tax - very simple to impose and leaves the market to work out how to allocate everything.

                That, and massive investment into non carbon emitting fuels. The market istn't going to do the necessary research because the market is too short sighted, it thinks on 10 year basis only.

                Reducing our emissions is neither complicated or particularly expensive - it just needs a universal will to see that it is necessary. Humans however are notoriously short sighted so as usual we won't do anything about it until it's too late, at which point it will cost us hundreds of times as much to fix what would be relativly easy (say 1% GDP) now.
                Christopher Padfield
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by kevinmanphp
                  Well I am asking... what do you suggest people do? What have you done to help global warming?
                  http://www.carbonneutral.com/shop/re...p?cat1=Flights
                  Christopher Padfield
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                  • #24
                    I'm not arguing against the fact that humans contribute to global warming, my point is that while it is a problem that needs to be dealt with I think the scare mongering that goes on in the mass media builds these things up into something that is out of proportion to the problem.

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                    • #25
                      problem that needs to be dealt with
                      Unfortunatly it seems a lot of people that make the decisions don't agree, and almost nothing is being done. A little bit of scare mongering might be useful - even if I thought it was scare mongering, which I don't - in fact I think very few people really understand the human and economic costs that global warming could inflict. Imagine a few hundred Katrinas.
                      Christopher Padfield
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                      • #26
                        Imagine a world were oil, gas and coal were no longer economically viable goods to sell and see the effect on the world economy then.
                        Last edited by Cromulent; Mon 27th Mar '06, 12:35pm.

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                        • #27
                          Imagine a world were oil, gas and coal were no longer economically viable goods to sell and see the effect on the world economy then.
                          You do like setting up straw men don't you. No one is for a minute suggesting we suddenly stop using any of these goods, and in fact a lot of the uses of oil do not have to emit greenhouse gases (oil is used in pretty much everthing you see in your living room, another reason why we shouldn't waste it by burning it).

                          All people who care about this issue want is for oil to be priced at it's real cost - which includes the externality of the emissions. Alternative energies are almost cost efficient against oil - and that is with absolute minimal investment in utilising this energy - which currently is horribly inefficien (what is it, 1% for solar?). Some more investment and energy can be cheaper than it is now.

                          This is the thing, we have access to almost unlimited clean energy if we so want to invest in it, but currently no one with serious cash is doing so. The market won't because the returns are too down the line for shareholders to go for it and national government's don't seem to be willing. It's a shame, not just because of the environmental damage the status quo has but also because of the geo-political ramifications on the reliance of oil but also because energy could be a lot cheaper than it currently is, and at the same time be "green". This would be good for everyone.
                          Christopher Padfield
                          Web Based Helpdesk
                          DeskPRO v3.0.3 Released - Download Demo Now!

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                          • #28
                            You do like setting up straw men don't you.
                            Yep.

                            This is the thing, we have access to almost unlimited clean energy if we so want to invest in it
                            Thats my point, people don't want to invest as the major companies either have shares already in the oil, gas or coal industry or are related to them in some way. Obviously not all companies, but it is amazing how interelated they all seem.

                            There is only a finite amount of energy the world needs, if we have an infinite supply of cheap energy then prices fall and so do profits hence the lack of investment.

                            Edit : In summary money > morals for a lot of people I'm afraid.
                            Last edited by Cromulent; Tue 28th Mar '06, 11:08am.

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                            • #29
                              Science does not deal in proofs, only in evidence and working theories. To proclaim either position to be absolutely true is to invoke faith.

                              Advocating that humans are not responsible for global warming does not necessitate "ignoring the evidence."

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                              • #30
                                Global warming has certain conatations invoked through its portrayal in the media. While one could assume that natural global warming is in essence the same thing as man made global warming this ignores the fact that the Earth does indeed follow a cycle in which it warms and cools (hence Ice Ages etc).

                                There is scientific evidence which backs up both claims and the one I am more inclinded to believe is that it is simply part of the Earths natural cycle. Thats all I can really say on the subject, I'm by no means an expert on global warming.

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