News : Vbulletin 3.0, Date, features...

[megatest]

Read all the post, please.

Vbulletin 3.0 date of availabality :

[updated]
- Two main developers wrote on that board, a Beta
will probably will be out in september but it can be
later, and they will not answer further question about
that.

Vbulletin 3.0 new features :

- Probably many ones, but the REAL idea people must
focus on (according to me) is that Vbulletin Team
worked now on 3.0 release as a brick of a community
building. They posted little about new features.
You should thank them for that :) Here are some of them :
- Optional threaded view
- Completely revamped template system
- Karma
- User ranks per usergroup
- A many to one relationship of Usergroups to User
- Restyled Admin CP
- Lots of other stuff I can't find right now but I'm sure it
has been leaked...
- Custom profile fields have been revamped and you can
now search by them
- Admin sets what fields are shown on Memberlist (including
custom profile fields)

- Calendar modifications => see that thread (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=30348)

- Probably password protected sections/forums

- The team makes many jokes about non-sens fiction features,
be aware :) !

- VB3 WILL NOT INTEGRATE ANY CHAT
OR INSTANT MESSAGING SYSTEM

The second optional product : The CMS

- The VBTeam also worked on a paralell project that
will be their second major product : a new C.M.S.

Definition of a CMS for the hamsters... (not easy) :
C.M.S.=
Content Managment System = Script that deals with
users but not only as people that make posts on forums,
but also as people who wrote articles, reviews, and
comments about these articles and reviews... people
who want to have a more global profile page, not only
forum or chat-oriented, etc... A script that deals with
dynamic content outside the forum too, with different
level of rights too etc...

- The CMS will be available as an option for Vbulletin 3.0.
According to Team posts I read, Vbulletin 3.0 is completly
independant to their new optional CMS, people who will
want only a Forum won't need to bother about the CMS.

- The CMS will be available AFTER vbulletin 3.0, no date
are fixed, it could be a month or two, I think they will
have work to deal with the feedback of the 3.0. But
remember they are already working on the CMS too.
In some deep threads, they sayd that some standard
CMS features are already working.

- The CMS will be sold like an optional commercial product,
no price is fixed yet.

a CMS is not a portal system :
- and this is not only a Thread to "News" visualisation.
But with a CMS, it is usually not too difficult to make a portal.

========== That's all :) ==================

I wrote this post to sum up all informations i hardly
obtain with reading many many many threads on that
forum and on vbulletin.org forum and other places.

I hope the Team will gain a little time. Do not ask them
QUESTIONS you KNOW they will not answer, vbulletin
is their WORK so they are the first interested people to
say things the sooner it is possible, and by themselves.
I will not complain or post stupid things if they'll edit or
correct my post. You can directly edit it. :)
I will make a second post in reply to his one for a more
personnal vision. So read replies if interested before
replying to this post for asking ME something.

[megatest]

As I said, I reply to myself :)

Here are some products people should test, users
and team because there are good products with many
problems, so it could be inspiration to develop or to
make hack.

Forum
-The thread treeview visualisation of Gossamer Gforum threads
You must register to a board to see it. It is extended to
forum sections treeview, i hope VB3 will allow that and perhaps
a activeX edit post system like their one (for total nubbies).
Try to find by yourself the link, if you are interested. :)

CMS
-http://developer.ez.no/ (EZpublish)
-http://www.techimo.com
(a non publicly availiable work as I know, just look)

Portal and CMS
- http://www.metadot.net
- http://www.metadot.net/metadot/userchannel.pl

Portal
- http://www.phpportals.com (Vbportal, everybody know :)

Two final things :
- I hope Vbulletin 3 and the CMS option will make things easy
to make a great global work like this site
http://www.techimo.com
the makers of Photopost made a real GREAT and big
work around Vb.

- One thing is certain, I will work on making a thing like :
http://www.metadot.net/metadot/userchannel.pl
for Vbulletin 3 + CMS or only Vb3 +Vbportal...
It is a mypage visualisation like myyahoo or myexcite,
mynetscape.

People interested to think about this project : making
a my.page style portal page for the the future VB 3 + CMS
or for VB3 + Vbportal, it depends of what will be in those
works, or have informations to correct me, to add, ...
can reply to this thread.

I'd like to add that most of those products listed here
are not as oriented to final users as Vb.

[klisis]

......... (I got no idea why you spent time to write that)

[megatest]

because I spend days to learn those little things :)
So it may be perhaps usefull to new people.

... and it is a part of something I wrote for a small group of
friends of mine, a little only private mailing list for webmaters.

[ndiegel]

What was that little button about Karma? Can you explain more of this? Sounds like a user rating to me. :)

[KarateKid[WBC]]

@ Developers,

are these points right? :)

and would these be the only changements?

[megatest]

As is said, this was "some of them" i Think.

[chrispadfield]

not commenting but at last people understand what a CMS is :)

[Jake Bunce]

Originally posted by chrispadfield
not commenting but at last people understand what a CMS is :)

but it will have an UI right? that's a portal to me. ;)

[chrispadfield]

but every program has a UI and that does not make it a CMS ...

[Jake Bunce]

Originally posted by chrispadfield
but every program has a UI and that does not make it a CMS ...

so it does have a UI, and it is a CMS, so all the bases are covered. you guys keep making it sound like the vB 3 CMS is just a backend, nothing more.

[chrispadfield]

No, it will, I believe, use templates just like the rest of vb. It is a CMS and not a portal, because as I understand it, it will not have things like polls, shoutboxes, downloads, links etc and all the other clutter on the typical 3 column page. Its aim is to manage content but I am sure there will be plenty of people to hack other stuff into it as well :)

[megatest]

Finally, I did it :)

Order number: RE7202996
Date of purchase: Fri May 10 00:11:34 2002 EST
Subtotal: US$85.00

that's cool no developper have denied informations
provided in this thread :)

[DWZ]

Originally posted by megatest
Finally, I did it :)

Order number: **********
Date of purchase: Fri May 10 00:11:34 2002 EST
Subtotal: US$85.00

that's cool no developper have denied informations
provided in this thread :) err... should you really be posting your order number?

[megatest]

for my order number : why not ? :)

And for questions about portal...

As I already said in the first post,
Vbulletin 3 will not be a portal.

You can hope Vbportal will be able to be
a possible portal solution for vbulletin 3.

See there for people who do not already know vbportal...

http://www.phpportals.com

[Surfer]

The new CMS system is just what I am looking for!!!!
There are three systems that I need, besides vB.
Reviews, articles and a news system.

I like the Reviews system that is here http://www.incursio.com/products/censura/index.html

and I would like the news system to be a system that is easy to post news with, i.e. something similar to posting a forum thread but with improved abilities to add inline images. and then a news viewer that you can customize to suit your needs. Each news/article should of course have the ability to add comments though vB.

Aloha

:)

[freehtml]

i am also looking for a good CMS system for my site.

Had tried PHP-Nuke, phpweblog (currently using) , vBportals... and postnuke also..

I want a simple to use CMS with easy templates editing.

[megatest]

I think people do not know what READING means...
Do not be upset... BUT :

Portals systems ARE NOT CMS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A very good example of misunderstanding is
the last post of freehtml :) All the products he gave
are Portals and news systems, not CMS.

Please read the first posts of that thread to understand
the differences.

Tanx

[Beramode]

I heard vB 3 will have a chat feature. Is this true?

[Steve Machol]

Originally posted by Beramode
I heard vB 3 will have a chat feature. Is this true? No.

[Razgo]

Ok, so knowing what the difference between what a cms/portal is,
like Xoops, postnuke, etc....

is there an example of a "true cms" system somewhere that can kind of demonstrate what it might look/interact like?

[Razgo]

never mind, megatest put some links to what constitutes a cms. i will go and have a look at them.

[Razgo]

I think this link that megatest put is probably the closest thing to a great looking cms i have seen. all content does seem to be centered/focused around the forum to give that easy to interact ability. and it is a VB as well.

if a VB cms is anything like this, I will pre order now :D

http://www.techimo.com

[jmd]

Why pay for a CMS when you can get a portal for free??

If Im not mistaken I belive the roomer was that the new CMS will be around 40 dollars US, of 75 dollars Canadian

Is vPortal owned by vBulletin???
If so this is free if Im not mistaken, so why pay for a CMS??

Thanks

[tubedogg]

vBportal is an independent project. It is not up to vBulletin's coding standards. It is also not a CMS. A CMS is different from a portal and vice-versa. vBportal handles articles by storing them as threads. While this is an easy way of doing it, it ties your forum into your articles and vice-versa which is not ideal. The vB CMS will have it's own proper tables for storing the articles and such.

[megatest]

"Why pay for a CMS when you can get a portal for free?? "

I translate this sentence as :

Why pay a for a Mercedes when you can have popocorn for free.

CMS IS SIMPLY NOT A PORTAL.

