Last call for 1.1.2 beta...and update on the free version

[John]

I have uploaded a fresh version tonight that includes all the know bug fixes. Existing 1.1.2 users should just upload the files on top. Previous versions should follow the instructions in the members area.

You should also check that you have the latest versions of the following templates if you upgraded to 1.1.2 previously:

loggedinusers activateemail activateemailsubject error_registeremail getinfo newthread

Most of these are minor and not essential. activateemail is probably the most important change.

This message is basically a last call for any problems with 1.1.2 . It has been on beta for a week now, so I would like to declare it fit and stable tomorrow evening.

Lastly, I am happy to announce that the free version will be available very soon. The aim of this script is to check that your server can run vBulletin before buying. I am hoping that it will be available in beta tomorrow evening, UK time.

Thanks!
John

[doron]

it says on my boards "HTML code is OFF. Smilies are ON. vB code is ON. [IMG] code is OFF." even if I selected all as on.


See thread http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=800

I just uploaded the newest zip, and still see it

[jucs]

Still waiting patiently for the free edition. :)

[ilya]

I think it would be better if you could make free edition work for only, say, 15 days but have all features. That way a user can
a) check if the full version can run on his server
b) explore the features
c) get to know full version's coding.
You can probably put some code that would check for how long the script was used already....

Just a suggestion :)

[Martin]

since it's not compiled code, there is no way to put an effective expiry on it. anyone worth their salt could easily fond and remove and expiry script from open source software like this.

[shri]

Given that it uses mysql, the software could be forced to grab parts of the templates or other stuff from vBulletin's servers. Lots of fun ways to implement security when you're not based around a flat file implementation.

[ktvktv]

hi, Is it possible for u to sell an perl version of vbulletin? I am not familiar with php at all.......

[Menno]

that's the whole idea of vB
a php/mySQL board

[naganu]

Hey, John, where is the free tryout vB?
Today is June 12th, 2000...

[Craig Antill]

I hope that John is putting his existing customers who have trouble before with their setups ahead of this freebie which isn't directly going to earn him any money. Some of us seem to have some real problems, and no fix in sight :( Reading these forums at least 2 or 3 times a day, it occurs to me that support is not what it should be at present, and I feel it important that as much energy as possible is directed to this area of concern.

[Freddie Bingham]

Yes it appears having one person (John) running support is not working out to well and it is going to turn off many customers if it is not resolved rather quickly.

[John]

The freebie is on hold while I continue trying to sort out issues with 1.1.2. I will let you know when it is ready.

Craig - I'm trying to figure out what is happening at the moment.

John

[ilya]

Well, i'm pretty sure it's possible to put expiration check on vB...

[Chris Schreiber]

I'd love to be able to try out the demo version on my laptop, hope one is available soon... or could I test out the beta (I know that's normally just for customers.. but I thought I would ask). I agree with Ilya's suggestion about a timeout full-featured demo, since I am currently using UBB but would like to do a side-by-side comparison of speed and features before I decide to jump to using different fourm software.

Thanks,
-Chris

[wandrer]

UBB but would like to do a side-by-side comparison of speed and features before I decide to jump to using different fourm software.

http://www.glcomputers.com/Wandrer/forums/

[Chris Schreiber]

Thanks Wandrer... both for posting the link and compiling those performance stats. I wasn't too surprised by vBulletin out performing UBB, but some of those numbers were very interesting to look at.

-Chris

[AaronB]

The above link of the Board comparisons is no longer working. I am interested in seeing the numbers. Does the list exist in another location or anyone have something similar??

[ilya]

I would like to see the comparison too.

[ilya]

Uh, i'm going to make my own right now :):
Installation
vB: 10
UBB: 8
vB has a very nice installation script and is easier to install. UBB can take anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes, depending on how good you're with that kind of stuff :)
Customization
vB: 10
UBB: 10
Even though UBB doesn't use templates like vB, there are so many hacks out there for it, that you can make you UBB looks great!
Administration
vB: 9
UBB: 10
I think it's a little harder to use vB's admin area. But maybe it's because i'm a vB newbie...
User interface and features
vB: 10
UBB: 10
Both scritps have excellent features for users to play with :)
Bugs-free
vB: 8
UBB: 9
vB is a brand new products and still has quite afew bugs to fix. UBB developers fixed a lot of its bugs already and if new are discovered there are usualy hacks that fix them :)
Webhosting specifications
vB: 8
UBB: 10
It's much easier to fidn a host for UBB since its uses perl and flat files - even most free hosts now have perl. vB requires php and mySQL which is harder to find.
Security
vB: 10
UBB: 9
Well, so far i didn't see anyone discover any security holes for vB. UBB had a really big one in its previous versions and still has some..
Speed
vB: 10
UBB: 8
Using php and mySQL, vB is much faster than UBB, that uses flat files.
Support from the developers
vB: 9
UBB: 10
Developers of both scripts provide excellent support for their products and are always there to help you. vB, however, has only one support guy - John and he doesn't always have time to answer all the questions.
Support from users
vB: 10
UBB: 10
Users of both products are always glad to help you out
Overall
vB: 9.4
UBB: 9.4

