Who likes the new WYSIWYG ?

[Burns]

Sorry to critizise again, but i dont like it...

I did not used all the functions yet,
but it is very annoying for me to use every time SHIFT
for the simple line break ( like in Word )

What is wrong with the old wysiwyg anyway ?

Well, dont mean it is so bad, but i dont want to force my users to learn how to use the forum;
i invite them so they can come and post,
as simple as possible...
This SHIFT-Enter thingy is so uncommon yet,
some ppl. ( younger or just new to computer branche ),
will probably even have no idea why they get "2 brakes" instead of one !

- forget it :D
( see the next post )

[Burns]

hehe...
OK, guess i was wrong here, actually the vB2 has no wysiwyg :),
and the new one rocks ! ( yes );
anyway i would preffer to have "Enter" key for brake ;)

[Grover]

Hi,

Although I can not try out the new WYSIWIG-editor (cause I use IE 5.0.....) the use of the 'Shift'-key doensn't sound good at all, I am afraid. :(

---> I really do wish this to be changed in a future version. Reading all the threads.....I am not the only one.

Secondly....I've looked at some postings over at the beta-site and I must say I am a bit *scared* of the new possibilities with this WYSIWIG editor. The thing is....people can now use some VERY large font-sizes apparently. And with all those colors and HUGE sizes you can BET on it that a lot of people will mis-use these possibilities on your forums. I do not want to have to scroll through postings containing HUGE text-fonts in all those different colors...it is REALLY annoying to read really.

I want my forums to be a HOME for my visitors. It has to be SIMPLE and INTUITIVE ('shift-enter' is NOT that) to use. At the moment I immediately feel the urge to remove all the posts with contains those extremely huge fonts, if it was my own site.

Just my 2 cents,
Grover.

[filburt1]

I like the old one better, being a coder. Much faster to type text rather than text, then select it and click bold.

[Burns]

Sorry for you Grover, i feel your pain...
At work i have to test the software in different environments,
and every IE version has own small bugs or missed functionalities,
which can casue something crash or not functioning propertly.
I hope vB team fix the problem, with IE 5.0

Oh, i think it will be usefull if you post the complete version number of your IE:
there are different among 5.0

[Kier]

Originally posted by filburt1
I like the old one better, being a coder. Much faster to type text rather than text, then select it and click bold. Try typing "Hello [ctrl+b]here is some bold text[ctrl+b] how do you like it?"There are also short cuts for ctrl+i, ctrl+u, ctrl+z...

Besides which, you can still type the vbcodes in long-hand if you want to.

[filburt1]

Bah, still don't like it :p I don't even use the vB Code buttons that already in vB2.

[Kier]

Originally posted by Grover
Although I can not try out the new WYSIWIG-editor (cause I use IE 5.0.....) the use of the 'Shift'-key doensn't sound good at all, I am afraid. :( Shift-enter inserts a <br /> into the HTML editor, while Enter on it's own ends the current <p> tag and starts another. As most people tend to end a paragraph with a double line break anyway, the new system will actually reduce the number of keystrokes necessary.
....people can now use some VERY large font-sizes apparently. And with all those colors and HUGE sizes you can BET on it that a lot of people will mis-use these possibilities on your forums. I do not want to have to scroll through postings containing HUGE text-fonts in all those different colors...it is REALLY annoying to read really.vB3 uses the same code markup as vB2...

And you can use huge fonts in vB2 as well...

See?

[Wayne Luke]

The shift-enter will be very confusing for the entire non-technical group of people. The system should also downgrade to the VB2 style buttons if the browser doesn't support the WYSIWYG editor.

Personally, I don't think I will use it because it is very annoying and forces me to copy and paste into a real text editor to format long messages the exact way I want them to be.

[Radon3k]

What exactly is "WYSIWYG"?

I never did understand this..

[Freddie Bingham]

Since we already have the option to use the vBcode links in the profile, we need to add an option to it that allows one to select None, the Old, or the New (which is only shown on posts if it is supported anyway).