So you'll be able to add the free portal system
to the Vbulletin 3 + CMS.

Please reread the entire thread, CMS is about articles, reviews,
it is centering around the content.

Portal are just a simple way of putting some threads on a
frontpage with some little useless boxes... You can already
code a portal with the actual Vbulletin, that is what Vbportal
team did.

CMS is about dealing with the whole content, separating
content and layout, having other things that simple threads,
having some moderators for more things, and granting
users more things to do. Please reread the entire thread.

I think yes, www.techimo.com is a really good CMS
implementation around vbulletin, I hope Vbulletin 3 can
make possible things like that.

[Razgo]

good questions jmd.

the short answer from me would be

why pay for forums when there are free ones out there?

I've been through all the free cms and free forums. well not all of them, but a lot.

I now own 2 Vbulltin forums and will soon own a VB cms when it is released.

the thing is I have never found a cms combined with a forum that it supported by one company/support group.

sure there are cms/portal sytems that do intergrate a forum from a 3rd party, or in the case of Xoops they have there own forum based on a really ancient version of phpbb (yuk)

If VB were to release a cms as good as it's forums, it will always work well together. and support will come from the same team.

and all cms systems do work slighly different to one another. so it's a matter of finding one that suits you. just like looking for a forum software that suits your purpose.

what i have found is the free forums and cms systems out there tend to loose perspective and generally don't have a front end team that manages the communications between the developers and end users.

having said that, I am still drooling over www.techimo.com

[jmd]

Good points guys

Thanks for the explanation.

Cheers:) :) :) :)

OK Hurry up and release the thing:D :D :D :D :D

[Surfer]

Will the new CMS system include a news system?? I need to know this as I am choosing between scripts right now!

Exactly what kind of formats will the CMS system have? Only articles, or will there be different kind of articles, i.e news, reviews, articles etc...

Thanks

:)

[megatest]

A question for the actual Vbulletin and the next release...

The PDA expansion is great now...

I saw many people asking if vbulletin forum can be easily
read on a PDA, is there a way to make another style for
a special "PDA gateway".

For low resolution Things.... like 320*240 is there a way
to have an easier visualisation of a vbulletin forum ?

Any Wap plugin or other things ?

Is it planned to be take in consideration in the Vbulletin 3 ?

Stupid questions ?

[megatest]

No answer about viewing easily Vb forum on Pda ?

Any idea about that ?

[mrlister]

I just have one quick comment to make. Many people here are looking for "advanced" features and want vBulletin to pretty much make their site. I see lots of faces glow up at the thought of integrating chats, reviews, sections for your site but the main point is vBulletin is a forum. It's not meant to be like phpNuke and be a "site in one" where all you do is install it and you have a site with lots of features. Some websites are just a forum and that's fine but most people seem to be loosing track that this is a forum rather then a CMS or a portal or whatever you may call it.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally posted by mrlister
I just have one quick comment to make. Many people here are looking for "advanced" features and want vBulletin to pretty much make their site. I see lots of faces glow up at the thought of integrating chats, reviews, sections for your site but the main point is vBulletin is a forum. It's not meant to be like phpNuke and be a "site in one" where all you do is install it and you have a site with lots of features. Some websites are just a forum and that's fine but most people seem to be loosing track that this is a forum rather then a CMS or a portal or whatever you may call it.

That is why features like the CMS will sold as add-ons and not come in the main vBulletin package. This way if you choose to use it, then you can. If you want to use something else you can. If you simply want to use vBulletin all by itself, you can. Freedom of choice.

[megatest]

As I explained in the beginning of this thread,
I think the forum is the real hearth of a community.

Personnaly, I can't imagine to have a site without
a community of users... so the forum need to be
the central thing.

I know that everybody is asking too much but
vbulletin is one of the rare product to think about
really integrate the forum as the central thing.

Phpnuke and nuke-like means nothing to me, Portals
are all equal and not so important.

I was hesitating with UBB, phBB, Gossamer Forum...
and I saw none of them to have such many "ready to
use" customization and so much opened structure as Vb.
I was dreaming about the CMS option when I read
a thread about it here, and the next week, I bought
Vbulletin. I'm currently working on Flash+Html+php
integration for a good looking frontend for vbulletin,
and a friend of mine asked recently about the PDa
accessibility. This friend is thinking about making a
really small vbulleltin style to be as much as possible
readable on PDA.

I hoped that some other people will think about
that issue and that perhaps the team will consider
having an option like that... like having a CMS option...

For now, I'm looking for that kind of things on the user
side, i'm reading the vbulletin.org archive for some
days... Email or pm me if you find something to make
the vbulletin access easier on PDA (low definition display)

[megatest]

I did not read anything about that but it seems many people
are making more wysiwyg post editor without the need of
showing Tags... and wordpad-like style buttons.

Is it planned to have something like that in vbulletin 3 ?
Or like for Gossamer Gforum the choice between to editors,
it the wysiwyg only works for recent IE ?

[rascal]

Originally posted by wluke


That is why features like the CMS will sold as add-ons and not come in the main vBulletin package. This way if you choose to use it, then you can. If you want to use something else you can. If you simply want to use vBulletin all by itself, you can. Freedom of choice.

Will the CMS add-on cost more than a licence vB?

[Wayne Luke]

Originally posted by rascal


Will the CMS add-on cost more than a licence vB?

Pricing hasn't been determined but it will cost separate from vBulletin.

[Floris]

Originally posted by wluke


That is why features like the CMS will sold as add-ons and not come in the main vBulletin package. This way if you choose to use it, then you can. If you want to use something else you can. If you simply want to use vBulletin all by itself, you can. Freedom of choice. I also wish we were free to choose which price to pay :D

[Wayne Luke]

Originally posted by xiphoid
I also wish we were free to choose which price to pay :D

You are... You can pay Jelsoft's prices or you can purchase elsewhere.

[Floris]

Originally posted by wluke


You are... You can pay Jelsoft's prices or you can purchase elsewhere. Yes, I understand that. But you know I didn't mean it like that :) :) As IF we would ever decide to go somewhere else.

I am actually very happy with the current prices. The only thing I wish to see changed are some aspects of the affiliate program. But that is probably besides the point. Anyway, thank you for commenting.

[megatest]

Originally posted by megatest
I did not read anything about that but it seems many people
are making more wysiwyg post editor without the need of
showing Tags... and wordpad-like style buttons.

Is it planned to have something like that in vbulletin 3 ?
Or like for Gossamer Gforum the choice between to editors,
it the wysiwyg only works for recent IE ?

uh uh... :rolleyes: anyone to answer, please :p

[JamesUS]

We don't know yet. We'd like to include a better posting/editing system but have yet to decide if this will happen or not.

[megatest]

I was recently suprised to see such editors not only on forum like Gforum but on mail editor like mail on yahoo.ca...

Most of them only works with IE 5.x or even 5.5 and + but
most our regular vistors have that so...

Have an Hard word ! :) I hope you 'll manage to do such things

[Floris]

Originally posted by JamesUS
We don't know yet. We'd like to include a better posting/editing system but have yet to decide if this will happen or not. Just make it happen.

[Floris]

*g*

[Nafae]

I created my own pda micro-style, simply by: removing EVERYTHING but the fewest things possible, shrinking fonts, getting rid of all images, and other things. It took me about 2 days to perfect, I recommend you do that.

[Chris M]

Any idea on the features of CMS?

I most likely will have bought a liscence by then, but would there be a discounted option for those buying both?

Satan

[Arkham]

Originally posted by hellsatan
Any idea on the features of CMS?

I most likely will have bought a liscence by then, but would there be a discounted option for those buying both?

Satan

That's a good question. I've halted development of my site until I can buy at least a beta vB3, and I'm already counting on the CMS for my needs.

If there was even a possibility of a discount or package of both vB and the CMS, I'd like to know. Otherwise I'll buy my long-overdue license as soon as a beta is available.

[Chris M]

I would rather wait a Month longer and pay like $200 (Im buying a Full Liscence not leased) than but it premature, and then have to pay more for CMS...

Satan

[megatest]

Some of the Jelsoft already told that there will not probably
have any discount on the CMS OPTION.

Because this is an OPTION ! :eek:

The CMS will not work without the "Basic" Forum.

and the CMS features will not be needed for most of the
actual users.

Let's hope the price will not be too high, I know many people
are already thinking about buying it... but do not say so too
loudly ;) or they will make the price higher :rolleyes:

[Arkham]

Originally posted by megatest
Some of the Jelsoft already told that there will not probably
have any discount on the CMS OPTION.

Because this is an OPTION ! :eek:

The CMS will not work without the "Basic" Forum.

and the CMS features will not be needed for most of the
actual users.

Let's hope the price will not be too high, I know many people
are already thinking about buying it... but do not say so too
loudly ;) or they will make the price higher :rolleyes:

Yeah, I know it's an option, but that doesn't mean a new-purchase discount wouldn't work.

