Integrated CHAT and INSTANT MESSASING

[Grover]

Hi,

The visitors of our website would VERY much like to see a chat-functionality on our website. Sorry for being a bit impatient...but I thought I'd start a poll to see how many people are waiting for this in a future version also.

I think there is a very high demand for the following 2 chat-functions:


1. Integrated CHAT.
- A CHAT is a room where you forum-members can logon to, so they can chat with all the other forum-members who are in the chat at that moment. The CHAT function HAS to have the ability to choose a chat-room/channel. For example....we run a website for people who suffer from a hairdisease like alopecia, chemo, trichotillomania, etc. We would like to have a chatfunction where you could choose a room/channel like 'alopecia' or 'chemo', so you can talk to people who suffer from the same disease.

2. Integrated INSTANT MESSAGING.
- Not everyone uses MSNM or ICQ, not everyone wishes to give away their MSNM or ICQ profile to our members, because privacy/anonymousity is VERY important to our members. We just NEED an integrated one in VBulletin! How many times have I wished that I could instantly contact a member of our forum, when I saw that he/she was online on our VBulletin-board! Many, many, many times!

We are dying for those 2 things in Vbulletin! We can't be the only one?

Grover.

(also posted on VBulletin.org.....sorry I'm just DYING for an add-on like this!)

--> PS: with an integrated chat I mean a chat where ONLY forum-members have access. I do NOT specifically mean that it has to be integrated TIGHT with VBulletin! I hope it can be provided as an add-on module (where people have to pay separately for, for instance).

[GameCrash]

Chat: There's a beta on vBulletin.org

Instand Messaging: I don't think there's a better way than the PMs...

[MattR]

I said "NO"; there are *much* better chat programs out there than anything vB could come up with (not saying anything about their programming skills but they're forced to work with the least common denominator, e.g. PHP based text chat which sucks compaired to java chat). DigiChat is pretty cheap and is really, really easy to integrate into vB if you know even a little bit of PHP.

Instant messaging would also have to be some sort of a PHP text hack which won't be very nice to implement (auto refresh every 1 second? could be painful on server load) without some sort of Java.

Why have vB reinvent the wheel when there are great alternatives out there.

[Hooper]

I really like Volano Chat. You must have root access and a dedicated server to set it up though. You can hack Jpilot into vBulletin with ease as well as a couple less expensive alternatives. I think Private Messaging is better for a forum software also. With being able to add your IM service to vBulletin so others can contact you this way, I see no need at all for the above mentioned and voted no also. I do agree with MattR about the PHP based chat proggies vs. a JavaChat. Php chat just isn't the same.

[eva2000]

personally i prefer to keep chat and message boards separate :)

probably due to the name of my forum's domain :D

[samtha25]

What people seem to want is a total Web site builder in one package. I understand that, but I'd only like to see "integrated" things like this if it were trivially easy to not have them and didn't require editing out things in templates.

[Hooper]

Originally posted by samtha25
What people seem to want is a total Web site builder in one package. I understand that, but I'd only like to see "integrated" things like this if it were trivially easy to not have them and didn't require editing out things in templates.

I cannot speak much of integrated software. I don't know a whole lot about it and work at integration on my site so I "Know" how things work. I would hope that integrated software, you know the "One package fits all sizes", works better than integrated hardware. :D. One thing shoots craps you replace the whole board. :(

The only thing I support for integration with vBulletin that it doesn't currently have is a CMS! And from what I hear, vB3.0 will have it. Now that is what I call a good integration idea.

And speaking on the subject, please put me on alpha/beta test list when this thing gets a rolling. I would love to test this until it hits the release stage.

[TheHideoutGuy]

I'd like to see the 2 kept seperate! Now what might be a good idea is some collaboration between Jelsoft and 1 or 2 chat vendors to further aid in tighter integration. DigiChat integrates quite nicely, right down to the buddy list and I will second the thumbs-up for DigiChat.

There are also some java based IM applets for web sites too, but I think for most people PM should be sufficient.

[Grover]

Originally posted by MattR I said "NO"; there are *much* better chat programs out there than anything vB could come up....

Why have vB reinvent the wheel when there are great alternatives out there. Hi MattR,

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but with an integrated chat I DO NOT mean that it has to be written by Jelsoft themselves!
With an integrated chat I mean a module (a separate add-on module if you want) that integrates with VBulletin at the members-level. So, that you HAVE to be a member of VBulletin to get access to the chat. Our visitors would very much like to chat with each other on a private chat-board. With private, I mean: ONLY members of our VB board get access to it. We have a website for people who suffer from hair-related diseases. A lot of our members know eachother (Holland is a small country......) and they want to be able to CHAT with eachother through the board.


