More than one site on a vBulletin license

[Flare945]

I have my license for the one copy of vBulletin that I am running, but I am strongly considering starting a second site.

I really do not want to have to purchase another license... because it is hard on me financially. *I am only 15*

I understand that you guys at JelSoft need to make your money, but I got a question about the only one site per license rule:

Is it to prevent piracy (1 person buying it and like reselling it to people for like $2, and then having those peeps claim theyre on his license) or is it to make money for you guys?

If it is the 2nd reason, then I really think that as long as the same person is using it, they should be able to have vBulletins on as many sites (THAT THEY OWN) as they want....

anyways, thats just my 2 cents.

John

[Shoe]

You can turn 1 into 2. No longer have the main forum page. Get rid of the jump at the bottom of each forum. Provide just a link to a category.


Every category could be a different board with a different style!

Yes, there are many other things you have to do. For subcategories within each of your new boards (categories) you will need to change the navigation likns top of each table, etc.

Create one style to get it all working. Then use that style as a basis for your other boards.

Hey--post this style, others would love you for it!

[Shoe]

Then again--how about for nonprofits a chance to use the board twice?

[Flare945]

yeah - that would fit me too, cuz i run a nonprofit site myself

[leadZERO]

If you yourself are running it with version 2 you could easily turn one site into two. Useing cobranding you can even have two style sets that look completely different. Then one each site you can link to the individual sections. People from each site probably wouldn't even know the difference. Then using usergroups you might even be able to limit access if need be.

[Flare945]

ehh

all this "turn one board into 2" stuff seems pretty pointless. if you can just do this, why not let people have 2? its so much easier.

if i have to do it that way, I would rather pay for another license... its just too much work, and wouldnt look the way I would want it too.

[leadZERO]

Originally posted by Flare945
its so much easier.



Thats a good reason.

[pestilence]

Good thought but this is how the guys make a living

[Shoe]

How about a discount for a second board? Hmmmmm?

BTW can we refer ourselves for a discount?

[maztec]

Discount sounds like a good idea to me. Like you could buy "group licensing" if you are the only one using all of them. You could get the 2nd board at half price, and on up to the 4th at half price, then it's quarter price till the tenth. Or you just have prices at intervals with whatever formula. Say 8% off of the last boards price for every additional board. Until it's down to like 20$, and at that point you just leave it at 20$.

Especially for nonprofit sites or sites that aren't making money. Perhaps charge extra if they're making money, heh.

[leadZERO]

*shrug* from what I have seen of vB and the team, you are getting a discount everytime you buy it, one license or two or however many. This is a superb product that can be touched by nothing within a couple hundred dollar price range.

What other product gives you the same quality you get with vB and allows you, if not encourages you, to modify it and hack it to suit your needs?

[Wayne Luke]

If you purchase three or more licenses for vBulletin you get a discount as shown on the Purchase Page. The discount ranges from a few dollars to $36.00 per copy depending on how many you buy.

[JamesUS]

But it would be good to have a discount later, eg I already have one license and am also considering purchasing a second. But in the current situation it would be impossible to get a discount unless you are purchasing a lot at once.

[maztec]

Hmm, more logically perhaps. How about a "not quite as expensive" way to renew your license (from my understanding it costs the same as buying the ownership again .. and for me at least ownership is cheaper than temporary lease -- or is that how the lease works? You can lease new versions after purchasing. . oh bother nevermind).. Anyway you can "purchase a second copy" at a "cut-price" like you do with "bulk purchases" if you do it within the first 6 months of your license or renewal of license.

Just a thought..

Maz

[pestilence]

when you purchase it its yours for life and access to the members area is only $30 a year i think you might be getting confused with a leased license

[maztec]

Oh, Hmm, I am, nevermind, I blanked.

Thanks.

Maz/

[Shoe]

There is an affliate program. I don't see why you can't sell the board to yourself and get the afflicate kickback. Anyway, selling these boards is not going to be hard.

This is a great product and at a very great price!

[xshredx]

typical that there is no official replay on this...
the guy is 100% right... 15 years, and needing to pay all that hard-earned money for a second license... it stinks...
a hard distinction between commercial and non-profit is what's needed here...
and not the vbulletin people making big money on the back of 15 year old kids...
just my 2 cents... nothing to worry about... go further ripping non-profit 15 year olds...