So you can see that both productts are about the same in quality. It depends on what you're looking for and what kind of host you have and stuff like that :)

[Edited by ilya on 06-13-2000 at 07:40 PM]

[JimF]

ilya, I think some of your scores are off base. If you look at it from a first time user's perspective, many of your scores are innacurate. For example:

Installation:
vB - You upload, and you run a script. That's it.
UBB - You upload, you CHMOD, you set up links in the control panel, etc.
Overall, vB does rank a ten, but UBB is around a 5 or 6 for a first time user.

Customization:
vB - All you need is a basic working knowledge of HTML in order to add a customization.
UBB - you need to know Perl in and out to change anything.
Overall, what is considered a "hack" in UBB terms, is considered "adding something" in vB terms. In that regard, vB is a ten, and UBB again ranks around 5 or a 6.

Administration:
vB - Not very "pretty", but it gives you tons of power
UBB - very nice looking and easy to use, but limited in terms of the things that are controlled from it.
Overall, vB gets a 8 for it's somewhat confusing CP, and UBB ranks around the same because of it's lack of power.

The rest I think you are right on target. Hopefully, as this product starts developing itself, there will be more support for it.

[Chris Schreiber]

Originally posted by ilya
I would like to see the comparison too.

What amazed me most about it were two things that stood out:

Upon completion, it was noticed that their were only 5,916 combined posts over the nine forums. 46,644 posts were not processed correctly. I assume that since only a little over 10% of the posts were processed correctly, that same percentage of the Viewing/Searching was also processed correctly. That means that only ~26K of the ~260K requests were processed correctly.
And, under heavy load, vB stayed under 2 second response times for the test. UBB started out around the same (well a bit above), then got to a point where it spiked 10-20 second responses and then dies.

[Chris Schreiber]

Ilya, thanks for the point by point, it's nice to have someone that knows both products compare and contrast them.

Installation
This was the most surprising point. I would have thought that needing PHP working and installing/creating a MySQL database and connecting the two would be difficult. Then again, the first perl scripts I ever installed were a hassle and now it's no big deal, I do it all the time.

Customization
This is the one place UBB has a big lead over vB and one of my biggest draw backs to switching... just about anything I've ever wanted to add to UBB, there has been someone else willing to write and document a hack for it. But it's true that 75% (or around there) of my UBB hacks are standard vB features. Plus the template idea is wonderful.

Administration
Even though there's alot more available in vB's admin area, it wasn't nearly as easy to follow as UBB. But I guess the more important thing is having more admin features, not how it looks.

User interface and features
I think both are very similar in this area, in fact I almost thought this was a hacked UBB board when I first saw the UI.

Bugs-free
This is difficult for me to tell, but I am a bit concerned since vB is a newer product (ie maybe more bugs right now?) and not as many people to support the product.

Webhosting specifications
This is a biggie (for me) since I would have to move web hosts for PHP and MySQL.

Security
Yes that security hole that was in UBB puts it behind vB, I think.

Speed
This is of course the biggest advantage of vB, speed and scalability. No contest here.

Support from the developers
I am waiting to see vbhackers.com! I see that there is an active hacking fourm here, but UBB has several and many more developers working with the code. I hope the vB developer community grows as well to add more and more to the product.

[Mike Sullivan]

I am waiting to see vbhackers.com!
Chris - As you know, I'm on the staff over there (err.. at ubbhackers.com). Thought you'd be interested to know that I talked to Charles (Capps) about this a couple days back and we're planning on expanding to more than just UBB - vB and OT specifically. We're waiting for (perhaps) a couple months before opening a vbhackers.com (or some such), in order for it to get more support.

...And there was much rejoicing! yay! :D

[wandrer]

The above link of the Board comparisons is no longer working. I am interested in seeing the numbers. Does the list exist in another location or anyone have something similar??


Network Solutions is having a field day with the domain. It was 'dropped' or something like that. Give it a day to get back into the DNS and all should be fine...

