Private Forum - Moderators can not see it?

[Still Waters]

I created a forum and set "Private Forum" to YES.
Here is the description for the "Private Forum" setting:
Invisible to all except moderators and admins; user access masks must be on!

However, only admins and super mods could see the forum. Regular mods could not. Is this intended behavior? Or is this a bug?

[Ryan Ashbrook]

Make sure your moderators are set to the Moderator group.

[Still Waters]

I double-checked. They are in the moderator usergroup.

[Steve Machol]

Then check the user access masks. If they have permission to see these forums and they are in the Mod user group, then this should work.

[Still Waters]

Please remind me... how do I check the user access masks? :o

[Steve Machol]

It's one of the options at the top of the screen when you pull up their profiles in the Admin CP.

[Still Waters]

Thanks, I found this option: Edit Forum Access for Username

Everything is set to DEFAULT.

[Steve Machol]

If they were not part of the Mod user group when the private forums were created then this could account for the problem. Simply set the user mask to 'Yes' and this should fix it.

[Still Waters]

If they were not part of the Mod user group when the private forums were created then this could account for the problem.
I just set up a new "Private Forum."
The pre-existing moderators can not see it.

[Steve Machol]

Hmmm...the only other thing I can think of is that you have installed some hacks that are affecting this. I cannot duplicate this problem on my unhacked test forum.

[Still Waters]

I have no hacks at all.

Here's an idea. I had accidentally deleted my moderators usergroup. So, I created a new usergroup and used phpmyadmin to change the usergroupid to 7.

Perhaps there is some additional change needed, in order for the moderator usergroup to function properly?

[Steve Machol]

I'm not aware of anything else you need to do but it does sound like deleting that user group messed this up.

[Still Waters]

Time for me to submit a support ticket?

[Steve Machol]

If you have not installed any hacks, fill out a support ticket at:

http://www.vbulletin.com/members/support_form.php

Be sure to include the login info to your Admin CP, phpMyAdmin and FTP. If you have installed hacks, then remove the hacks first then check and see if you still have this problem. If so, leave the default vB files in place and fill out the support request.

[squall14716]

Actually, I am pretty sure this may be a "bug" in vB. I know several times when I added a private forum, moderators didn't have access to it. I had to manually give the mod group access using "Forum Permissions" in the admincp.

[Steve Machol]

I doubt it's a bug. I cannot duplicate this on either my 2.30 or 2.3.2 forums.

[Still Waters]

I'm not aware of anything else you need to do but it does sound like deleting that user group messed this up.I have an idea. Let's test the theory that this problem is caused by deletion and recreation of the moderator usergroup.

Would you please delete your moderators usergroup.
Create a new usergroup.
Use myphpadmin to change the usergroupid to 7.
Move a user to this new usergroup.
Create a Private Forum, and see if that user can see it.

[Still Waters]

Bumping.

Steve, would you be game enough to try my idea on your test board?

It would mean deleting your moderator group. Create a new usergroup and change its usergroupid to 7. Move a test user to that group. Create a private forum. See if the test user can see the forum.

[Steve Machol]

Before doing this I noticed something strange. I created a private forum and although the Mod should have seen it (access mask was set to yes) he couldn't. I looked at the forum permissions for the newe private forum and they had been set to customer settings that disallowed the Mod group to view that forum.

I then created another private group with no parent and the same thing happened.

This was all on my unhacked vB 2.3.2 test forum. Something isn't right so I'm moving this to the Bugs forum for a Dev to look at.

At this point I recommend checking the forum permissions for the Mod group and setting them accordingly.

[Zachery]

Private forums were set to default, as SMOD / ADMIN only, thought out my whole expirence from vb2.2.6

if you need mods to see them edit the forum access masks

[Steve Machol]

Well if you're right then this is one change that slipped right past me.

[Zachery]

in all the time ive been doing this ive never seen private been treated otherwise

(goes to dbl check his arhcive )

as far as i know / remember, when setting forums to be private in 2.2.x it would set them for admin smod

its much ezier to just change the access masks rather than to set a forum to private

[Paul]

I have no hacks at all.

Here's an idea. I had accidentally deleted my moderators usergroup. So, I created a new usergroup and used phpmyadmin to change the usergroupid to 7.

Perhaps there is some additional change needed, in order for the moderator usergroup to function properly? In admin/forum.php, you'll find variations of the following bit of code:


if ($private==1) {
$groups=$DB_site->query("SELECT usergroupid FROM usergroup WHERE usergroupid<5 OR usergroupid>6");


It will then set anyone not in usergroup 5 or 6 to canview = 0 when you add/modify a forum and have Is private? turned on.

Usergroups are hardcoded all over vbulletin2, so I doubt this is something they'll bother fixing. It'll probably be labeled a "design issue." In the meantime, you could edit that and similar entries to reflect your new "moderator" usergroup, or manually move the moderator usergroup back to the original id. If you change the values in the database, the next time you alter the forum's properties your changes will be overwritten if you don't modify the code.