[PeF]

a hard distinction between commercial and non-profit is what's needed here...


Agreed.


go further ripping non-profit 15 year olds...


Did you ever get a discount or a product for free in a shop just because you're 15? I don't think so.
Making differences in an age is pointless. I don't wanna be dog-eat-dog but that's how're things going.
How would you feel if you make a product which is doubtless one of the best on the market, spent tons of hours above the code and your customers are not satisfied with the price which is reasonable (if you don't think so, look at InfoPop).
You made a good job? You should be paid.

Maybe in future will JelSoft make some *basic* version.
Maybe won't.
Maybe they will lower the prices.
Maybe won't.
It's their decision and yours is if you stay with vBulletin or not. It's the market, it's the bussiness. Just my two cents.

[maztec]

It's as simple as: "Do you have your 501c3 Tax ID Number? Or Not?" You don't, tough ****. You do, great, you earned a discount. And that number can be validated either relatively cheaply with the IRS or for free -- dependent upon your state/country.

Maz

[Wayne Luke]

There has been an official reply. You can find it on the order form.

Three months ago you couldn't get a discount for multiple licenses.

Then everyone complained. And Jelsoft started giving deductions.

There is a hard-line between commercial and non-profit at least in the United States. If you apply for Non-Profit Status and the IRS grants it then you are a non-Profit. Of course to get this you need to face increased scrutiny and account for every cent spent in your budget. Being a non-profit does not mean you get things for free. School are non-profit organizations yet they still must pay for teachers, books, desks, buildings, computers and yes even software. Yes there are companies that donate their products to non-profit organizations but not all do. In fact the majority don't. Those that do only due so because they benefit in Taxes at the end of the year when they can write off all the donations they gave. They don't do so out of the goodness of their heart they do so because it makes the shareholders happy and helps the bottom line.

Being a 15 year old kid or running a site that doesn't make money does not make you a Non-Profit and/or Tax Exempt Organization. It makes you a hobbyist and for most hobbies you need to pay for what you want to use.

For more information on becoming a Non-Profit Organization visit www.irs.gov or call your Tax Attorney.

[maztec]

wluke,

I am on the Board of Directors for 4 organizations, 3 of which are non-profit. Most of what you said is true. Organizations do mostly give their products, if they do that at all, to a non-profit at a cut-rate for the sole purpose of a tax write-off. But this only works when the non-profit writes them a receipt, which isn't always required and which isn't always done. There are people out there that do things out of the goodness of their heart. But they're far and few between in a capitalist regime. At least, that's what we assume.

I agree, a hobby'st should pay for what they use, unless they make it themselves. And you can make something yourself relatively easy. Just not as good (at first. . can be better/more suited for what you do in the long run) and not as fast. I don't know the story of jelsoft, but I wouldn't put it past that vBulletin was probably made as a product for someone in the organization before it was thought of as a public venture.

The classical: "Hey wouldn't it be cool if . . . "
Which turns into: "Hey we did this cool thing . . wait . . People LIKE IT!"
Which turns into: "Hey wouldn't it be cool if . . . we could sell this?"
Which turns into: "Wait! We can .. Hell, lets make money on something we enjoy doing!"

And Walla! You start to make a product that possibly turns ap rofit.

I don't know how many licenses/etc that Jelsoft has out there for vBulletin. Nor do I know how many people are on the team. I'm new to this program, I use it because it's easier for me to have "someone else do it, than me do it myself." Although I'm fully able to do it myself. I don't have the time to play those games. That and I hate programming, I get lazy, I ask others how to do it (as you can tell by some of my posts here -- mostly due to I haven't messed with vB enough to figure out how to change what yet .. Hey, it's been 3 weeks, gimme a break :)"

Of course, that same could mean I don't have a write to talk on prices/etc. Especially since i didn't know that just 3 months ago the cost went "down" for multiple licenses. That's great! That shows that you respond to customer demands/etc. Cool. But I still have an opinion :).

So back to wher eI was ... Oh yes, the don't knows. Lets say, 5 programmers, working at least 3 hours a day, relatively good programmers with PHP at that -- hell, that's at least 30$/hour and up to 80$/hour in most areas -- and 120 to 250$/hour in some .. and if specialized work? Try 2000$/hour. I know, I've earned it before.