[Chen]

Originally posted by Radon3k
What exactly is "WYSIWYG"?

I never did understand this..

Stands for What You See Is What You Get.

[Grover]

Originally posted by Kier
Shift-enter inserts a <br /> into the HTML editor, while Enter on it's own ends the current <p> tag and starts another. As most people tend to end a paragraph with a double line break anyway, the new system will actually reduce the number of keystrokes necessary.
vB3 uses the same code markup as vB2...

And you can use huge fonts in vB2 as well...

See?

Hi Kier,

Concerning point 1 (shift-enter) :
I totally agree with what Wluke says:

The shift-enter will be very confusing for the entire non-technical group of people

It just shows that VBulletin is still somewhat aimed at the more 'professional' user. But the majority of people *USING* a webboard are NOT. They are your average user or even newbies. The majority of people just want an EASY and SIMPLE to use discussion board.

Concerning point 2 (LARGE fonts) :
Well.....you won't believe this, but thanks to your remark this is THE FIRST TIME I found out that I could use LARGER sizes than 'size=4' ! I always used the values provided by the 'Size-dropdownlist' : small (size=1), large (size=3) and huge (size=4). I never knew that one could actually type in '[size=5] or higher (!) as a VB-tag!

Therefore....if even I didn't know this, you can bet that most of my users on my board don't know it as well. VB2.x only provides the 'small, large and huge' values, which are just fine.

The examples on the beta site showed me that VB3 apparently gives easier access to even LARGER fonts etc.... when it becomes easier for a user to use these extremely large fontsizes, I think you might find a couple of users taking advantage of that and just 'play along with this feature' and mess up the 'easy reading' of the board.

I think it just doesn't look good. (the large fonts itself and the fact that it can be abused). In my opinion you can easily stick with the 3 'default' sizes provided by VB2.x : so much easier reading. What is the use of these extremely large fonts anyway?

Grover.

[TWTCommish]

Originally posted by freddie
Since we already have the option to use the vBcode links in the profile, we need to add an option to it that allows one to select None, the Old, or the New (which is only shown on posts if it is supported anyway).
'Twould be perfect. :)

[Chen]

Originally posted by TWTCommish
'Twould be perfect. :)
Yup, that's how the WYSIWYG hack for vB2 works. :)

[Kier]

Originally posted by Grover

The examples on the beta site showed me that VB3 apparently gives easier access to even LARGER fonts etc.... when it becomes easier for a user to use these extremely large fontsizes, I think you might find a couple of users taking advantage of that and just 'play along with this feature' and mess up the 'easy reading' of the board.There is an options section where you can very easily edit the fonts and sizes available in the pull-down menus.

[Grover]

There is an options section where you can very easily edit the fonts and sizes available in the pull-down menus. .

AH! If this is possible in the Admin CP, it is indeed great! Really, this is just what I needed: an Admin option to change those values!

Keep up the good work!
Grover.

[Sal Collaziano]

I don't even need to read passed the first couple of posts in this thread. ENTER should mean <br> not <p>... Period!

[TWTCommish]

I have to agree. A lot of newbies'll be scratching their heads, no doubt. It's just one more thing to explain.

[Sal Collaziano]

I really have to wonder how the newbies would work with this. I just tried it again - a few times - and I'm actually liking it now.. Maybe it just took a minute to get used to. Maybe it would be natural for a newbie.. I dunno.

[Mike Sullivan]

The enter/shift-enter thing is something we're playing with. Of course, IE's not being particularly helpful but we are trying. :)

[ProxyMX]

where cna i get vb3 beta? ive only seen it in action, and are u allowed to run one testvb alongside your functional vb?

[TWTCommish]

1 - It's not available for download yet.

2 - Yes, but it can't be made public.

[floleb7]

use shift + enter seems to be as harder than vbcode tag or vbcode system in vB2 :)

juste put a sentence here
<<
with shift + enter = 1 line break
enter = 2 lines break that's all

[ProxyMX]

this is good news.