Good luck convincing them this is in fact a bug. You'll probably hear the above.

Paul

[Still Waters]

Good luck convincing them this is in fact a bug.
You'll probably hear the above.
Actually, it doesn't bother me whether or not this is labeled a "bug."
Ultimately, I'm interested in a solution that is easily understandable by
a relatively new vBulletin user, such as myself. Paul and others, above,
I appreciate your time to provide technical advice. Could you please
present your ideas on a more fundamental level?

[Zachery]

use ACCESS masks over making forums private :)

[Steve Machol]

Actually, it doesn't bother me whether or not this is labeled a "bug."
Ultimately, I'm interested in a solution that is easily understandable by
a relatively new vBulletin user, such as myself. I thought I already answered this:
At this point I recommend checking the forum permissions for the Mod group and setting them accordingly.

[Still Waters]

I thought I already answered thisYes, you did. Sorry that I missed it.
I was watching the forest and missed the tree. :o

[Paul]

Changing the group permissions won't matter. Any time you edit the forum itself, everything other than usergroups 5 and 6 will be locked out.

You'll have to change code or never edit the forum again. ;)

[Steve Machol]

Changing the group permissions won't matter. Any time you edit the forum itself, everything other than usergroups 5 and 6 will be locked out.What kind of change exactly? I couldn't duplicate this. I made a change to the privtae forum and it did not change the permissions I had set.

Besides, I rarely ever make changes to a forum. Once it's set up, it tends to stay that way.

[Paul]

What kind of change exactly? I couldn't duplicate this. I made a change to the privtae forum and it did not change the permissions I had set.

Besides, I rarely ever make changes to a forum. Once it's set up, it tends to stay that way. The usergroups permitted access to a "private forum" are hardcoded--5 and 6. He deleted and restored his moderator group, which would make it a number other than those two. The code will modify the access masks of users who aren't in 5 and 6 when a forum is marked private. Further review shows the following query:

SELECT DISTINCT moderator.userid
FROM moderator,user
WHERE moderator.userid=user.userid
AND user.usergroupid<>6
AND user.usergroupid<>5

Which should also grab any moderators explicitly defined as moderators to a forum (not "supermoderators"). I didn't see that bit of code the first time I looked at it.

You'll note that there is no "Can view private forums" setting in the usergroup manager.

Therefore, the only users that will have access to private forums are those that:


are in usergroup 5 (moderator) are in usergroup 6 (admin) are set explicitedly as a moderator in any forum (and therefore appear in the moderator table)I haven't tested this myself, but that appears to be the intention of whoever wrote it. The problem in this particular case is that the usergroup was deleted. Seems to me rather silly that a usergroup hardcoded into the forum could be so easily deleted. Perhaps some sanity checking is in order?

It would probably be nicer to allow you to define what usergroups are permitted access to these areas (I think vB3 makes this easier). In the meantime, the solution for this user would be to either edit the code itself and include all the usergroups he wants in there, modify the new usergroup he created for moderators to actually be usergroup 5 directly in the database (what I would probably do), or add his moderators explicitedly to a forum.

[Mike Sullivan]

The usergroups permitted access to a "private forum" are hardcoded--5 and 6. He deleted and restored his moderator group, which would make it a number other than those two. The "Moderators" group is always a number other than those two (it defaults to 7 on new installs). Those are the super mod and admin groups; neither of those can be deleted from the CP.

So deleting the mod group shouldn't matter (as a matter of fact, the mod group wasn't a "default" group for a long time). Unless we're actually talking about the super mod group here -- in which case that should be usergroupid 5 and would've had to have been deleted through phpMyAdmin or the like.

Additionally, editing the forum's information won't change the settings unless you change the value of the "is private forum" option.

Now, as for what happened to Steve, access masks were probably disabled. They "ship" disabled because they add a query (in vB2 at least). Access masks can be enabled in the CP options section. Aside from this, I don't see what would cause mods to not be able to access a private forum.

FYI, that option was removed in vB3 because of the issues/questions that it creates, such as this. Permissions should be managed directly via forum permissions (you can actually do that here without any problem).

[Paul]

So deleting the mod group shouldn't matter (as a matter of fact, the mod group wasn't a "default" group for a long time). Unless we're actually talking about the super mod group here -- in which case that should be usergroupid 5 and would've had to have been deleted through phpMyAdmin or the like.
Sorry, yes. I don't use the moderator user group at all and I've always considered 5 the group for moderators. Looking now in the Admin CP I see that I cannot delete that usergroup. I was under the impression that he removed it from the panel. Again, my mistake.

Additionally, editing the forum's information won't change the settings unless you change the value of the "is private forum" option.
You mean turn it off and back on?

[Mike Sullivan]

You mean turn it off and back on? Yeah, it detects a change in the setting. If there's no change, it leaves the permissions as is. If you change it, it'll do <whatever> to the permissions (remove them/add them, depending on what you do).