vBulletin + lotsa stuff...the real deal on finding a host

[shawn gibson]

I've been told everything from twenty dollars a month to hundreds with 2 dedicated servers for the project at hand, which is going to be largely based on vBulletin, some chatting package, and my internal search engine. Could someone with some real experience here give me some potential hosting names to get me started, hopefully Canadian-based? Here is what I've been asking the hosting companies if they can provide for/allow:

1) user login that I am allowed to verify (they send me a verification code or something like that, and I give them access)
2) search engine that I update with people who have paid to be in the search engine (only community members allowed in there).
3) vBulletin (PHP, mySQL, and hopefully telnet--they DON'T require root access)
4) chatting capability (leased software I'll find somewhere) of some type that meshes well with the design of the site.
5) ability to update things like daily and weekly specials
6) the potential ability someday to have credit cards run through

I am sorry for being so specific, but I'm learning server-side information as I go here. If you have something else that I need, please let me know the specifics if possible.
The site I am building for a client is at

http://members.rogers.com/rchorney/search.html

Thanks for any help

Shawn:)

[SaintDog]

1). That could probably done with a PHP script, so I don't see why any host would not allow that.

2). Again, this too could be done with a PHP script so it should be allowed as well.

3). I don't know many hosts that don't allow vBulletin :) - but most will not give you telnet, they will allow you SSH (just as good, but it is secure, whereas Telnet is not).

4). Most hosts will not allow chat/IRC based programs unless you are on a dedicated server, you would need to ask around, so do, some don't.

5). Depending on what you are wanting to update and how you have things setup, this too could be done via a PHP script.

6). Merchant account :) (2Checkout.com, Authorize.net, HostCharge.com, just to name a few, very few).

If you plan on things being very large and are going to be running vBulletin + a Chat Script of some form, I would suggest a dedicated server as most host do not allow the vast majority of chat based scripts, although vBulletin and the rest will not be a problem.


Regards,

- SaintDog

[shawn gibson]

Thanks SaintDog. I now have another, less feasible option: the company I work for has just authorized a loan for me of $1250 Canadian to buy a server at home if I want it. I have Rogers Hi-Speed as an ISP (cable). Is this a better alternative? I have many friends in IT who could keep the shock of setting up initially minimal.

I'm going to check into the hosting companies you listed in the meantime.

Thanks very much,
Shawn

[SaintDog]

1). You don't need a $1k/month server to run what you have in mind, there is no need to spend money you could saver for further payments later on down the road :). There are plenty of great companies that can offer you low cost dedicated servers for a fraction of what you are going to be loaned.

2). The above listed companies are not hosting companies, they are Merchant account dealers which will allow you to accept credit cards (as you asked for).

If you are looking to get a dedicated server, I personally and highly reccomend going with Priority Colocation. My hosting company leases a few dedicated servers from them and they have been wonderful:

http://www.prioritycolocation.com - You are probably looking at $200-$250/month with them, it is worth every penny, I promise (else I would not be using them :)).

Let me know if you have any more questions, I am always happy to help out :).

- SaintDog

[adehost.com]

Originally posted by shawn gibson
I've been told everything from twenty dollars a month to hundreds with 2 dedicated servers for the project at hand, which is going to be largely based on vBulletin, some chatting package, and my internal search engine. Could someone with some real experience here give me some potential hosting names to get me started, hopefully Canadian-based? Here is what I've been asking the hosting companies if they can provide for/allow:

1) user login that I am allowed to verify (they send me a verification code or something like that, and I give them access)
2) search engine that I update with people who have paid to be in the search engine (only community members allowed in there).
3) vBulletin (PHP, mySQL, and hopefully telnet--they DON'T require root access)
4) chatting capability (leased software I'll find somewhere) of some type that meshes well with the design of the site.
5) ability to update things like daily and weekly specials
6) the potential ability someday to have credit cards run through

http://members.rogers.com/rchorney/search.html

Thanks for any help

Shawn:)

Hi Shawn, as a host I would have to advise you that your request is not that difficult to have.