[Radon3k]

What is the point of "WYSIWYG" then?

I really don't understand this at all...maybe I'm just too tired...

[Erwin]

Actually, my site has been running the WYSIWYG hack for vB2 for about 1-2 months now - my members, the majority who are non-technical, love it. They like the MS-Word-like interface and keyboard short-cuts that are available. Those who don't like it can disable it and use the normal interface anyway.

[TECK]

Originally posted by wluke
The shift-enter will be very confusing for the entire non-technical group of people. The system should also downgrade to the VB2 style buttons if the browser doesn't support the WYSIWYG editor.

Personally, I don't think I will use it because it is very annoying and forces me to copy and paste into a real text editor to format long messages the exact way I want them to be. sorry to say this luke but we are in 21century. hotmail and yahoo (2 of the most popular email accounts in the world) incorporate this system in their compose/reply system. so is hard for me to believe that people dont know about it.
also all browsers suport WYSIWYG, unless you are a prehistoric win95 survivor and didnt bother to update your pc for almost 10years. :)
hmmm... i dont call netscrape a browser... it's time is well gone since IE5.

[JamesUS]

My biggest client (a company made up of 5000 users of vB, 4900 of which are non computer literate) have been crying out for this for so long. They all find the current system confusing and difficult to use. Unfortunately they are mainly running IE 5.0 so I'm going to see the IT Manager next week to try and get him to upgrade them to IE 5.5 so that we can use this system.

I can't think of any 'group' of people who aren't going to like this. Personally, I love it. I think it's one of the most important changes in vB 3. Non-computer literate users will love it because it's so much easier to use than what we have now. Non-computer literate people aren't even using code at the moment so their posts look bland and plain - anything is an improvement. The people in between will like it because it makes their lives a bit easier and posting is much quicker without having to type code.

In my opinion, the slight inconvenience caused by the double line break is far outweighed by the ease of the new system. It's never essential to use a single break, and I'll just use the new double breaks without a second thought. Hopefully we'll find a way to change it but I'm not sure if this is possible with IE's engine. Kier will be the only one who know's for sure :)

[Wayne Luke]

Originally posted by nakkid
sorry to say this luke but we are in 21century. hotmail and yahoo (2 of the most popular email accounts in the world) incorporate this system in their compose/reply system. so is hard for me to believe that people dont know about it.
also all browsers suport WYSIWYG, unless you are a prehistoric win95 survivor and didnt bother to update your pc for almost 10years. :)
hmmm... i dont call netscrape a browser... it's time is well gone since IE5.

Actually, I use Hotmail daily and I don't have to hit shift-enter to create a linebreak in my messages. I do have to hit enter twice to create a new paragraph mark.

I use Microsoft Word on a regular basis and I don't have to hit shift-enter to create a single linebreak.

I use other WYSIWYG editors based on MSHTML.DLL and don't have to hit shift-enter to create a linebreak. Personally, in my opinion the best editor to use this technology can be found at: http://www.labs4.com/editbox.php . I use it in OSCommerce and never had to hit shift-enter.

My dislike has nothing to do with the technology. But an implementation of it that I feel can be improved upon.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally posted by JamesUS
It's never essential to use a single break, and I'll just use the new double breaks without a second thought.

I disagree. I often type code examples into vBulletin text areas and other information where formatting is necessary. Before now it was never necessary to open a second program to get the formatting right for these needs. Now it is without a lot of hassle. Heck, I am a programmer and am not used to using shift-enter for a linebreak any program outside of a memo field in Microsoft Access.

[Tungsten]

Can (or is it already so?) the WYSIWG editor's availability be made optional within the administrative console? I mean, those of us who don't like it could just disable it for our forums. Or at the very least it should be user configurable so that each user can decide which version of the editor they wish to use.

