Why no discount for buying after leasing?

[JJR512]

I just checked into renewing my lease license. Seems I can renew it for $85, or upgrade to an owned license for $160.

That's not really renewing or upgrading, not the way I understand the words. To me, renewing, and especially upgrading, means doing it at a reduced cost. When you upgrade from Windows Me to Windows XP, do you pay the same amount as for a new, non-upgrade copy of WinXP? No.

My suggestion is to either call it like it is...which is that you're buying it again at full price...or better yet, give us a break. We already paid the full price once; you already got us as loyal customers, else we wouldn't be coming back at all. I'm thinking $50 or $60 to renew a leased license, and $125 to $150 to upgrade to an owned license. Does that not seem fair?

I'm not making a big issue out of this, I'm not saying vBulletin isn't worth it. Not trying to cause a big stir or say that all software should be free. I just think a little break for your loyal customers would be a nice touch, that's all. :)

[Craig Armstrong]

I don't know, it all seems fair to me. If you lease a license for a year and that year expires, you should have to pay the same price as you did before for another. And, of course, if you purchase the full license, it never expires and you only have to pay $30/year for access to the members area. Seems reasonable enough.

[Wayne Luke]

Microsoft also doesn't let you upgrade from your version to any new versions that were released in the following year for free.

They may release bug fixes and service releases but if Windows 2002 were released tomorrow you would need to pay $100 to upgrade from Windows XP.

[Craig Armstrong]

Originally posted by wluke
...if Windows 2002 were released tomorrow you would need to pay $100 to upgrade from Windows XP.

Umm, isn't Windows XP already version 2002? :confused: (I'm prolly wrong though :p)

[Wayne Luke]

Originally posted by wluke
Microsoft also doesn't let you upgrade from your version to any new versions that were released in the following year for free.

They may release bug fixes and service releases but if Windows 2002 were released tomorrow you would need to pay $100 to upgrade from Windows XP.

Might be... Who really knows with Microsoft's naming schemes. Just when they get us used to model years they have to go and change it.

The example still stands though... Or you could change it to:

If you bought Windows 2001 in May of 2001 and decided to upgrade to Windows XP this week, Microsoft wouldn't give you a free upgrade. They would make you pay the upgrade price.

However with us, if you purchase vBulletin 2.X today and decide to upgrade to vBulletin 3.0 in January 2003, you get to... For Free.

[JJR512]

I never said that Microsoft gave free upgrades, or that I wanted the upgrades here to be free. You're confusing what kind of upgrade I'm talking about. I'm not talking about upgrading the software; I'm talking about upgrading the license.

And I don't know if they still do it, but Microsoft did used to give away free upgrades. Not within a year, but within a month; if you purchased one of their major softwares (like Windows or Office) and a new version came out within a month, you could get the new version for free, by sending them a copy of your receipt.

[Freddie Bingham]

You do have a month to upgrade your leased license to an owned license for another $85.00.

[JJR512]

Really? I didn't see that anywhere.
We currently offer two renewal options for leased license owners:

Upgrade leased license to owned license ($160)
If you would like to convert this license to an "owned license", please click here and select "Upgrade" from the order form. This option will allow you to run your license on your web site for an unlimited time, and you'll also have access to software updates for one year (from the current license expiry date). After this period, you can choose to renew your access to your members area for $30 per year.

Renew leased license for one year ($85)
If you would like to renew this leased license for one year (starting from the current expiry date), please click here and select "Renew" from the order form. This option will allow you to run the vBulletin license on your site for one year from the current expiry date. After this period, you will be required to either purchase another license renewal in order to continue using the software on your web site.
But since you say that, I'll hold you to it. :)

[nuno]

Originally posted by JJR512
....... but Microsoft did used to give away free upgrades. .......

whoa
i'm shocked :eek:

[Freddie Bingham]

Actually it is $75 and it isn't mentioned anywhere other than in the email you are sent after purchasing a leased license.

[JJR512]

OK, fortunately I still have that (on another computer) so I'll go dig that up. Now just for clarification, is that 30 days before or after the lease license expires? In other words...my license expires Feb. 28. Do I need to do it before then to get the $75 deal, or do I have until 30 days after that to still be able to do it?

[NYI Fan]

While we're on the subject, do I have to wait until my lease expires (July) to go purchase?

30 days after I bought vB I still wasnt sure, and once that expired I thought since I had already blown the 30 day reduced upgrade, I may as well wait until my year was up. But i KNOW i want to do this now- would my upgrade price be prorated for the time left on my lease?

One last question, will I get a reminder notice, or do I need to "Task List" it in the ol' Franklin Planner? (dont mind me, I went to a Franklin refresher class today, so I'm all brainwashed again ;) )

TIA!