I'm not arguing this because I'm hurting for cash. I'm arguing this because the non-profit who I was cheap and set it up for that i'm on the board for -- for the board of directors to discuss things -- well, they have no cash. They just got their Tax ID which cost the organization all the cash it had. Oops.

Oh yes, back to where I was.

So lets say the 5 programmers at 30$/hour, who knows how many of you are 15 year old kids also -- aren't those kids supposed to be smart when it comes to stuff like this? :) -- Lets say they all have their part and work 2 hours/day on vB. That's 5*2 (= 10 for those that failed math) * 30 = 300$/day. That takes at least 2 new ownership licenses per day. That's almost 700 licenses per year. OUCH!

What can I say? That's a lot. OF course youf igure in holiday's/other projects/etc.. Oh well. And lets say these people are making a living off of this, so they each get 60$/day, or 30*60 = 1800$/month. Then you take out taxes, 1400$/month. I doubt you're tax exempt.

Ok, that's enough of that blabbering.

As for tax-exempt -- there's no such thing, unless you're a government institution or a church. As a non-profit you still pay taxes, they're just decreased marginally.

What can I say?

Maz/ -- sorry for the length.

[Wayne Luke]

I never meant to imply that Jelsoft was a tax-exempt or non-profit.

[adrianchew]

I'm confused with the $30 for member access after the 1st year for Owned Licenses. Is this $30 per Owned License or $30/year, after your 1 year of Owned License access runs out?

Also what happens to that 1 year period if you buy multiple licenses? I'm guessing the Download link on some licenses will disappear first before others.

Another note - the problem with bulk pricing is that the people who need the price cuts most aren't likely to be the ones buying tons of licenses, they might need 2-3 at most.

I can see how 2.0 does allow multiple sites, but as far as beta 2 goes, it doesn't really allow enough granularity on the admin/control panels yet... allowing for a super-admin (controls all categories/sub-sites) and sub-site admins (full control panel access only for a sub-site custom settings).

[Flare945]

All this non-profit stuff and junk is confusing me, although i think this is a very good debate.

But the main point is, I think that if you buy one license, and you are not a profit company, then you should be able to use that license to have more than one board.

To pay for my board I had to shovel snow (quite difficult, it was very heavy... strained my back), hoard lunch money, do a little computer work, and some other stuff. Now, I am not saying that people should not have to work for their money, because that is definately not true. All I am saying is that I feel like I paid my money, and I wouldnt like to have to do those hours and hours of work again just to get another copy of vBulletin (I didnt even get the life one... was too expensive, just the lease is what I got).

I realize in full that JelSoft needs to make their money, but I think considerations should be made. The non-profit thing is something I agree fully with. For a company, a board is like dropping a penny on the ground... they dont even need to pick it up because it is such little money to them. For a organization (or webpage) that has 0 income, and is funded out of an individuals pocket (especially for minors) the money is much harder to come by.

I would like to see some offical response to this in this thread, since no staff of JelSoft have replied as of yet... I dont think.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally posted by Flare945
All this non-profit stuff and junk is confusing me, although i think this is a very good debate.

But the main point is, I think that if you buy one license, and you are not a profit company, then you should be able to use that license to have more than one board.

To pay for my board I had to shovel snow (quite difficult, it was very heavy... strained my back), hoard lunch money, do a little computer work, and some other stuff. Now, I am not saying that people should not have to work for their money, because that is definately not true. All I am saying is that I feel like I paid my money, and I wouldnt like to have to do those hours and hours of work again just to get another copy of vBulletin (I didnt even get the life one... was too expensive, just the lease is what I got).

I realize in full that JelSoft needs to make their money, but I think considerations should be made. The non-profit thing is something I agree fully with. For a company, a board is like dropping a penny on the ground... they dont even need to pick it up because it is such little money to them. For a organization (or webpage) that has 0 income, and is funded out of an individuals pocket (especially for minors) the money is much harder to come by.

I would like to see some offical response to this in this thread, since no staff of JelSoft have replied as of yet... I dont think.

Welcome to the real world... I work 60-90 hours a week to pay the bills, buy groceries, clothe my children and purchase the things I like. When I go to the Video Store, do you think they'll let me rent two videos just because I worked hard for my money. Sorry but I really have no sympathy. Maybe you should ask your parents for a loan.