It really doesn't matter, I've already committed myself to using whatever they put out. But since I don't yet have anything to play with, I've got to at least talk about it. ;)

Cheers.

[Jake Bunce]

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36725

*moving*

[Chris M]

I will definately get vB3...

No questions there...

CMS is on the cards...

I just want to know from, excuse the phrase, "The horses Mouth" exactly what CMS is, how it will enhance your site, and roughly how much it will cost...

Satan

[JamesUS]

Well. A CMS is a Content Management System and it allows you to manage content outside of a forum system on your site. This could include articles, reviews, etc.

I can't go into much more detail than that until we have a confirmed feature list for the vB CMS. We have not discussed pricing at all yet so I can't comment on that either :)

[rinkrat]

Originally posted by wluke


That is why features like the CMS will sold as add-ons and not come in the main vBulletin package. This way if you choose to use it, then you can. If you want to use something else you can. If you simply want to use vBulletin all by itself, you can. Freedom of choice.

If we want to use something else, will VB3 be compatible with CNS's like Postnuke (which I use now)?

[Superman53142]

Is the update from vB2 to vB3 going to be free or will another license have to be purchased?

[Steve Machol]

Originally posted by rinkrat
If we want to use something else, will VB3 be compatible with CNS's like Postnuke (which I use now)? No. You will have to hack this in. Jelsoft is going to come out with their own CMS for vB after 3.0 is released.

[andrewpfeifer]

Originally posted by Superman53142
Is the update from vB2 to vB3 going to be free or will another license have to be purchased?

As long as your members area access is still good, you should be able to upgrade without charge.:)

[Steve Machol]

Originally posted by andrewpfeifer
As long as your members area access is still good, you should be able to upgrade without charge.:) That's right, there will be no extra charge for vB 3.0.

[bigmattyh]

Originally posted by smachol
Jelsoft is going to come out with their own CMS for vB after 3.0 is released. I'm almost to the point where I won't buy the CMS, simply because I couldn't wait on it any longer...

[rawnet]

Hi,

I've seen quite a few WYSIWYG editors recently - Sitepoint and Gossamer Threads have their own. However, by far the best I've seen (it truly is amazing) is soEditor - http://www.siteobjects.com/pages/soeditorprodemo.cfm or http://www.siteobjects.com/pages/soeditorprodemo.cfm?object=166&method=showExamplethree - I've used this in my company's CMS and it is very powerful - includes integrated image uploads, CSS, etc, which would make it great for editing articles.

Although the main one is Cold Fusion powered, they have a PHP version in the pipeline, and most of the code is DHTML rather than CF anyway - easy to port.

Anyhoo, just thought you guys should have a look at it if you haven't already - the SiteObjects guys are keen on licensing deals I believe.

Really looking forward to what you've got coming,

Ross

[Neil]

It's encouraging to see the CMS discussed about so much, as I am one of the many people who has been waiting for such a thing with baited breath! I'm still a little unsure about what the definition of CMS is...

I am glad that we have all realised that portal does not equal CMS, but why are 'articles' always the example used to show what a CMS is? My site is a fan site, with lots of information on the topic. There is a hierarchical structure, with information on pages within that structure. For example in the "About the movie" section, there's "About the characters" then "About the lead character" etc.

To me, a CMS is a utility that will store each page of information as raw content, as well as information about it's place in the hierarchy, images associated with the information and links to related pages. This is not at ALL like an 'article' which is usually pretty much self-contained and independent of the rest of the content on the site.

The CMS should be able to style to content to whatever I choose, and even allow the user to change the style, while dynamically creating the navigation, based on the hierarchical information stored for each page of content.

This is what the real power of a CMS is. Flexible creation, storage and organisation of content. If we can combine this with the community built by the forum, then fan sites can be dynamic and living entities, rather than a bunch of static pages with a community bunged on top.

Is this the kind of thing that vBCMS will allow us to do?

[megatest]

I agree that a real CMS is what you described, but
the Jsolft CMS is a work around Vbulletin login and
forum community.

Like I said, look sites like http://www.techimo.com to
understand what a CMS/Vbulletin work could be.

When people spoke about articles, articles could be
on whatever you said precendtly, the only vbulletin
intégration is to consider the article as a start for a forum
thread.

CMS will probably allow to delagete some rights to
certain users users to make articles, I don't know what's
the point of view of vbulletin team for the customization
of articles and such things...

I only hope that content will be integrated in a well
structured database.

Perhaps jelsoft team can answer if all the content will
be in same database with the other forums posts...

Perhaps a new thread or a new forum section can be created
for CMS discussions too...

[Emwe]

Originally posted by rawnet

I've seen quite a few WYSIWYG editors recently - Sitepoint and Gossamer Threads have their own. However, by far the best I've seen (it truly is amazing) is soEditor - http://www.siteobjects.com/pages/soeditorprodemo.cfm or http://www.siteobjects.com/pages/soeditorprodemo.cfm?object=166&method=showExamplethree - I've used this in my company's CMS and it is very powerful - includes integrated image uploads, CSS, etc, which would make it great for editing articles.

Although the main one is Cold Fusion powered, they have a PHP version in the pipeline, and most of the code is DHTML rather than CF anyway - easy to port.

Anyhoo, just thought you guys should have a look at it if you haven't already - the SiteObjects guys are keen on licensing deals I believe.


Aaahhh!

This is just what I´ve been asking for in my previous posts on WYSIWYG editors. Hope you guys on the vB Team take a close look on this. soEditor go go go... :D

Mats Wall,
Stockholm
Sweden

[megatest]

People seems to be interested in wysiwyg, but i would
like to tell that since IE4 it is not very difficult to have
that kind of feature...

if you want to have some article about making such
things : www.insidedhtml.com/tips/contents/ts12/page1.asp

And by the way, you don't have to reinvent anything or
to buy expensive things with Cold fusion (urk!) server part
or whatever, (no need) there are free and open source
wysiwyg editors that are sufficient enough for what we
need and more :)

You can try that one (It requires IE 5.5 or more, but like
the build-in wysiwyg editor in gossamer Forum...)

http://www.laneve.com/Tech/XSDHEditor/

I insert a screen shot of this free and open source editor :

http://www.ceteus.com/vb/editor.gif

The source of this is here :
https://sourceforge.net/projects/xsdheditor/

in fact if you are really intersted in that kind of solution, you can
read this large list of widgets here :
http://www.bris.ac.uk/ISC/cms/ttw.html

Like some of other products, I think there should be two editors,
one for IE 5.x + and the actual standard one for the others.

I hope this post was a good summary :)

[leadZERO]

Well, I've been anxiously awaiting the release of vb3 since I first saw rumors about the features. As a side note one thing I didn't see in Megatest's list were calendar improvments, I'm guessing they have been added though since there has been so much talk about them.

As for the CMS, regardless of what a CMS really is I will probably buy it for three reasons.

1) It's less that I have to write myself for the site.
2) It's already going to be integrated into vb so it's less I have to do come upgrade time.
3) It's Jelsoft and it's a website product... It will help me and I'd rather support Jelsoft. They haven't let me down in the past.

[megatest]

For the new calendar... yes I forgot.. i add this to my first post :
"
- Calendar modifications => see that thread (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=30348)
"
But that thread was easy to find :)

[PBChannel]

Tis good to see an intelligent conversation about vB3 and vBCMS. :)

The only major request I have for vBCMS is an easily managable photo system, much like eZPublish.

Thanks! :D

[megatest]

I post here The Threaded Post view that disappaered from many
other posts :)

IT IS A VBULLETIN 3 SCREENSHOT (BETA) BUT NOT WITH THE
NEW VBULETTIN 3 SKIN.


http://www.ceteus.com/vb/vb3sc.jpg




______________ *************************************************

______________ But I hope that vbulletin team would rather prefer answering
____________ about the precedent "wysiwyg" editor discussion.

______________ *************************************************

[megatest]

I added to my first post :

- VB3 WILL NOT INTEGRATE ANY CHAT
OR INSTANT MESSAGING SYSTEM

I'll hope I will soon be able to add "wysigyg" editor for IE 5.5+... :)

[Freddie Bingham]

Originally posted by megatest
I'll hope I will soon be able to add "wysigyg" editor for IE 5.5+... :) You can...