[eva2000]

Originally posted by JJR512
OK, fortunately I still have that (on another computer) so I'll go dig that up. Now just for clarification, is that 30 days before or after the lease license expires? In other words...my license expires Feb. 28. Do I need to do it before then to get the $75 deal, or do I have until 30 days after that to still be able to do it? its 30 days after you first purchase your leased license

[Freddie Bingham]

Hmm the $75 upgrade is for the first 30 days following the purchase of your leased license. After that there are no discounts.

[tubedogg]

To answer all the questions simply, at the current time, there is only one discount, and that is the following:
If, within 30 days of purchasing a leased license, you wish to upgrade it to an owned license, you can do so for $85 (pretty sure it's $85). After that discount runs out you can upgrade to an owned license at any time but it is $160.

To put things in perspective here, if you purchase a leased license, you are paying $85 to run the software for one year. OK? From there, you can pay another $85 to run it for another year. OK? Now, since the lease you paid for runs out after one year, why should there be a discount for buying a new license, when that is actually what you are doing?
Think of it this way - you go to the store and buy a quart of milk. Tommorrow you go back and buy a half-gallon of milk (2 quarts). Should you get a discount on the half-gallon because you bought a quart the day before? It's the same idea - you have drank the quart of milk (used the leased license for its' entire 1 year term), so why should you get a discount for buying a half-gallon of milk (buying an owned license)? Does that make more sense?

[tubedogg]

Originally posted by JJR512
That's not really renewing or upgrading, not the way I understand the words. To me, renewing, and especially upgrading, means doing it at a reduced cost. When you upgrade from Windows Me to Windows XP, do you pay the same amount as for a new, non-upgrade copy of WinXP? No.I thought you weren't talking about upgrading the software. ;) Seriously though, if you lease a car for three years, they don't give you a discount at the end of the three years towards leasing another car. See also my milk analogy above. I can't really think of any times when renewing something is cheaper than the first time. Blockbuster charges you the same amount if you rent a movie for 5 days and then go back and rerent it for another 5.

As to upgrading, that is somewhat misleading on our part. It is upgrading in terms of it being a better license, but since your leased license has run out (or is about to), you can't run the software anymore anyway, so in those terms you are not upgrading, you are purchasing a new license.
$150 to upgrade to an owned license.You want me to send you $10? ;)

[TheHideoutGuy]

Originally posted by tubedogg
I thought you weren't talking about upgrading the software. ;) Seriously though, if you lease a car for three years, they don't give you a discount at the end of the three years towards leasing another car. See also my milk analogy above. I can't really think of any times when renewing something is cheaper than the first time. Blockbuster charges you the same amount if you rent a movie for 5 days and then go back and rerent it for another 5.


Actually tubedogg you are not entirely correct on your auto lease analogy... When you lease a car for 3 years you have at the end of the lease the option to buy that car at the current market value (usually pre-determined at the start of the lease) and not at the original MSRP.

So if you want to compare leasing vB to leasing a vehicle then after our 1 year software lease is over we should be entitled to purchase the license but not for the $160 MSRP. See my point?

Technically you are not leasing vB as any lease agreement I've ever been in be it for vehicles or computer equipment there has always been some kind of buyout option at the end of the lease. vB is the first I've seen where that is not true.

It's a software rental, not a lease... Let's call it what it is!

Cheers!

[tubedogg]

You're right on the car, if you are to buy it after. However my analogy still stands if you renew your lease, and my milk/Blockbuster analogies stand regardless. :p ;)

[JJR512]

Your milk and Blockbuster analogies do not still stand because they were never valid to begin with.

Milk is a consumable item. When you go to the store to buy more milk, you are not paying for the right to continue to own the milk you already bough. You are buying new milk, milk that is not the same as the milk you already bought.

Blockbuster may not offer a discount on a repeat rental, but they do offer a discount on upgrading from a rental to an ownership. Blockbuster also sells movies, the same discs and tapes that they rent out, and to buy one of them is cheaper than buying a new copy of the same title at Best Buy.

You're right, I wasn't talking about upgrading the software. I was talking about upgrading the license. When I was talking about upgrading from WinMe to WinXP, again, I wasn't talking about upgrading the software, but upgrading the license. Call up Microsoft right now and ask to talk to someone about licensing issues. They will gladly tell you that you NEVER own Microsoft software; all you ever own is a license to use it.

Sure, I'd like you to send me $10. I'm always happy to take any money anyone ever wishes to send me. Please mail it to: Justin J. Rebbert, 7911 Well Water Way, Elkridge, MD, 21075 (USA).

[tubedogg]

Originally posted by JJR512
Milk is a consumable item. When you go to the store to buy more milk, you are not paying for the right to continue to own the milk you already bough. You are buying new milk, milk that is not the same as the milk you already bought.A one year lease is also a consumable - at the end of the year, there is nothing left to use (because it is no longer a valid license). If you purchase an owned license at the end of the year, you are purchasing a new license, there is no upgrade. Again I think our use of that term is slightly misleading.