I myself can not fill it out ( your request for telnet or SSH is not permitted on my servers )

as for chatting software, please be advised that most host dislike IRC unless they have the right types of firewalls. It's a legit fear becasue of the famous attacks that can happen.

as for the credit card option, your safest bet is 2checkout.com. the best fraud protection that I have encountered.

best of luck on your search.

Mike

[shawn gibson]

OK I've gona and purchased a server, P4 1.8A, 1 gig RAM 512 cache, 60meg, 7200 non-Scuzzy. I get it next Friday, after my company's cheque is printed.

Do I use Win 200 Server to run vBulletin and use Access databases as I've built and hope to get over to online for the search engine, directory, etc.?

Install Win 200 Server

And FrontPage + Server Extensions

Then I download Apache

Then I download mySQL and PHP4

Then I set that stuff up

Then I download vBulletin and set it up.

And get going on moving my Access stuff to online, hopefully for now with FrontPage

Is this correct?

Or at least not so far off base as to leave me throwing my nifty new server over the balcony? LOL

Shawn

[orca]

Well, you don't need Win2000 for vBulletin. It also works under Linux. On both systems you need PHP and mySQL. In my opinion, stay away from Windows servers to use for internet...just my opinion...
Take Linux, it's actually "free" or cheaper than Win2000. There are good distributions which let u easily setup a Linux box with everything included. Most commone ones are Suse or Redhat.

[shawn gibson]

Thanks Orca. Why is Win not good for the Internet? I'm worried about the learning curve as it is, so a brand new OS interface is something I'd rather avoid right now...

Shawn

[orca]

Well, security...Mostly, Win systems are affected if it comes to Worms, Viruses etc. So you'd always need to be very up2date.
Not that you shouldn't be concerned about security with Unix/Linux. But Win systems are more affected.

[SaintDog]

Linux is a lot less crash tolerant that Windows (i.e. more stable). Linux is also preferred if you are going to be running vBulletin, at least the last time I checked. Although it may be a new OS to you, it would be the better choice in the end if you are looking for a reliable and stable OS.

Windows is usually used for business use, whereas Linux is used for both and seems to be more trusted (it is also less expensive, compare the costs of a linux technician to that of a windows tech, as well as server rentals).

There are always people around to help if you choose to go with Linux, you just have to look in the right place. I would suggest going to WebHostingTalk.com and asking them what their preferences would be, 1,000's of hosts check the boards daily (some even live there ;)), you are sure to get a reponse.


- SaintDog

[shawn gibson]

Well between you two and our IT guy here, I'm convinced. He downloaded the newest Linux yesterday, and is bringing it for me tomorrow. Wish me luck LOL

Thanks very much for your help. As soon as my client gets back, and my server is sitting on my desk, I'll be on my way to forum glory with vB.

Off topic...but are there any good services like vBulletin in the chatting realm?

[SaintDog]

No problem, I am sure you will be very happy with the Linux setup, all of my servers use it and I could not be better off.

As for the chatting services, I am afraid I don't deal much with them, nor have I used many of them. If you are looking for a few, you could always look at www.hotscripts.com -> PHP -> Chat Scripts; HS has a load of scripts and I am sure you would be able to find something to play with there :).

Good Luck!

- SaintDog

[orca]

And once you're server is running, there are free tools (or also some commercial ones) which let you administer it web-based.

[shawn gibson]

Thanks SaintDog! I'll check that link out. Do you know of any beginner forums for server-side technology? I'm going to need a fair amount of help getting this off the ground.

Funny how someone asks you to design a site and suddenly you need a lot more than html/js and graphic experience. Funny how you also end up going out and getting a loan and plunking 2 grand down on a server to run in your livingroom LOL.

What an adventure!