As for the calendar, here are some things..
- recurring events (daily, weekly, monthly, yearly with a wide array of options)
- holiday support (including built in holidays such as Easter that can't be defined using the recurring options)
- multi day events
- weekly view
- event reminders (subscribe)
- "small" calendars of prev/next month displayed in monthly view
- custom input fields for events
- there are no longer public/private events. If you want a user to be able to post private events, you create a calendar with the 'canviewothersevents' permission disabled and 'canpostevents' enabled. Of course you can define these permissions per usergroup, per calendar as calendars have permissions just like forums have.
- calendar moderators
- ability to turn off displaying weekends on the calendar
.. and a little more

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by megatest
I added to my first post :

- VB3 WILL NOT INTEGRATE ANY CHAT
OR INSTANT MESSAGING SYSTEM

I'll hope I will soon be able to add "wysigyg" editor for IE 5.5+... :) I just wrote a hack for it.:) (WYSIWYG Editor)

[megatest]

it's fun Freddie quoted my sentence about the wysiwyg post
editor wondering ... and answer about calendar :rolleyes: ;)


*********************************************


uh.... eisecrure it's great you wrote a hacK...
euh... it could be greater by the way if we could know
more of it :p

[rawnet]

Hi,

I believe it's more of a template change than a hack, but who cares - is very cool indeed!!!

You'll find it at vbulletin.org :

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40130

Any news yet on when we get to see the Beta? I keep trying beta.jelsoft.com but pop-up boxes still there :(

R

[GameCrash]

Well... it would be cool if there would be that wysiwyg interface - but then please make it either Mozilla 1.0 compatible (it's not very good to say the Netscape users to stay out) or make it optional...

[tubedogg]

WYSIWYG interfaces will likely never work in Mozilla. Unfortunately that is the breaks. vB will still work in Mozilla, albeit without the fancy WYSIWYG posting box...

[megatest]

make it optionnal.

I love Mozilla but don't bother think about having
a wysiwyg crossbrowser compatible editor.

IE 5.5+ comaptability is enough.

Let the good old one for Netscape/ Mozilla and co,
the few people who use it know how to make a post
with that :)

[Emwe]

Tell me, Tubedogg...

...what´s the actual problem with incorporating a WYSIWYG posting editor that will work in 90% of the cases (IE 5.5+), and then letting the other 10% have the non-wysiwyg editor (making it optional)?

Declining to do so is like refusing to send TV programs in color because 10% of the households still have black-and-white television sets.

So, what´s the problem really? :confused:

Mats Wall
Stockholm

[tubedogg]

I think you all misunderstood me.

Let me try again. :)

vB3 will have a WYSIWYG interface for posting. It will not work in Mozilla, nor will it likely ever work in Mozilla. That's what I was saying - in response to GameCrash's request to make it work in Mozilla.

[Emwe]

Originally posted by tubedogg
vB3 will have a WYSIWYG interface for posting.

BINGO!

Mats Wall
Stockholm

[GameCrash]

As long as it is optional, it's great :)

But let me ask - what's the problem with Mozilla?

[bigmattyh]

Mozilla and Navigator have all sorts of freaky issues when it comes to... well, they STILL can't even get some of the basic, standard things right. Their abilities to handle dynamic content is much more limited than IE's. So in short, it's harder to write complex, cool stuff for Mozilla and Netscape (like a WYSIWYG editor), if it's even possible.

[DirectPixel]

Just a note that I will be releasing an update later today.

It'll allow you to properly quote others by pressing the quote button.
It will be compatible with the smilie and BBCode toolbars/toolbox
It will not have a 'save' button -- the form is automatically processed when the user presses submit or preview.:)

[Mike Sullivan]

Actually, it's more specifically because IE 5.5+ has a feature that allows you to easily make a WYSIWYG editor. Unless Mozilla/Netscape add that, they won't have one.

And trust me, it's a lot more than a template hack...

[DirectPixel]

heh... I've got a basic one working at my forum.

The only problem right now is browser compatibility and HTML2BBCode conversion...

[Kier]

I have to point out here that enabling HTML on your forums is still very risky, even when the input medium is a WYSIWYG editor.

This is because you can copy-and-paste entire segments of HTML from web pages into the <div contenteditable> and it will take them wholesale. That could include malicious visual basic scripts, javascript... the list is endless.

For this reason, most of the work I / we have done on the vB3 WYSIWYG editor is behind the scenes, on the HTML > vBcode and vBcode > HTML systems.

So just to reiterate, enabling HTML for posting on your forums is one of the things we discourage as strongly as possible.

[DirectPixel]

Okay...:(

Do you think I should stop development of it and wait for you to do the one in vB3?;)

[Kier]

Originally posted by eiSecure
Okay...:(

Do you think I should stop development of it and wait for you to do the one in vB3?;) No no, but I would recommend that you point out in your thread at vBulletin.org the dangers of enabling HTML for posting.

In the meantime, if you come up with some nifty HTML to vBcode systems I'd be interested to see how you're doing :) The vB3 system is just about done now, but it would be interesting to see if you tackle it in a different way from what I've done.

[DirectPixel]

heh... I've sort of got an HTML <font> to BBCode [font] conversion done...

It's kinda messy, and it's currently got a few bugs, though. Anyways, it's all just search & replace.:D;)

[Superman53142]

I've got a <font> to converter. Here's the function to do it. It returns the output in an alert box, but one line of code would send it back to the message textarea:


function switchit() {
var stuff = document.vbform.message.value;
var fontface = "";
var fontsize = "";
var otherthingie = "dsgae";
for (var i=0;i<stuff.length;i++) {
if (stuff.substr(i,5) == "<font" || stuff.substr(i,5) == "<FONT") {
var before = stuff.substr(0,i);
i++;
while (stuff.substr(i-1,1) != ">") {
if (stuff.substr(i,4) == "face") {
while (stuff.substr(i-1,1) != '=') {
i++;
}
var tempmark = i;
i=i+2;
if (stuff.substr(tempmark,1) != '"') {
while (stuff.substr(i,1) != " " && stuff.substr(i,1) != ">") {
i++;
}
}
else {
while (stuff.substr(i-1,1) != '"') {
i++;
}
}
fontface = stuff.substr(tempmark,i-tempmark);
}
if (stuff.substr(i,4) == "size") {
while (stuff.substr(i+1,1) != '>') {
i++;
}
fontsize = stuff.substr(i,1);
}
i++;
}
var after = stuff.substr(i,stuff.length-i);
var b=0;
while (after.substr(b,7) != "</font>" && after.substr(b,7) != "</FONT>") {
b++;
}
var aftbefore = after.substr(0,b);
var aftafter = after.substr(b+7,after.length-(b+7));
var sizend = "";
var fontend = "";
if (fontsize != "") {
sizend = "[/size]";
}
if (fontface != "" && fontface != '""') {
fontend = "";
}
after = aftbefore + sizend + fontend + aftafter;
var fonttag = "";
var sizetag = "";
if (fontface != "" && fontface != '""') {
fonttag = "[font=" + fontface + "]";
}
if (fontsize != "") {
sizetag = "[size=" + fontsize + "]";
}
stuff = before + fonttag + sizetag + after;
}
}
alert(stuff);
}

[DirectPixel]

Hey superman, does that work? We kept on getting errors when testing on my forum.

[The Prohacker]

I thought the way phpBB2 does it is pretty nice... I don't really care about a WYSIWYG editor, its just easier to highlight what you want and make it bold...

[Superman53142]

Originally posted by eiSecure
Hey superman, does that work? We kept on getting errors when testing on my forum.

It doesn't work yet. It's just a prototype. If all you have is a single <font....>dafsd</font> statement it'll work like a champ; I'm working on getting it to fully support everything, but I was in my pool all day :p

EDIT: Works now :p :D

I've updated the original code. That is WORKING <font> to [ font ] and [ size ] code.

[Paul]

Originally posted by The Prohacker
I thought the way phpBB2 does it is pretty nice... I don't really care about a WYSIWYG editor, its just easier to highlight what you want and make it bold...

There is a vbcode.js hack on vbulletin.org that accomplishes the same thing. It allows you to select text then apply the tags around it.

A WYSIWYG editor is a whole different ballpark. I'm awaiting eagerly for this thing to work :D

Paul

[DirectPixel]

It works.:)

The only thing that we're currently worried about is HTML2BBCode conversion.

If we get that right, then everything's finished, except for accomidating our fellow Netscape *cough* backwards *cough* users.:p

[Superman53142]

Originally posted by LoveShack


There is a vbcode.js hack on vbulletin.org that accomplishes the same thing. It allows you to select text then apply the tags around it.

A WYSIWYG editor is a whole different ballpark. I'm awaiting eagerly for this thing to work :D

Paul

Me too! :p

I'm gonna do some work on this tonight, and hopefully I can come up with HTML to BBCode conversion scripts for every function in the WYSIWYG editor. Then I will feel safe using it on my forum.

[DirectPixel]

*cough* Enhanced Mode *cough*:D ;) :p

[Superman53142]

Originally posted by eiSecure
*cough* Enhanced Mode *cough*:D ;) :p

Ick, LOL. That's a pain in the butt. All that does is add the "close open tags" options right?

[DirectPixel]

Should we remove that from our template?