Originally posted by TheHideoutGuy I'd like to see the 2 kept seperate! Now what might be a good idea is some collaboration between Jelsoft and 1 or 2 chat vendors to further aid in tighter integration. Yes, like I said before.....I prefer an add-on module (seperate that is...) which integrates with VBulletin so that ONLY members get access. I would indeed be a great idea if Jelsoft could collaborate with another vendor. I mean....there's a hack available for JPilot integration. Although it isn't a collaboration....it works the way I want. The only thing is, that JPilot is an IRC-client. So people can access the chat-channel through another IRC-client and therefor use the channel EVEN if they are NOT a member of our VB! :(


Originally posted by Hooper....With being able to add your IM service to vBulletin so others can contact you this way, I see no need at all for the above mentioned and voted no also....Hooper, I realize that the need for privacy on our website is bigger than on other sites. Therefore people are not keen on providing their ICQ-number/MSNM-profile to the other members. That's the reason why we would like an integrated chat, so ONLY our members get access to the chat and they do NOT have to use their 'public' ICQ or MSNM.


Originally posted by samtha25What people seem to want is a total Web site builder in one package. I understand that, but I'd only like to see "integrated" things like this if it were trivially easy to not have them and didn't require editing out things in templates.Yes, I agree. That's the reason why I would like it to be an add-on!

I hope it's more clear now what I mean exactly by an integrated chat. I also understand that the subject of our website (patients who suffer from alopecia, chemo, ttm) brings up a strong need for a CHAT-functionality that offers member-integration. Privacy is KEY for us. The need for privacy on a forum like ours is big.....I understand that there are a lot of other forums outthere where the privacy-issue is less important.

Still, I'll keep hoping that Jelsoft will provide some sort of chat-integration (only members get access) in the future. I'm still convinced that a lot of users of VBulletin are happy to use such an add-on. (and are happy to pay the extra money for buying a seperate add-on module).

I'll keep my fingers crossed. We really need it.

Thanx for al your replies.

Grover.

[MattR]

I see where you're coming from now.. I think it wouldn't be too much trouble to include hacks which integrate chat into vB (like vBDigiChat which basically logs the users in under their own name with their profile and such).

[Grover]

Currently (22 dec. 2001 09:55 AM) on:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33312

We have the following votes:

3 Yes, an integrated CHAT function!
0 Yes, an integrated INSTANT MESSASING function!
8 Yes, both please!
2 No

Total: 13 votes

So, that's 2 against and 11 positive votes!! (somehow a bit different from the vbulletin.com votes).

Grover.

[Hooper]

It's most likely not going to happen. If vBulletin does this it would shock me. Fact is, vBulletin is a forum and a chat program is almost a competitor. I'm sure the org will have many more yes votes than you will see here, but that is what they are there for, to find hacks.

There is no reason why you cannot hack a chat into vBulletin. I had no problems. But to incorporate an integrated chat into vBulltin is something that if ever done would most likely be on the back burner. Here is why:

1) Not everyone will want it or need it. In fact, most won't.
2) Chat integration is easily accomplished by a simple hack and template include.
3) Chat programs doesn't promote vBulletin. In fact, could take away from vBulletin sales.
4) There are many other much more needed and wanted additions to vBulletin that are planned or in the works.
5) Most will want "their" chat to be integrated and Jelsoft would have to see to it that "All" chat proggies would work with the integration.
6) The code gets to bloated and many of us would have to find alternative software. *Note: could possibly have to infopop it again.

Way to much time for something not needed whatsoever. It would have to be able to be disabled for the majority of us.
If they do this it must work with my favorite chat also which is known to take up huge resources on its own and cannot be ran on a virtual server.

Integration of chat would cause more problems than it did good.
Grover, If you ask in the vBull.org forum then you are asking for a chat hack. Not for vBulletin to include this in a future release. You will obviously be doing better with a poll in a hack forum. Maybe someone can hack what it is that you want. Wouldn't take much.

* Wouldn't happen in a million years.

[Grover]

Hi Hooper,

Well....you are very strict in your answer I must say.

Originally posted by Hooper
It's most likely not going to happen. If vBulletin does this it would shock me. Fact is, vBulletin is a forum and a chat program is almost a competitor. I'm sure the org will have many more yes votes than you will see here, but that is what they are there for, to find hacks.
I'm very sorry, but I don not see how a chat function is a competitor for a forum. Ok, both functions give you the ability to 'chat'. A chat-function gives you the ability to talk to people in real-time, but only to those people who are on the chat at that specific time. A VB forum gives you the ability to talk to people any time you want AND you can reach ALL the people you want, not just the people who are online at the same time. Well.....the benefits of a forum are very well known I guess.

There is no reason why you cannot hack a chat into vBulletin. I had no problems. But to incorporate an integrated chat into vBulltin is something that if ever done would most likely be on the back burner. Here is why:
1) Not everyone will want it or need it. In fact, most won't.
?? Most won't?? I mean....look at the poll!! 18 positive votes..... 12 negative ones. I guess that means that more people DO want it, or am I missing something here?

2) Chat integration is easily accomplished by a simple hack and template include.
Yes, it is. There are hacks available for JPilot for instance. But, like I said before....I would like it to become an official add-on for Vbulletin.