Blockbuster may not offer a discount on a repeat rental, but they do offer a discount on upgrading from a rental to an ownership.If you want to get absolutely technical, then yes you're right. However you don't need to be upgrading from a rental to get the discount in that case.Blockbuster also sells movies, the same discs and tapes that they rent out, and to buy one of them is cheaper than buying a new copy of the same title at Best Buy.You are not buying the same product - you get a new copy at Best Buy whereas you are buying a used copy at Blockbuster. Buying a used license off somebody is cheaper here too. :)

Call up Microsoft right now and ask to talk to someone about licensing issues. They will gladly tell you that you NEVER own Microsoft software; all you ever own is a license to use it.The same with vBulletin. I didn't know we where arguing about that? :)

Sure, I'd like you to send me $10.My point was is a $10 discount really that big a deal? You suggested $150 for a loyalty-based upgrade to an owned license, when a full owned license is $160.

[TheHideoutGuy]

Originally posted by tubedogg
You're right on the car, if you are to buy it after. However my analogy still stands if you renew your lease, and my milk/Blockbuster analogies stand regardless. :p ;)

Hey tube, I always though that liquids were "rented", especially the alchoholic variety! ;)

I leased vB the first year to see if I liked it and could use it.. Now that I know I can, when renewal time comes I will probably convert to an owned license. Now if Jelsoft wants to work out a deal involving chat rooms and vB I would be willing to listen! :D

Besides... Who ever buys their vehicle at the end of the lease?? No way! Time for something new!

[JJR512]

Yes, tubedogg, even a $10 discount would be something. As I originally said, I'm not making a big deal out of this. I'm not asking for it for free, I'm not saying it should be half off. Even just 10% off would be nice.

In regards to the milk vs. a license, the difference is that with milk, you buy the product and you use it, and when you use it, the product is gone. With software, you do not buy the product, you buy a license to use the product, and when the license is gone (when it expires), you still have the product, and the product itself is still usable. You just don't have a legal right to continue to use it.

Look, I'm not saying that vBulletin isn't worth its current prices. I will be paying for it again; I'm not saying that I'm ditching vBulletin because there is no price break for current loyal customers. I just thought it would have been a nice little gesture for there to be some kind of discount, even just a small one. That's all. You can agree or disagree all you want over whether there SHOULD be one. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it would be NICE if there WAS one, and if you disagree that it would nice to get a discount, then you need to go get your head examined. :)

[ja5es]

Originally posted by Craig Armstrong
I don't know, it all seems fair to me. If you lease a license for a year and that year expires, you should have to pay the same price as you did before for another. And, of course, if you purchase the full license, it never expires and you only have to pay $30/year for access to the members area. Seems reasonable enough. Yeah, good point. You don't get discounts when your subscription to a magazine runs out.

[Scott MacVicar]

I was thinking along of the lines of trying to encourage people to go from a leased liscence to an owned liscence at the end of their term would have been a good idea. Yes I'll be renewing mine when it comes around to it but even a $10 discount for those buying a owned liscence from a leased liscence would be worth it.

[freehtml]

Originally posted by PPN
I was thinking along of the lines of trying to encourage people to go from a leased liscence to an owned liscence at the end of their term would have been a good idea. Yes I'll be renewing mine when it comes around to it but even a $10 discount for those buying a owned liscence from a leased liscence would be worth it.

I agreed, my leased license ends in Nov 2002, and I had already decided to purchased the own license... Any discount will be great.

[NYI Fan]

Lemme start by saying that no matter what, come July, I will be buying a full purchased license. vB has made me extremely happy, and I will continue to use it. The software alone is amazing but the support just pushes it over the edge!

That said, if we are are going on the leased car comparison route, you CAN buy out of your lease early for a reduced rate (at least I have that option in my lease) Thats all I was really talking about. Or better yet, instead of 30 days to decide if you like it enouhg to upgrade from leased to owned, how about an extension to 60 or ideally 90 days? That way you can see not only how much you like the software, but how well it fits into your hosting options etc... Had the time frame been 90 days, I would have converted immediately no questions asked.

And since no one answered me before, I still need to know if I will get a reminder before my lease is up, or if I need to mark it on a calendar somewhere ;)

[Steve Machol]

Originally posted by NYI Fan
And since no one answered me before, I still need to know if I will get a reminder before my lease is up, or if I need to mark it on a calendar somewhere ;) I got an email notice about three weeks before one of my licenses was up. I don't know if this works for leases too, but I suspect it does. It would be a good thing to mark it on the calendar anyway.

[NYI Fan]

Thanks Steve, i added it in for mid june, about 3 weeks before mine expires :)