[MUG]

Originally posted by Superman53142


Ick, LOL. That's a pain in the butt. All that does is add the "close open tags" options right? I personally like Enhanced Mode, it works well... :D

Can't wait to see more of vB 3! :)

[Freddie Bingham]

Why don't you use the thread over at vbulletin.org to discuss your project further? This thread seems to be intended for news regarding vBulletin 3.0

[Superman53142]

Originally posted by freddie
Why don't you use the thread over at vbulletin.org to discuss your project further? This thread seems to be intended for news regarding vBulletin 3.0

Hehe, sorry. I'm a natural thread crapper :p

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by Superman53142


Hehe, sorry. I'm a natural thread crapper :p heh...sorry...:) ditto as well.;)

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by Kier
No no, but I would recommend that you point out in your thread at vBulletin.org the dangers of enabling HTML for posting.

In the meantime, if you come up with some nifty HTML to vBcode systems I'd be interested to see how you're doing :) The vB3 system is just about done now, but it would be interesting to see if you tackle it in a different way from what I've done. Just to let you know, Kier, we've finished the hack.:)

It's got HTML to BBCode conversion as well as support for quoting and smilies and stuff.:)

[megatest]

Wondering : Is there any build in new feature regarding Images/pictures ? Like a personnal picture in Profile or
anything like that ?

[ Bonus question : And thinking about VbCMS, no photo gallery feature? ]

[DirectPixel]

vB3 will allow users to upload signature pictures, similar to the way that the avatars are handled.

This lets you limit how big a signature can be.:)

[megatest]

Great, it could allow people to have a sig picture without IMG tag and without having the border effect to allow people to track Ips of people accessing their pictures when the picture is on their own website...

Like yours Eisecure :)

"http://www.directpixel.com/links/directpixel.gif"

"Paranoiac tendencies" :)

[heretic]

I don't understand why people still think that revealing an IP address is a cause for panic or anything.

just get a firewall :rolleyes:

[megatest]

It is not about hacking.
It is about politic and ethic and logic.

On a standard forum like this, on every post,
you can read "Ip : logged" and if you click on it,
you see you have no right to have this informations,
but if a sig let you do this what's use of having permissions ?

And anonymity is a rare and hunted valor, today, after
the next 11-09 privacy hunting challenge.

I lived some times in Tunisia, where last month a young
man was condamned for two years in jails of horror just
because he spoke freely in a pro-democratic website against
the dictatorship.

So, I think it's a little part of webmaster's work to
protect users privacy.

The hacking threath was not my concern there.

[DirectPixel]

Well, just to let you know, I'm not keeping track of anybody's IPs. The only thing that's logged is the analog/webalizer stats, which basically every website does.

On the web, wherever you go, your IP is going to be logged. That's just a fact of life, since without an IP address, you cannot send/recieve data.

[megatest]

yes, you don't learn me anything for sure ;)

and my note was not against you :) you were
just an exemple of someone that can do this thing.

But what is not normal it's that a user of website can obtain
the Ips of others users of this website...

That was just the point I wanted to rise.

No more, no less.

So I'm happy to know that the sig upload feature will
be a build in feature of VB3.

[DirectPixel]

Okay, since you have nothing against me, can you at least click on the button?:D

[Mr.Neo]

So I hear the new AI feature is really going to blow us away?

[DirectPixel]

huh? :confused:

[Mr.Neo]

From a inside source I found out that there is going to be a AI system for the board. Its sounds big but its really a automated system to do things, such as open and close threads, close threads that violate a rule you enter in.. kind of like a virtual mod :D

[DirectPixel]

Just like the Intuitive Auto-Reply Engine, huh?:)

[hypedave]

Originally posted by Mr.Neo
From a inside source I found out that there is going to be a AI system for the board. Its sounds big but its really a automated system to do things, such as open and close threads, close threads that violate a rule you enter in.. kind of like a virtual mod :D

is that really true, or are you pulling our leg :confused:

[heretic]

Originally posted by hypedave


is that really true, or are you pulling our leg :confused:

sure, it's true. it's part of the UAP (ultimate administrator protocol)

the UAP manages tempates, news gathering, and can even close and split a thread should it go off-topic, leaving you, the administrator, to concentrate on other things.




Dave.......dave.....what are you doing, dave?

[hypedave]

Originally posted by heretic


sure, it's true. it's part of the UAP (ultimate administrator protocol)

the UAP manages tempates, news gathering, and can even close and split a thread should it go off-topic, leaving you, the administrator, to concentrate on other things.




Dave.......dave.....what are you doing, dave?


nah i got to have a Developer give an okay that that is a new feature in vb3, cause the drool thats coming out of mouth is so unreal, I could fire all my mods if that was the case :D

[bigmattyh]

Other things that have been leaked about the UAP:

1) Automatically checks for updates to vB every night (or whenever you set it to run via the Admin CP), and downloads and upgrades to the latest version.

2) Keeps a database of your hacks so that it can automatically re-install them when you upgrade (or it upgrades for you :) ). This is why FireFly released the vBHacker script a while ago... it was a hint of vB3.

3) Checks your color schemes against the UCR-1998 Standard Color Compatiblity Tables to check that your color scheme is pleasing to the eye.

4) Knowledge table database: This is the really cool thing. It keeps a dynamically updated database with answers to commonly asked questions. This allows you to keep a support/FAQ forum open, and whenever someone posts a question to the forum that there is an existing answer to, it posts a response, answering the user's question. Also might be used for general knowledge via an XML backend, to answer questions such as "Who won the baseball game tonight?" but we won't be able to tell until we try it.

That's all I've been able to confirm. I think it was originally a split off of a dev project at sourceforge at some point, back when it was called the "bb-user local controlled robotic administration project", but for some reason they changed the name. You ever wonder why John (the father of vB) has "Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity" in his sig? He loves the stuff.

[hypedave]

very interesting, is that realy true, show me the threads you got that from, this is to good to be true

[MUG]

He made that up... :D :p

[hypedave]

heck I thought so, I knew it was to to tooooooo good to be true,

[MUG]

This probably would have been better on April 1st. ;)

[John]

No, all is revealed here actually

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=247693#post247693

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by John
No, all is revealed here actually

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=247693#post247693 You use the word 'revealed'.

How come not the word 'confirmed'? ;)

[MUG]

Originally posted by John
No, all is revealed here actually

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=247693#post247693 lmao, testing custom fields he was... :D ;)

[leadZERO]

*shakes head* Gullible people like this keep telemarketers in business.

[bigmattyh]

I don't know about all that other stuff, but I do know for sure that the BB-User Local Controlled Robotic Administration Project was a real project at SourceForge. So some of that stuff may be true.

[chrispadfield]

So long the neural interface attachment is in vb3 I will be happy. John has been quiet about its progress for a while.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally posted by chrispadfield
So long the neural interface attachment is in vb3 I will be happy. John has been quiet about its progress for a while.

I heard there was problems with the hardware line in Malaysia. Something about level 5 air handlers when we need level 7 and manual chip insertion causing anomolies.

[leadZERO]

Originally posted by chrispadfield
So long the neural interface attachment is in vb3 I will be happy. John has been quiet about its progress for a while.

Must be using the new BRAINBUS technology.

[megatest]

I remember, when I began this thread...
I thought about making a clear thread with clear informations :)

How fool I can be sometimes :D

So, any non-joking clear informations about a possible
automatisated simple admin tasks ? Just kidding ? :confused:

[Mr.Neo]

I developed a AI system for my forums but I have not implimented it into my site yet... to much troube of installing it -_-

[megatest]

any news about what hacks will ba integrated in Vbulletin 3...

things that are hacks now for vb 2.2.6 and that will become
useless for vb3, I mean.

Thanx

[inetd]

Developers, tell please (I think, it will be interesting not only me) when you plan to release vBulletin 3 RC 1? I can not wait any more it. Do not give to die to true admirers vBulletin. I beg you!!!

[megatest]

I saw on a recent thread that they are planning to open
the beta board no later than in the start of september, then
collect some final advices and then will publicly give the first
available vbulletin 3 releases.

Like me, go on holidays to avoid a nervous breakdown ;)

[inetd]

oh no....
september
give me pistol and one bullet :( :( :(

[megatest]

they sayd "no later than September" for the beta forum opening.

It could be sooner.


But like they say all the time :

( copyright Jelsoft Team )

" BUT IT CAN BE LATER TOO " (c) (tm)




I will send you a double shotgun by pm if needed. ;)

[DirectPixel]

gimme a planet-destroyer death ray.:)

[JamesUS]

vB 3 RC 1 will not be in September. An RC and opening the beta forum are very different things and a fair amount of time needs to elapse between those two events.

[tubedogg]

What a lot of people may not understand is the difference between a beta and an RC. Some people use them interchangably. We do not. For example, if you took part in Microsoft's Windows XP Public Preview, you got a copy of beta 2, RC1, and RC2. Beta 2 was the first "public" beta, after which things were still being implemented, features being tuned, edges being sanded, etc. RC1 and RC2 were primarily about sanding edges and smoothing out rough spots.