Shawn

[shawn gibson]

Cool. Thanks Orca...posted while you were posting:)

Shawn

[adehost.com]

Originally posted by orca
Well, security...Mostly, Win systems are affected if it comes to Worms, Viruses etc. So you'd always need to be very up2date.
Not that you shouldn't be concerned about security with Unix/Linux. But Win systems are more affected.

Good afternoon Orca,

the security statement about the windows platform in general is alot of flub. PLease let me explain why.

as a host that does both win2k and linux I have found that since march first both linux and win2k are neck to neck in security patches. way over 35 each ( this is covering the auto update types only ), this is covering the interal platform items also ( dns, mail, php, apache.... ).

Now what people don't see or don't care to notice is that, unix in general, rarely requires a reboot to re-establish the new updated services and or upgrades. This feature is does not exsist in win2k platform for 90% of all upgrades ( sometimes they have them for hotfixes ).

where uptime reliability is concerned, unix has the game almost hands down, windows needs to be rebooted at least 1 time every 200 - 240 hours ( helps keep the memory leaks to the minimum )

As for viruses, that could be a nonissue if this is a production server based on only 1 user you just have to be quick to make sure you do the updates LOL

Mike

[Arkham]

Originally posted by shawn gibson
Thanks SaintDog. I now have another, less feasible option: the company I work for has just authorized a loan for me of $1250 Canadian to buy a server at home if I want it. I have Rogers Hi-Speed as an ISP (cable). Is this a better alternative? I have many friends in IT who could keep the shock of setting up initially minimal.

I'm going to check into the hosting companies you listed in the meantime.

You can't realistically run a server on Rogers...

You'd only be getting 160-200Kb (~16-20KB) upstream (which would be most of your traffic). If you need to do it from home, you could go with a good dsl line, like AEI's 3.5Mb/800K connection for $50. (www.aei.ca), or www.istop.com for a similar package.

But you're probably better off just paying for hosting.

[shawn gibson]

My idea is to get mocked up sites running, and when/if they take off, tell the client the can migrate to dedicated hosting. I don't use a credit card either, so I'd be relying on other's money (ugh...).

I will DEFINITELY look into that service/website. Sounds like the way to go--Rogers has told me they don't offer routing for their Business Solution in my area yet:(

Shawn

[shawn gibson]

I've emailed aei to see if they can help me in the bandwidth department:)

[shawn gibson]

Well that stinks, aei wants $200/month because I'm residential and their LAN service starts at $200/month.

On the good side, Rogers has told me they could care less if I run a server, but I'll have to keep checking my IP because it's not static.

[Arkham]

Originally posted by shawn gibson
Well that stinks, aei wants $200/month because I'm residential and their LAN service starts at $200/month.

$200?? For what? Unless you're running some huge file servers you shouldn't have any problem with the $50 package. And if you're running everything on your home server, that's really all you'd need isn't it?

Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

On the good side, Rogers has told me they could care less if I run a server, but I'll have to keep checking my IP because it's not static.

Again, are you sure you want to do that? It'll be dog slow, especially if you want more than one person using it at a time.

[shawn gibson]

No, you are correct, their reason was that I'm in a residential area. I don't get it either.

This is starting to get extremely expensive and I still don't make any money doing it.

[shawn gibson]

Wait a sec...are you saying I should just get the $50 service and keep my mouth shut with them?

[Arkham]

Originally posted by shawn gibson
Wait a sec...are you saying I should just get the $50 service and keep my mouth shut with them?

Pfft, YEAH. Lots of people do it. Of course, that's not a reason to do it yourself. ;)

It's for "testing" purposes afterall, isn't it? I don't see the problem unless you're completely abusing the allotted bandwidth, which it doesn't sound like you'd be doing.

It's not a long-term solution, but it should get you off the ground. But again, while the 800Kb upstream is far better than cable's 150-odd Kb, the site will still be kinda slow. You're better off with a semi- or full-dedicated (or co-lo) hosting package somewhere.

[shawn gibson]

I'll do it. Cool.