Until then, you can use http://209.203.229.195/Wandrer/forums/







[Edited by wandrer on 06-13-2000 at 08:56 PM]

[ilya]

Jim:
I agree with you on the instllation, i guess. It was hard for me to judge, since i'm new to vB and a pro in ubb :)
about customization: you don't need nay perl knowledge to install the hacks. ALl you need to know is how to use notepad or some other editor :)

[JimF]

I understand where you're coming from, ilya. The hacks are easy to install, once somebody has made the hack. With VB, anything that I have wanted to do I have been able to implement myself. It is tough with vB, because pretty much every hack is already installed. I'm sure if you were to put up a hack request that was the least bit possible, somebody would develop it.

And granted, I am able whip out a UBB installation in no time...now. When I first started with the UBB I had no idea what I was doing, and it was a little tough.

I suppose all the ratings would be different based on the type of user that is installing and/or using it. In order to be totally fair, we'd have to come up with a rating system that took user skill levels and needs in to account.

:)

[werehere]

[quote]Customization
This is the one place UBB has a big lead over vB and one of my biggest draw backs to switching... just about anything I've ever wanted to add to UBB, there has been someone else willing to write and document a hack for it. But it's true that 75% (or around there) of my UBB hacks are standard vB features. Plus the template idea is wonderful. [quote]

UBB has no lead whatsoever over VB, in fact that is totally opposite.

Also, many people in this world that run forums have no idea, or would ever even attempt to customise their UBB because perl (even editing with notpad) is totally foreign to them. It may be different for you, or people you deal with, but most (more than not) will not customise UBB at all for that reason.

VB is also very easy to add customization through templates that would take hours of hard coding html into perl scripts for a nice look. How many *normal* forum owners actually want to go through such poorly coded perl scripts such as the UBB with little tidbits to change in pieces of every script? I know I never actually *wanted* to, and in the end it took many many hours (actually many many days) to get a nicely customised look to the UBB, and my VB forums have that look now after a couple of hours, with no hacking at all, just a little HTML.

Now that is the truth. I have ran VB for a while now, and ran the UBB for quite a while and have found the UBB to be completely lacking in almost all aspects.

[Chris Schreiber]

Originally posted by Ed Sullivan
Thought you'd be interested to know that I talked to Charles (Capps) about this a couple days back and we're planning on expanding to more than just UBB - vB and OT specifically.

Thanks for the great news Ed... I know that no matter which fourm software you use, it's great to have a strong user community behind it to help with bugs and adding enhancements. I can't wait for the grand opening!

[Chris Schreiber]

Originally posted by werehere
Also, many people in this world that run forums have no idea, or would ever even attempt to customise their UBB because perl (even editing with notpad) is totally foreign to them.
I agree with this 100%... in fact for the longest time I wouldn't do any UBB changes because I didn't know perl and didn't want upgrade hassles. I would guess less then 1-2% of all UBB owners actually change any perl code

VB is also very easy to add customization through templates that would take hours of hard coding html into perl scripts for a nice look.

From a look and feel standpoint, vB is far superior and simplier because of the templates. I've made very few major layout changes because of the problem of bits and pieces of the embedded HTML code in the UBB scripts.

The thing I was more concern about was being able to actually add in new features and functionality. For example, I run a development related board where posting source code is an important feature, not available in either UBB or vB... but there have been a few people that have written add-ons for UBB to handle this that have shared the code. I would hope that the same type of developer-type people are sharing new features for vB as there are now for UBB.

Sorry for taking this thread off-topic, I just like what I see about vB so far, and am just curious to learn more about and get some feedback.

Thanks,
-Chris

[werehere]

For example, I run a development related board where posting source code is an important feature, not available in either UBB or vB...

Talk to John about this because he runs VB-World, and has it so source code posted (VB Script) is all color coded and all. Pretty neat.:)

[Edited by werehere on 06-14-2000 at 12:00 AM]

[Chris Schreiber]

Originally posted by werehere
Talk to John about this because he runs VB-World, and has it so source code posted (VB Script) is all color coded and all. Pretty neat.:)

Wow, that is really very neat.... I know my users would absolutely love something like this!

[werehere]

Well it appears that it is not enabled for some reason on his forum anymore. I do know that it seemed to work fine for quite a while however, and yes it was neat. Maybe he will jump in here and shed some light on how server intensive it is, etc, etc.. :)

[Me2Be]

Wow, so many familiar faces here! Hi guys!