With vB2:
- Alpha (summer '00 to Jan '01) was the development version. It was never publicly released. This is the stage vB3 is in now, closing in on a beta site opening for feedback purposes (not sure when this happened with vB2).
- Beta 1 (Jan to Feb '01)was a limited beta, available only to a small number of licensed owners. Features were still being actively added during this period.
- Betas 2-4, 4.1, and 5 (Feb to Apr '01) were public betas, available to any licensed owners. New features were still being added, and code cleanup and optimization were continued.
- RCs 1-3 (Apr to May '01) were again public, but they did not include new features (for the most part) and were mainly bug fix and feature rounding releases. RC3 was a security release with some bug fixes.

Something along those lines would be typical to see with vB3.

[Buddha]

by those timelines then, we should not expect a final version until sometime in the new year.

correct?

if not, then there's no sense me waiting anymore... might as well design my site with v2.26 and then just convert later on.
i've been waiting as i was under the impression that v3 would be out within the next few months (not just a beta, but a final version).

thank you for that information.
much appreciated.

[megatest]

Could be usefull if vbulletin people could say a date scale like :

probably a beta publicly available between
september and october...

then a RC1 by november or december....

This would cut stupid wonderings for people who believe
that they could use VB3 as their new board system or for
a new website with next business year (I mean : Start of
September)

Could be usefull... :)

[DirectPixel]

heh, I bought vB, thinking that vB3 will be out withing 4 months....

...and I'm still waiting.:p

[rawnet]

As developers, we all know the dangers of giving a timescale!! :)

Additionally, a confirmed feature set just gives ideas to competitors who could move quicker, but produce an inferior product.

We're in a difficult position waiting for vBulletin3. Currently working on revamping an existing site which will be relaunched to much national exposure and postal mailshots to around 15 million people.

And we're using vBulletin to power the forums.

Access to a Beta is obviously pretty important - we need to launch before vBulletin 3 is released, but our commercial development schedule is affected by vBulletin which is frustrating.

I don't know where I'm going with the post - anyway, it's all good - looking forward to the Beta coming out so we can start testing it on our platform and comparing to existing release.

All the best,

Ro0pss

[Freddie Bingham]

I don't expect vb3 to have as many issues with it that vb2 had during the beta period so I would like to think that it will have a shorter beta period. We are still going to need a couple months of it in beta before we can think about declaring it final, but to most, the time when they can download the beta is the important part. I would expect that to fall in 2002.

[rawnet]

Spot the deliberate date mistake in Freddie's Post.

You're clever guys but haven't mastered time travel yet!!

Ross

[megatest]

is it a copy & paste post from last year ? ;)

[Freddie Bingham]

Originally posted by rawnet
Spot the deliberate date mistake in Freddie's Post.

You're clever guys but haven't mastered time travel yet!!

Ross Just a typo, nothing intended by it.

[Mike Sullivan]

Originally posted by rawnet
You're clever guys but haven't mastered time travel yet!! *whistles innocently*

[inetd]

vBulletin - undoubtedly best forum. Developers vBulletin too it is undoubtedly the best. But why they do not think of us and so long let out vB 3?

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by inetd
vBulletin - undoubtedly best forum. Developers vBulletin too it is undoubtedly the best. But why they do not think of us and so long let out vB 3? You have to learn to wait. Rome wasn't built in a day.:mad:

[megatest]

Neither Jupiter. then. :)

I propose to convert rome to jupiter in the sentence.

"Jupiter was not build in a day."


Post Scriptum :
Jupiter is the code name for Vbulletin 3, if I remember ;)

[NetherChris]

I'm still trying to figure out what Mars is :)

[tubedogg]

Originally posted by NetherChris
I'm still trying to figure out what Mars is :) So are we!

j/k

[shiva]

- Completely revamped template system

I sincerely hope this can translated as:

"We made a horrible mistake with the present template system, and have chucked the entire thing out the window, and done up a completely new system that people can actually use."

Sorry, but day 4 of my attempt to understand this template system, and I am considering some rather unpleasant thoughts to the people who devised this system for theme designs.

Now I like this product, I also find this is a powerful and very complex piece of software, but over 100 templates per style? I printed out the guide that just explains what each template does, and that was 60 pages.

I think this is reflected by the amount of styles available for VB, or the lack of them compared to other forum software. It's very tough with the way it's set up, it's hard to track, and a pain having to jump from template to template. I'm sure it's pretty logical, but to my basic skills, it seems rather overly complex, and very hard to use. In other words, it will be a while before I am at the level of the handful of the top VB design guys that are here.

Needless to say, I am rather curious about what the template system overhaul actually means, and most importantly, some details would be nice, and appreicated.

[tubedogg]

You probably don't want to hear this but there are actually about 400 templates (per style if you have more than one style).

The revamp is of the template editing system, not of the templates themselves (though they are certainly underdoing changes, not yet sure how major, in preparation for a new default style) or how many there are.

If you are simply looking to change colors and images, that is all done via the Styles system (Admin CP > Styles > Modify).

[shiva]

Originally posted by tubedogg
You probably don't want to hear this but there are actually about 400 templates (per style if you have more than one style).

The revamp is of the template editing system, not of the templates themselves (though they are certainly underdoing changes, not yet sure how major, in preparation for a new default style) or how many there are.

If you are simply looking to change colors and images, that is all done via the Styles system (Admin CP > Styles > Modify).

I think from my previous post that I was talking more than changing colors and styles, I mentioned 100 because it appears that quite a few of the templates are codes I doubt anyone would change.

Neverless, I think if you just look at the concept of having multiple templates needed to control even the simplest theme/style, a amount of four hundred of them is a rather obscene number in my opinion.

I guess the only thing I can do is express my disappointment that I will still have to work, or at least attempt to, with the present system, I find it excessively bulky, complex and unwieldy compared to what I would like to do with it.

[DirectPixel]

Well, keep in mind that to radically change the appearance of your forum, you only need to change about a dozen of those templates.

The rest of the templates are there so that the user can control every single detailed aspect of what the script outputs.

This gives vBulletin the flexibility of being converted into something other than a forum, like a content manangement system, or a classifieds engine, or a personals engine, etc.

[Grover]

Originally posted by shiva

I think this is reflected by the amount of styles available for VB, or the lack of them compared to other forum software.
Agreed! I think you have a good point here. Sometimes it seems VB is written for the more 'professional' webdesigner/builder. Apart from the designer: this is also somewhat reflected in the userexperience of VBulletin. A lot of 'new' users on our website find VBulletin hard to learn in the beginning. And that NOT only because VBulletin is only available in the english language.......

I believe VBulletin can indeed use improvement on the user-experience level. NOT only for members of our forums....but also for the webmasters of it.

Grover.

[shiva]

Funny you mention that about CMS, very familar with CMS systems like nuke, xoops etc. I've actually have done free theme designs for them, all it is is one single php file that contains the code. That's for the header, footer, left block, (right block as well, but you can code that seperate) new header, article and master table content code.

Takes a hour to code it up, but I may note that the vast majority of the present 400 plus themes available for just PHP-Nuke are rather average, but really, if you know how to code a good basic design, it should be no problem in nuke. One file, all it is.

As for this, well, it's my first shot at this, so I don't know what does what, all it looks to me is a huge clump of files, that make no sense what so ever. I'm not a stupid man, but I feel like I need a rocket science degree to be able to use this thing properly.

And as a average designer, I was just stating that fact that maybe there was a simplier way to do it, rather than go through file after file, especially as I am not a codejunkie. Even the main display files don't actually display EVERYTHING in that one page, you have to jump to other files. You have to admit, the way it looks is rather daunting, and it's actually very tough to figure out what does what, because you end up losing track because there's so much of it.

Maybe, since there are a few here who do know this stuff, a simple guide maybe on all the areas you would need to add in design elements into a VB design? At the very least, a list of the main templates, and what they do from a graphics point of view would be nice.

As to the next version, well it's your guys project, I just use it. Maybe if the main display pages, like the forumhome, postbit, thread display pages were all complete as one coded page for each, without having to jump to other templates, that would be simplier for us code impared people to modify at least.

[inetd]

Agreed! I think you have a good point here. Sometimes it seems VB is written for the more 'professional' webdesigner/builder. Apart from the designer: this is also somewhat reflected in the userexperience of VBulletin. A lot of 'new' users on our website find VBulletin hard to learn in the beginning. And that NOT only because VBulletin is only available in the english language.......

I believe VBulletin can indeed use improvement on the user-experience level. NOT only for members of our forums....but also for the webmasters of it.YES! YES! YES!