[Shoe]

I'm selling pop bottles to get me a new board! He he!

[DVD Plaza]

Jesus give the guy a break, he's 15 years old.

Congratulations - you work all those hours to earn money for you and your family, just like every other person on this planet. This 15 year old worked his butt off for something he provides for OTHERS in return for nothing.

If you're such a saint, what is it you did at 15 years old that makes you so much better?

[fastforward]

Originally posted by DVD Plaza
If you're such a saint, what is it you did at 15 years old that makes you so much better?
He probably paid his way instead of asking for handouts. :D

The truth is vB is already sold at a reasonable enough price to allow everybody that really wants it to easily afford it. If they chopped the price by 50% there'd still be people whining and asking for freebies.

If it costs too much for your budget, go get a cheaper one. That's why we don't all drive Ferarris... ****, I can't even SPELL Ferrari. :confused:

[Wayne Luke]

I never said I was a saint but since you asked.


I got my first job working at a Donut house when I was 15 and a half. I worked 24 hours a week. Since that time I have had to pay for everything I wanted except my room and board was only $25.00 a week then. This included clothes, school supplies, and other teenage necessities.

When I was 16, I got a fulltime job working at a Pizza Parlor washing dishes. Since I was now full-time my parents increased my rent to $50.00 a week.

When I was 17, I was working at a movie theater. At this same time my father lost his job and we lost our house. For 3 months I worked 60 hours plus at the movie theater so my parents could pay the rent, buy food and keep the lights on. This is at a time when most people are out partying and dating.

Age 18, I was still working at the movie theater but living on my own now with 3 roommates so we would afford the apartment.

Except for a few months last year when it couldn't be helped I have been working for everything I have now and have had in the past since I was 15 and 1/2.

Now I put in 18 hour days on average to acheive my goal of semi-retiring by the age of 45 (I am 30 now) so that I can enjoy my life before old-age sets in. Yes I know my parents drove me and my brothers hard. Yes when I was a kid, I resented them for it. But now that I am older I understand why. They don't want us to end up like them with out financially secure futures.

Maybe I was a little hard on the kid but it comes from background. Even now my 9 year old son has to earn money for the video games he wants. Simple things really. I pay him for helping around the house. If he wanted to setup a vBulletin system tomorrow he has the money saved up right now to do so. If he wanted to setup a second one he would have to earn the money again before I let him do so.

If a 9 year old boy can earn enough money to spend $120 dollars on Christmas and still have $85 dollars in the bank then so can a 15 year old.

[DVD Plaza]

It's good to hear of people working hard for what they want, I've likewise had to work for EVERYTHING I've wanted in life. It frustrates me so much seeing people getting things easy.

[Joshs]

I am almost 15 and I am trying to get vBulletin, I just love their software. One thing that I think some people dont understand is that it is hard to give vBulletin free, or discounted for non-profit organizations because the developers put their work into it and should get what they deserve. After all this is probably part of there living! I had inquired and I am still waiting for a response on getting vBulletin discounted or free if I will write a excellent review on the product and advertise them on my site so more people will find out about it. I started my own company back in august with one of my friends and it has been a sucess. We just dont have the money for purchasing vBulletin at the moment because we just got a brand new dell poweredge server and blew every penny we had. We ended up getting Dell to get us $400 off the server plus free shipping. One of the main reasons of us getting this server was to host vBulletin which we cant even afford at the moment! We are planning to use the forums for our tech site (HyTECH).

-Josh Stein
HyTek Computer
www.hytekcomputer.com
josh@hytekcomputer.com

[Flare945]

Ok - this thread has quickly changed into a fight about wether people should work for their stuff or not. This is changing the topic.

All I am saying is I HAVE paid for my license, but I dont think I should pay for a second. Its not like I got my first copy for free or anything, I DID pay for it, so the issue of being non-profit and not paying is not a issue. I just feel if you pay once, you have paid, and that should be it.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally posted by Flare945
Ok - this thread has quickly changed into a fight about wether people should work for their stuff or not. This is changing the topic.

All I am saying is I HAVE paid for my license, but I dont think I should pay for a second. Its not like I got my first copy for free or anything, I DID pay for it, so the issue of being non-profit and not paying is not a issue. I just feel if you pay once, you have paid, and that should be it.