Thanks to Mr Ed Sullivan, I now my interest peaked, when can we download the program to test it out?




[Edited by Me2Be on 10-13-2000 at 07:55 PM]

[Chris Schreiber]

Originally posted by Me2Be
Wow, so many familiar faces here!

Thanks to Mr Ed Sullivan, I now my interest peaked, when can we download the program to test it out?

Hi Me2Be! I just stopped over here a few days ago and was surprised to see many familiar faces over here :)

Yes I'm eager to take a look at the demo version too... I have even installed PHP and MySQL and got them up and running on my laptop so I'm ready to take a look... so far it's been interesting.

-Chris

[Me2Be]

Originally posted by Chris Schreiber
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Me2Be
Yes I'm eager to take a look at the demo version too... I have even installed PHP and MySQL and got them up and running on my laptop so I'm ready to take a look... so far it's been interesting.

My host's tech person is waiting to install it for me. She's quite interested in seeing how this product performs because she knows our UBB is such a CPU hog.

John, When is the download going to be available? :D

[Menno]

uhm, from what *I* know, he's either still bashing away at some details for 1.1.2
if he's not, then he's working on the free version :)

BTW, nice to see yet another familiar face around ;)

[wandrer]

This message is basically a last call for any problems with 1.1.2

Downloaded 1.1.2 yesterday and the only problem I encountered was with the update user 'lastpost' problem:


Database error in vBulletin Control Panel: Invalid SQL: SELECT dateline FROM post WHERE userid=1 ORDER BY lastpost DESC LIMIT 1
mysql error: Unknown column 'lastpost' in 'order clause'
mysql error number: 1054
Date: Thursday 15th of June 2000 09:44:03 AM
Script: /forum/admin/misc.php?action=updateuser&startat=1&perpage=1
Referer:



As seen at: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=1018



[Edited by wandrer on 06-15-2000 at 11:06 AM]

[Freddie Bingham]

There are other issues that I have posted and received no response about.

[list=1]
If I click "list users" on any of the user groups in the "Modify User Groups" I get a list of all the forum users.

If I uncomment the aim/icq/yahoo code in $memberlist & $memberlistbits the aim/icq/yahoo columns remain empty in the member list (I know it works somehow as I see craig has it going on his board)

The signature line remains in posts if you remove your signature from your profile.

When I click on "Email Users" in the control panel I get this using latest 1.1.2:

Warning: Unexpected character in input: '\' (ASCII=92) state=1 in /usr/local/zeus/web_roots/main/www.hedgehogwheels.com/forums/admin/email.php on line 135

Warning: Unexpected character in input: '\' (ASCII=92) state=1 in /usr/local/zeus/web_roots/main/www.hedgehogwheels.com/forums/admin/email.php on line 135

Warning: Unexpected character in input: '\' (ASCII=92) state=1 in /usr/local/zeus/web_roots/main/www.hedgehogwheels.com/forums/admin/email.php on line 135

Parse error: parse error in /usr/local/zeus/web_roots/main/www.hedgehogwheels.com/forums/admin/email.php on line 135
[/list=1]

[Edited by rangersfan on 06-15-2000 at 11:31 AM]

[UserName]

I get the same error (in the latest version of 1.1.2) when I try to email users. It displays the form to email users, then shows the error (listed above) at the bottom, below the submit button.

[John]

All four of those problems are now fixed.

John

[JimF]

So, is 1.1.2 considered stable yet?

[John]

No - but watch this space!

John

[bira]

John, I'm curious about something: we are experiencing a blissful time with the bulletin board and none of the bugs others suffer from seem to surface in our board. For that reason, I was reluctant (and still am) to upgrade or change any of the php files. So in short, what I am really asking is, would it be possible to get a list of major changes from you so I can decide whether to upgrade or not, and also I could simply perhaps implement them myself in the current files?

[JimF]

Originally posted by bira
John, I'm curious about something: we are experiencing a blissful time with the bulletin board and none of the bugs others suffer from seem to surface in our board. For that reason, I was reluctant (and still am) to upgrade or change any of the php files.

That is my exact situation. I am afraid to upgrade because I don't want things to start going wrong. Like, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. However, I want some of the new features, such as online guests, etc.

I've been wanting to upgrade, but I wanted to make sure everything was 100% stable and bug free first.

[bira]

well the other thing is that we did make some changes - like the PM hack - to the scripts. So if there aren't any new features, I would rather not upgrade :)

[Freddie Bingham]

I see we are on version 1.1.3 beta 1 - can you allow us to download the experimental versions?