[tubedogg]

Originally posted by shiva
As to the next version, well it's your guys project, I just use it. Maybe if the main display pages, like the forumhome, postbit, thread display pages were all complete as one coded page for each, without having to jump to other templates, that would be simplier for us code impared people to modify at least.To do something like that there is a trade-off, either
a) Put it all in one template and hardcode the
if ($user[allowpms]) {
$pmcode = "<img src...>";
} else {
$pmcode = "";in the PHP files, which makes it 100x harder not only to customize (because you are editing all sorts of PHP files) but to translate, or
b) Everything in the templates becomes static, that is (following the above example) the PM button is always shown in postbit no matter if the user has PMs turned on or not.

I personally like
c) Have it like it is now and have between 5 and 20 templates per page, sorted by name, easily recognizable with a printable guide that tells what each template does, and allows for any amount of dynamic generation necessary..
which does not allow for what you want, at least not in general, but in the end is much easier to customize & translate, and simply allows the system to be much more dynamic.

[shiva]

Originally posted by tubedogg

I personally like
c) Have it like it is now and have between 5 and 20 templates per page, sorted by name, easily recognizable with a printable guide that tells what each template does, and allows for any amount of dynamic generation necessary..
which does not allow for what you want, at least not in general, but in the end is much easier to customize & translate, and simply allows the system to be much more dynamic. [/B]

I guess you would like it the way it is, but do you understand how stupid it sounds when you say it's perfectly okay to have as many as 20 seperate template pages to define one page?

But if you don't feel like programing that, fine. As said before it's your product, I'm just a consumer with a suggestion. But then this isn't a consumer product either, I guess I got what I figured.

Thanks for your time

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by shiva


I guess you would like it the way it is, but do you understand how stupid it sounds when you say it's perfectly okay to have as many as 20 seperate template pages to define one page?

But if you don't feel like programing that, fine. As said before it's your product, I'm just a consumer with a suggestion. But then this isn't a consumer product either, I guess I got what I figured.

Thanks for your time *sigh*

To change the layout for your site, you will only have to edit the header and footer templates!

If you want to change how the posts show up, edit the postbit template. If you want to change how your main page looks, change the forumhome template!

There is no need to edit the 400 templates, and trust me -- I've done skins for nuke before, and this is dozens of times easier!

[shiva]

Thank you eiSecure, but I have already gone beyond that, my questions were more advanced than that, but I will ask someplace else, as this isn't the place for that.
I might just fix a couple things, and then just leave the theme design alone, and go do something else. Thanks anyway.

[Burns]

Originally posted by freddie
I don't expect vb3 to have as many issues with it that vb2 had during the beta period so I would like to think that it will have a shorter beta period. We are still going to need a couple months of it in beta before we can think about declaring it final, but to most, the time when they can download the beta is the important part. I would expect that to fall in 2002.
So we probably will not get even the first Beta before the end of 2002 ?
:( :( :(

[tubedogg]

Originally posted by Burns

So we probably will not get even the first Beta before the end of 2002 ?
:( :( :( Erm...how did you get that from what freddie said?
I would expect that to fall in 2002.
???

[Freddie Bingham]

I would like to tell you that you will probably have a beta to install in October but, then, you would then expect that which leads to people getting upset when it doesn't happen.

[DirectPixel]

Originally posted by freddie
I would like to tell you that you will probably have a beta to install in October but, then, you would then expect that which leads to people getting upset when it doesn't happen. *cough*

IF it doesn't happen...;)

[Burns]

Originally posted by freddie
I would like to tell you that you will probably have a beta to install in October but, then, you would then expect that which leads to people getting upset when it doesn't happen.
well... i only would like to see the most realistic estimation...
I can not find the thread anymore, but it has been said few months ago ( in this spring ),
vB3 comes in Q2
( can not remember what exactly release or beta ),
i think many ppl. still remeber this "Q2" ...
Has this estimation been made before the begin of the CMS project,
or some priorities have been changed ?

I'm not rich, but i would pay the second owned license,
if i could get the threaded ( whatever version 3 or not ) vB in September,
i could update my current board to...

[inetd]

Originally posted by Burns

well... i only would like to see the most realistic estimation...
I can not find the thread anymore, but it has been said few months ago ( in this spring ),
vB3 comes in Q2
( can not remember what exactly release or beta ),
i think many ppl. still remeber this "Q2" ...
Has this estimation been made before the begin of the CMS project,
or some priorities have been changed ?

I'm not rich, but i would pay the second owned license,
if i could get the threaded ( whatever version 3 or not ) vB in September,
i could update my current board to... Yes! I'm too buy second license for upgrade to vB3 and now read "beta in october"... :(

[Freddie Bingham]

We will open beta.jelsoft.com very soon and we just have to see where it goes from there. I don't have any real grasp on the time frame from having users hit beta.jelsoft.com hard and we fix bugs to deciding it is stable enough for you to use on your own forum. Well I know it is stable enough for beta usage as it stands but we just need to make sure. Just a little more patience, the end is in sight.

[Steve Machol]

Originally posted by Burns
I can not find the thread anymore, but it has been said few months ago ( in this spring ), vB3 comes in Q2Which is exactly why no one wants to make any more specific predictions.

[shiva]

sounds good enough for me. Would rather have a stable release and wait a bit longer than have a rushed release with a lot of bugs, and end up messing my board.

besides, I play a lot of blizzard games, they are well know for announcing games that end up 2 years late, though I'm pretty sure it won't happen here. :)

[TalonKarrde]

Originally posted by freddie
We will open beta.jelsoft.com very soon and we just have to see where it goes from there. I don't have any real grasp on the time frame from having users hit beta.jelsoft.com hard and we fix bugs to deciding it is stable enough for you to use on your own forum. Well I know it is stable enough for beta usage as it stands but we just need to make sure. Just a little more patience, the end is in sight.
Yeay! Very Soon. That means a couple of months, right?

[Freddie Bingham]

Originally posted by TalonKarrde

Yeay! Very Soon. That means a couple of months, right? Sooner than that.

[bigmattyh]

Originally posted by freddie
Freddie Bingham
vBulletin Developer - 6Didn't your signature say "vBulletin developer - 7" yesterday? Is this some sort of sly countdown? :)

[Buddha]

Originally posted by bigmattyh
Didn't your signature say "vBulletin developer - 7" yesterday? Is this some sort of sly countdown? :)

perhaps one of the other developers was off'ed due to his incompetence and smelliness.


it could happen.

[DirectPixel]

It's a countdown to the opening of beta.jelsoft.com.

[inetd]

Originally posted by eiSecure
It's a countdown to the opening of beta.jelsoft.com. REALLY? WOW!!!
I love vB developers :) :D ;):p

[leadZERO]

Originally posted by bigmattyh
Didn't your signature say "vBulletin developer - 7" yesterday? Is this some sort of sly countdown? :)

I attribute it to an off-by-one error that freddie must have discovered.

[DirectPixel]

Now it says 19. Why did it go up?

Because I know too much. The actual date is 6 days away.;)

[Freddie Bingham]

It won't be open in 6 days.

[ccd1]

Ah, there were delays. A bug or something.

[DirectPixel]

Okay, so it's up to 19 days again....

[ChanServ]

Originally posted by megatest
Read all the post, please.

- User ranks per usergroup
-

so does this mean it will come with the stars hack already?

[Scott MacVicar]

correct, it will come with the ability to specify an image and how many times it should be repeated, usergroup is applies to and the amount of posts required to qualify for it.

[ChanServ]

Originally posted by PPN
correct, it will come with the ability to specify an image and how many times it should be repeated, usergroup is applies to and the amount of posts required to qualify for it.

Awesome! I was concerned about reinstalling this hack on vb3, due to the fact that all the files will be changed.

and thank you for your answer =D

[Floris]

Originally posted by freddie
It won't be open in 6 days. I can wait untill monday :P

[Burns]

Hi!
May i ask... will be Moderation per usergroup possible without any hack in vB3 ?

Here is the thread about this vB2 hack, by FireFly
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36698&highlight=moderation

Burns

[Steve Machol]

Originally posted by Burns
Hi!
May i ask... will be Moderation per usergroup possible without any hack in vB3 ?Yes. :)

[Burns]

Originally posted by smachol
Yes. :)
good news, thanks :)

Sorry for asking again, but could you tell me, is there also an option for Admin to disable "flat" view in general,
so the user can not switch views ?

Also i have seen the vB3 screenshot from the post view,
and i really liked it,
but can you confirm that it is still looks like this old screenshot
( i think there was only one post view screen floating around ;) ) ?
( i mean not the design, but the post view in general,
that if you click on the post, only this post is displayed,
not the ubbthreads solution:
you click on the post in threaded view,
but you see not the post in it's own window,
but the whole thread in flat view, just scrolled down to where this post start in flat view... horrible :p )

[Steve Machol]

Originally posted by Burns
is there also an option for Admin to disable "flat" view in general, so the user can not switch views ?Not as such. You can set which view you want to appear as the default, then modify the templates to remove the ability to switch views.