I, for one, am with Wayne Luke on this. I don't like it... but that doesn't mean that some of my users wouldn't.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally posted by Tungsten
Can (or is it already so?) the WYSIWG editor's availability be made optional within the administrative console? I mean, those of us who don't like it could just disable it for our forums. Or at the very least it should be user configurable so that each user can decide which version of the editor they wish to use.

I, for one, am with Wayne Luke on this. I don't like it... but that doesn't mean that some of my users wouldn't.

It is user configurable.

[Grover]

wluke said:


I use other WYSIWYG editors based on MSHTML.DLL and don't have to hit shift-enter to create a linebreak.


Can somebody explain to me what the exact problem is then? Why is it difficult to change that for the MSHTML.DLL implementatin of VB3, as you say other WYSIWIG editors based upon the same technology have no problem with it?

Grover.

[Kier]

If anyone can show me code that modifies mshtml to insert a linebreak rather than a paragraph mark on the [enter] keystroke, and does not break list/alignment functionality, I will gladly implement it.

[Grover]

Hi Kier,

Thanx for that. Sorry...can't help you out (as I am not a 'programmer').

I've just upgraded to IE 6.0, especially for the VB3 WYSIWIG! (I must be MAD! :D)

I would just like to say to you that it (the wysiwig) is an enourmous IMPROVEMENT compared to Vb2! So thank you very much!

Sorry if this has been asked before, but:

1. Why can't I select the 'quote' tags anymore? The thing is...VERY often I copy and paste some text out of the discussions and put the [ quote ] -tags around those text. I would be very handy if I can copy and past some selection and then press a button which autmatically puts those tags around the selection. Just like the Bold, Italic etc-buttons work.

2. Not very essential really, but I was just wondering if the buttons could be a bit more 'intuitive'? With that I mean.... if you click on a button it doens't look like it is pressed. MS Word for example shows that the button is pressed. The second thing is: when you've made an textselection BOLD and click into this text....the button doesn't change either. In MS Word for example....the button changes to a 'on'-state if you click inside a text that is made bold. It's nothing essential, but it could be a little improvement of the user-experience.

Thank You.
Grover.

[Kier]

Wrapping tags like that is very easy with the new system... I just haven't quite got around to it yet... patience my young padawan :)

[s.molinari]

Hmmmm.....Grover's 2nd suggestion looks awfully familiar.

In other words, I agree.

:D

Scott

[Grover]

Originally posted by Kier
Wrapping tags like that is very easy with the new system... I just haven't quite got around to it yet... patience my young padawan :)

Thanx Kier. I will try to be patient! (<-- is this correct english? :D)

It looks very promising, the new wysiwig!

[Grover]

Originally posted by s.molinari
Hmmmm.....Grover's 2nd suggestion looks awfully familiar.

In other words, I agree.

:D

Scott

Ah...did you suggest the same thing? I wasn't aware of that (as I said in my posting) ;)

[samtha25]

Originally posted by JamesUS
I can't think of any 'group' of people who aren't going to like this.
Then, you haven't my group. We don't even use propotional fonts in the composition boxes. Nor are you considering the many sites that don't like the use of RFT. All I want to know is if it can be disabled completely.

Personally, I love it. I think it's one of the most important changes in vB 3.
Frankly, I could list a couple dozen other improvements I would have preferred to see Jelsoft spend time on.

BTW, it's not WYSIWYG. It's just a basic RTF editor.

[JamesUS]

Yes, it is WYSIWYG. WYSIWYG is the idea of the text in the editor appearing largely as it does in the forum - and that's how our editor works.

It may require a template edit to remove it completely - however I still can't see why it would cause any problems. The only confusing issue that remains is the double-line break caused by hitting enter which we are working on. Other than that if people don't want to use the clever buttons etc then they don't have to.

[s.molinari]

Originally posted by Grover


Ah...did you suggest the same thing? I wasn't aware of that (as I said in my posting) ;)

Yes I did, but you could never have known so no prob.:)

Scott