In the license agreement it says that you can run this on one site. You can actually use a single license to run what appears to be multiple forums. If you want a second completely separate forum then it is not unfair to require a second license and associated fee.

[petesmc]

Ok,

This may be slightly off, but I highly disagree. It was in the lincensing agreement that you pay for one site.

This is definately the way it should be. Think about it.

Also, if youre young and need money then ask you're parents. My parents let me, I say, "I think it will help my website if I have a forum. Can you buy it."

They just ask me to pay some of it as they already pay my domain name/ my webhosting....

$160 isn't that much.....Its my 15 weeks pocket money, or 1/4 of my birthday money.

Peter

[Flare945]

1/4th of your birthday money? you get a lot of birthday money...

[Ville]

I think the current licensing policy is the way it should be. The only time licensing issues bother me is when I purchase a software and am limited to one installation even though I use only one computer (and thus one installation) at a time, say, laptop & the workstation. This, of course, doesn't apply to vBulletin because if you have two installations both of them are being used concurrently (users can be posting on both forums at the same time).

vBulletin is very reasonably priced when compared, for instance, to UBB whose price has recently gone up significantly. Furthermore, a Fortune 500 company will still pay the same fee for vBulletin as does an individual while UBB's pricing structure has changed to being staggered and progressive depending on how much money the client has (or is supposed to have). Finally, compare the annual "subscription" price to have access to the upgrades: vBulletin $30 vs. UBB $125.

While it's great that many relatively young users have set up vBulletin boards for various purposes, the pricing and licensing policy can't be based on how much allowance the young customers receive if the company wants to continue existing and providing a top-of-the-line product.

// Ville (who is not in any way associated with Jelsoft other than by being a satisfied customer)

[Joshs]

I am going to purchase vBulletin right now...

[Djnemesis]

just put a banner on your site and then write it off, saying it was an advertising expense for your business if you have one.

[Djnemesis]

all the youngsters on here pitchy a fit about the price. Well, oh well. I work for the largest computer company in the world, which will rename unnamed. I can you tell you one thing from experience. There is no way that vBulletin is going to discount their product based on age.

1. Who is to say that a parent who has a site isn't telling his son to buy it who is young so he can get a discount. That's one reason why they wouldn't do it. For people who give false information.

2. It's to much trouble to go through verifying all the information based on age and so forth and inturn costing the company more money and on top of that losing even more money because they are gonna give a youngster a discount.

3. They aren't stupid

4. Look at #3

Any product of this nature is going to have a nice price tag. If you don't like the price then go with an ezboard or something of that nature. There are many alternatives including phpBB which is totally free and you host it yourself. If you are young and want to do a site for hobby then grab yaself a nice click through banner ad company like www.cj.com . Make ya some money to pay for the services on the site. Not to have a personal money gain, but to pour the money you make from that to put back into your site.

Do you think if you are going to buy a house from a realtor they are going to give you a discount because you are a certain age, yeh right.. wake up. This is America, anything that is worth selling.. is gonna have a price tag on it that would allow the creators of the product to flourish from their accomplishments.

[Joshs]

Welp, I just shoveled out $160 for it a few minutes ago and I am almost 15, I am not complaing, it is great software!

[pestilence]

I agree.



can one of the mods/admins close this thread please its going nowhere and its getting boring and repetitive.
Its like the proverbial thorn in the side

[X-PhoeniX]

Well, why not just give the whole product for free eh? :D:D:D

[Flare945]

i agree


this thread has gotten off topic, and changed to just fighting. would a mod plz close it.

[Shoe]

Originally posted by Flare945
1/4th of your birthday money? you get a lot of birthday money...

That's a lot of birthday money! It only got 20 bucks (still do)! I would have taken me 8 years to buy a board!

[petesmc]

Whoah.....

thats along time..

I usually get quite a bit for b'days. I don't get presents. Jus money, to spend on presents.

Peter

[maztec]

The difference between the spoiled and the non-spoiled.

My cousins case in point: from age 0 to 16 have got over a 1000$ for every birthday and Christmas -- each from their parents.

I on theo ther hand have received no cash but a sum total of about 30$ in actual presents -- exept about 3 times when it summed up to a bit over 200$. But I was thankful and enjoy my presents/etcc and take them asgifts of love -- not as requirements and mandates of holiday and family.

Bah humbug,

Maz