Also i have seen the vB3 screenshot from the post view, and i really liked it, but can you confirm that it is still looks like this old screenshot If you mean the threaded view screen shot then yes, it still looks like that. However the style is not really finished yet and I don't know what the final version will look like.

[Burns]

Originally posted by smachol
Not as such. You can set which view you want to appear as the default, then modify the templates to remove the ability to switch views.
As long it will not be too difficult
( http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=257255&highlight=All+user+options+can+easily+be+disabled+ admin+by+editing+templates#post257255 )
it's still OK :)

If you mean the threaded view screen shot then yes, it still looks like that. However the style is not really finished yet and I don't know what the final version will look like.
I think there was even 2 of them, just can not find the first...
The second one ( i'm talking about ) is the one with
Chen's Post "Am I the only one who is logged out every visit?";
what i fear is the "hybrid" view, where you have
threaded outside(forum view), and flat inside(thread view, if you click on a post);
the screenshot if vB3 shows clear that it is NOT the hybrid view,
i just hope that it stay so...

[Freddie Bingham]

We will be taking suggestions, and making changes on the the threaded layout as we aren't sure just exactly how the majority of you (threaded well wishers) wish for it to function.

[heretic]

it would be nice if it were set to the user

[TalonKarrde]

Originally posted by shiva
Funny you mention that about CMS, very familar with CMS systems like nuke, xoops etc. I've actually have done free theme designs for them, all it is is one single php file that contains the code. That's for the header, footer, left block, (right block as well, but you can code that seperate) new header, article and master table content code.

Takes a hour to code it up, but I may note that the vast majority of the present 400 plus themes available for just PHP-Nuke are rather average, but really, if you know how to code a good basic design, it should be no problem in nuke. One file, all it is.

As for this, well, it's my first shot at this, so I don't know what does what, all it looks to me is a huge clump of files, that make no sense what so ever. I'm not a stupid man, but I feel like I need a rocket science degree to be able to use this thing properly.

And as a average designer, I was just stating that fact that maybe there was a simplier way to do it, rather than go through file after file, especially as I am not a codejunkie. Even the main display files don't actually display EVERYTHING in that one page, you have to jump to other files. You have to admit, the way it looks is rather daunting, and it's actually very tough to figure out what does what, because you end up losing track because there's so much of it.

Maybe, since there are a few here who do know this stuff, a simple guide maybe on all the areas you would need to add in design elements into a VB design? At the very least, a list of the main templates, and what they do from a graphics point of view would be nice.

As to the next version, well it's your guys project, I just use it. Maybe if the main display pages, like the forumhome, postbit, thread display pages were all complete as one coded page for each, without having to jump to other templates, that would be simplier for us code impared people to modify at least.

Well, to stick it to you, those ar PORTALS, not CMS. Portals are unimaginative do-it-for-you sites, doesn't matter if you make the theme or not.

There, I got it out of my system.


There are more templates for a reason. Customizing EVERY aspect of vB. You can almost literally do anything with it.

[Seifer]

I'm in no hurry for vB3, vB 2.2.6 works perfectly fine for my needs. But I am curious as to the benefits (if any) of a "threaded" view. I personally don't like the appearance, but if there was some benefit I might consider it.

[Floris]

Hi there vB team :)

I was wondering: "With vBulletin version 3.x, is it possible (and otherwise can it be) to restrickt access to the Admin Control Panel based on an IP. I.e enter a list of IP (ranges) to the config.php. In my situation, the Admins have a static IP address so this would be great. I think they can even get a permission denied to attempt to login to the ACP if their hosts to not match. And if in some situation my host does change, I can always upload a new config.php with FTP." :Just a thought. (Do it in config.php, because if it is in the database, it could get compromised. And a read only .php file behind a .htaccess/.htpasswd is much harder)

Btw; give me another hint like Freddie did. Only this time in hours!

[Steve Machol]

That is not included. However you can do exactly the same thing with htaccess.

http://www.javascriptkit.com/howto/htaccess5.shtml

[Floris]

Originally posted by smachol
That is not included. However you can do exactly the same thing with htaccess.

http://www.javascriptkit.com/howto/htaccess5.shtml
Just a suggestion ..

Thank you for the quick reply. I think I have to adjust .htaccess to look a bit more like:
order allow,deny
deny from all
allow from 1.2.3.4

(with ofcourse, 1.2.3.4 being my static 'internet' IP)

BTW, Can I just adjust the .htaccess file in the directory, when the server is controlled with Cpanel4.9 or will that 'screw' things up?

[Burns]

Originally posted by Seifer
I'm in no hurry for vB3, vB 2.2.6 works perfectly fine for my needs. But I am curious as to the benefits (if any) of a "threaded" view. I personally don't like the appearance, but if there was some benefit I might consider it.
OK, why threaded...

1. Selective Reading.
If you always read everything posted on the board,
sure the threaded view rather waste your time.
If you can/want read only 10% of threads the threaded view can be useful
to pick only the postings you want to read
Often the interesting posting is somewhere in the middle of thread,
interesting: poster's name + subject
1a. The whole thread structure may give you a hint what may be interesting to read:
many answers, positive comments in answers' subjects etc.

2. Reading answers to MY post !
Very important imo, if i really have no time,
but somehow i TAKE the time to read answers to my posts,
posting in a long thread becomes a nightmare,
some ppl. may not quote or even spell your name wrong,
so even search function isnt too usefull while looking for answers

3. Ignoring
Smilar to the 1. but still kinda different:
ok, there is an "ignore" feature, but i know may board
where admin would not even think to force ppl. to register to be able to post;
it's just up to the board, up to the community, up to the theme etc.
+ "ignore" has a lot disadvantages,
i would rather "deal with" trouble maker, then put him on ignore:
before you are sure he deserves to be put on ignore "the damage" is done already,
and so for EVERY forum user.
To put someone on ignore too fast can be not wise too
( may be he just had a bad day )
Now, with flat view you are FORCED at least to scroll over the most posts,
you would never have seen in threaded forum:
ignoring posts by name+subject is a great feature
( kinda "small"/"probe" ignore )
3b. Kinda the same as 1a.,answers with subjects
like "...boring..." give you a "hint"
( sure not by anyone but posters you respect )

4. *Bumping*
Very very VERY annoying feature where the most stupid thead comes to the top again and again.
Espacially while ppl. flame each other.
Sure you can disable the "bump" feature, but it's really more difficult the new posts in flat view,
while "bumping" disabled

5. Answer to... ?
Well... look, many ppl. are too lazy to quote, even me sometimes;
sometimes i just feel it senseless to quote while i answer to the last post.
Now, even if the poster who dont quote is fast,
someone can be still faster, which can cause problems.
It becomes much more important in moderated/
"partial moderated"(like guest are moderated) forums:
imagine someone post a thread how ami's kicked talib's @ss
Now someone post ( approvement req. ) just "ha ha ha" as answer
What he dont know is that someone posted ( approvement req. ) another answer before him
about victims among civil ppl. with many shocking details.
None of both did something wrong besides may be not quoting,
but it bacame a time bomb avaiting approvement.
Also as someone who was not directly involved in the discussion,
sometimes i ask myself "who the hell he answer to ?!!"
+ even if EVERYONE include a quote in the answer
it does increase traffic really !

6. Not exactly "fun" forums
Well... there are not just forums about forum software, computer games,
s*x, monty pythons and football
There are also spiritual forums, forums where ppl. discuss about meaning of life,
about thier problems ( ever heard about a.s.h. ? ),
forums where ppl. try to help each other, kinda therapy-forums etc.
For that kind of forum i would ALWAYS take the threaded form
Talking about thier problems ppl. who feel really bad usually preffer to have
an own place to express themselves; it gives also safety feeling:
whatever the stupid comment may come, at least it's not on the same site
directly below thier story
Also whoever want to write something meaningful ( not ordinary ),
may preffer to have an "own place" for his/her small essay.
I mean, the forums where ppl. actually take time,
not just "consume" the information like pizza.
( asap ! , " time is money " ! )
The threaded view gives you distance and considerateness.

Sure, flat view has its advantages too,
the "fun" factor, this thread would never be born without flat forum:
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?threadid=24626
But lets be honest, most time it's not fun but rather boring,
ppl. post "just to post" ( or up thier posts counter )
I think "the barrier" is at least a bit higher,
if everyone see your senseless answers in forum view ---> argh, again this spammer!
( should not admin ban him ? )
It's also kinda "not so fun" to do something senseless, silly while you are "alone"
on your own post site;
silly post that could be annoying but at least "10% fun" in flat view along woth other posts,
would look absolutely stupid and senseless in threaded view
( where everyone just say "argh, once again he made me open this stupid post --->
ignoring him from now" )

Burns