vBulletin term legality

[filburt1]

Is vBulletin a registered trademark ( (R) ) or just a regular trademark (tm)?

[Dimava]

whats the diffrence between the two trademarks?

[Steve Machol]

whats the diffrence between the two trademarks?
A few thousand dolloars in legal fees. ;)

[okrogius]

whats the diffrence between the two trademarks?
Registered trademark (r) means that your trademark is in fact registered (which does include the fees mentioned by Steve). Non-registered trademark (tm)means that it's not registered anywayere, but you actively use it to distinguish some of your products/services/etc.

The only significant differences are the legal fees (;)), and if a company is brought to court by another contesting it's trademark usage - will have an easier time if it's an R rather then a TM.

[filburt1]

So I assume vBulletin is a nonregistered trademark?

[Floris]

Sorry to go off topic,
but
why the interest ? :)

[filburt1]

In product names that I use, I want to give credit where appropriate.

[s.molinari]

A few thousand dolloars in legal fees. ;)

Hi Steve,

Actually, it only costs $335 to register a trademark in the USA and you can even register the trademark online. :)

@filiburt - vBulletin (tm) is not (yet) a registered trademark.

Scott

[Steve Machol]

Ther $335 is the regular fee to gain a trademark - not register it. I know because I am in the process of doing this now.

[tubedogg]

What, pray tell, is the difference between "gain"ing and "register"ing a trademark?!?

[fury]

... The only significant differences are the legal fees (), and if a company is brought to court by another contesting it's trademark usage - will have an easier time if it's an R rather then a TM.

[Steve Machol]

You have greater legal protection with a trademark that's registered:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/register.htm

[tubedogg]

I understand the difference between TM and ®. You stated there is a $335 fee to "gain" a trademark, and that this is somehow different from registering a trademark with the USPTO, when the fee is actually to "register" the trademark with the USPTO; in other words, your use of the word "gain" is synonomous with the USPTO's use of the word "register".

[Steve Machol]

Okay. Sorry my wording was not sufficiently clear. Yes, the two process and results are different. I have applied for a trademark on OptiBoard. The cost was $335. This allows me to use the TM but not ®.

If I want to register the trademark (®) then it is a separate process done after you receive the trademark. The registration process is more costly and extensive than the original trademark application. Here's more info:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmfaq.htm
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmfaq.htm#Application001

[s.molinari]

Hi Steve,

I don't want to say your wrong but I'd like to say what I think is right. The (TM) can be used for any product or name if the owner/user of that name thinks it's a trademark. Usually the rule is, if it is a product or name that has some sort of market/commercial presence then the TM can be added to the name. So, theoretically, John or James could put the TM behind the vBulletin brandname just as you could put TM behind OptiBoard, and that without paying a penny. You are basically saying, "This is my name/trademark and I came up with it." We (the USPTO) do not decide whether you have the right to use a mark (which differs from the right to register). Even without a registration, you may still use any mark adopted to identify the source of your goods and/or services. also about the (TM)Question:Are there federal regulations governing the use of the designations "TM" or "SM" with trademarks?
Answer: No.
However, if someone were to contest the name and say it belongs to them, you would have a hard time convincing a judge otherwise. That is where the registering of the trademark with the USPTO comes in. The initial registration costs $335 per class of product or service. After you send in the application, the USPTO reviews it and if there are no oppositions or possible name collisions then approx. 12 weeks later you get a NOTICE OF ALLOWANCE. Once you get that, you must register your INTENT OF USE. This is another $100 per class of product or service (which I failed to mention above). Once that is registered you can legally add the (R) to your trademark and that as long as you use the name.

Additionally, there is also an affidavit that you must periodically send in in order to keep the registration. This must be done every ten years and costs $100 for every product or service class that the trademark is registered for.

So, your right that it costs a bit more than $335. But, not much more.;) If you are registering the trademark through a lawyer then obviously it will cost quite a bit more. They must add their $200 an hour to fill out the forms....online. hehehe ;)

Scott

[Steve Machol]

Hi Steve,

I don't want to say your wrong but I'd like to say what I think is right. The (TM) can be used for any product or name if the owner/user of that name thinks it's a trademark. Usually the rule is, if it is a product or name that has some sort of market/commercial presence then the TM can be added to the name. So, theoretically, John or James could put the TM behind the vBulletin brandname just as you could put TM behind OptiBoard, and that without paying a penny. You are basically saying, "This is my name/trademark and I came up with it." also about the (TM)Nope, that's wrong. You may be thinking of copyrights which ARE automatic. Trademarks are not automatically conferred or inferred. Check the USPTO website for more info.

[s.molinari]

Nope, that's wrong. You may be thinking of copyrights which ARE automatic. Trademarks are not automatically conferred or inferred. Check the USPTO website for more info.

Nope, definitely not thinking about copyrights and everything I quoted is from the USPTO site, so I think I did do my reading. Maybe you should read it a bit more.

Again. You can add the (TM) to any name you want. There are no goverment regulations which say otherwise.

See this page: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/register.htm

When can I use the trademark symbols TM, SM and ®?

Any time you claim rights in a mark, you may use the "TM" (trademark) or "SM" (service mark) designation to alert the public to your claim, regardless of whether you have filed an application with the USPTO. However, you may use the federal registration symbol "®" only after the USPTO actually registers a mark, and not while an application is pending. Also, you may use the registration symbol with the mark only on or in connection with the goods and/or services listed in the federal trademark registration.

I knew I read this but I couldn't find it for my post above. Do you believe me now?

Scott

[tubedogg]

Scott is correct. There is absolutely no fee or regulations regarding TM, and while trademarks are not automatic, you do not have to register them to use them.

[Steve Machol]

I stand corrected. Thanks guys! :)

[Erwin]

Trademarks are protected under common law as well, so you do not need registration to have a trademark, as long as you can prove prior use and extensive recognition - however, registration will provide better recognition, like scott said.