3) Chat programs doesn't promote vBulletin. In fact, could take away from vBulletin sales.
?? Why? My view is, that it will be a very good addition to VBulletin! How can it take away the sales of VBulletin if this chat-module is provided as an add-on TO THE PRODUCT ITSELF!? It will be only available as an add-on and NOT as a stand-alone module, so I do not see how it could take away the sales of VBulletin at all. No, it would definitely boost up the sales of the brillant forum-software.

4) There are many other much more needed and wanted additions to vBulletin that are planned or in the works.
? I don't get your point (again). Ofcourse there a other additions that we, the customers of VBulletin, would love to have. But a chat add-on is just one of those additions. Just search vbulletin.com and you will find a lot of requests about a chat-function.

5) Most will want "their" chat to be integrated and Jelsoft would have to see to it that "All" chat proggies would work with the integration.
? ALL chat proggies? I'm so sorry, but I do not see what you mean (again). Jelsoft is very capable of choosing the option/chatmodule that they think would be the best choice. You honestly don't think that they will integrate ALL the available chatmodules out there? If they choose to provide such an add-on it will be just one. Ofcourse.

6) The code gets to bloated and many of us would have to find alternative software. *Note: could possibly have to infopop it again.

?? Like I said so many times before......the best thing to do would be to provide it as an optional add-on module. People would pay extra for the module. People who do not need this module (most of us, according to your opinion), don't have to take it and can use VBulletin just the way they always did.

Way to much time for something not needed whatsoever. It would have to be able to be disabled for the majority of us.
Possible. Or maybe not. The thing is....if it is provided as an optional add-on, no-one has to disable or enable it! You just buy the add-on or you don't.

If they do this it must work with my favorite chat also which is known to take up huge resources on its own and cannot be ran on a virtual server.
Well....which such demands ('it has to work with my favorite chat...') you can count on it that you will not get what you want. I don't care which module they choose (IF it is going to happen anyway, that is.....just hoping), I just want to have the ability to chat on my VBulletin forum. Jelsoft is perfectly capable of making the right decision. And if this decision is even NOT to provide ANY chat-capabilities....than I have to live with that and make use of an available hack.

Integration of chat would cause more problems than it did good.
?? I haven't read ANY arguments from you to convince me that you are right. I'm sorry.

* Wouldn't happen in a million years.
? Hmmm.....well...... i'd like to keep a bit of a more positive attutide, if you don't mind. Look at http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15169 for example.

You can read the following message there....posted by Fred (VBulletin developer):


- - - - - -
Some type of chat or work to integrate an existing chat is on the long-term todo list (not v2.1).
- - - - - -

I feel and still feel that some sort of chat-capability WILL be a beautiful addition to the VBulletin Instant Community system.

~Grover.

[Hooper]

Best wishes,

I will admit Grover, most of what we see in vBulleting today is because of the fans and users. The developers work hard to see that we get what we want in a forum package and they do very well. I admire your persistance and who knows, maybe one day there will be some sort of vBulletin "Add-Ons" as you call it. The only Add-ons that I know of at the present is hacks. But as long as the chat part of vBulletin can be either an add-on that you don't have to have as a part of your software, or a function that can be disabled, then who knows. I have also asked for things for vBulletin and they have added them. One thing I really wanted was a search within each of the templates in the CP. It is now there. The crew definitely listens to the voices of its users and this is why I admire Jelsoft as I do. So, keep poking at it. I will say that I did misunderstand you. I thought, because there are no add-ons, that you were talking of adding this to the core of vBulletin. Sorry about that. Maybe one day they will create an add-on. I don't think its a good idea at all for an inclusion into the core of vB, but for those who wish for vBulletin add-ons that can be purchased seperately.....KEEP TRYING! ;)

In a way your idea about vBulettin add-ons is logical. It will help keep costs down for those who don't wish to have that particluar add-on and allows an opening for new marketing. It might be nice to have a core as we have it now with the option to purchase different components for specific purposes. Good marketing strategy anyhow. I have a online store purchasing program that was sold this way. A core, and specific add-ons for individual purposes. It obviously adds up to bigger bucks for the writers, yet allows for more of a streamlined approach.

One question I would have for you is this. Why won't you just buy the chat proggie you want and do a simple hack for including it? There are many who have included chat proggies such as DigiChat.

Secondly, What about the different chat proggies? You mentioned that it would be up to Jelsoft to choose the Chat proggie to include. Is that fair? I mean, In my own personal opinion, Volano Chat is the best. Some prefer DigiChat and others yet have other preferences. VolanoChat as I mentioned cannot even be ran on virtual servers because of the needed root access. It is also a resource hog and no host would let you run it for no extended length of time anyhow. DigiChat from what I understand will get you thrown off of virtual servers within hours because of the resource usage. Would Jelsoft write Add-Ons with the intentions that it would be for use with dedicated servers only? I have seen server shut down for using PHP and cgi chat proggies. You know, the refresh every second or so...

Just wondering what your answers to the above delimas might be? You have to understand that writing an add-on takes time to write and it would have to be something most could at the least use. Well, many are on virtual servers.

Btw, The "* Wouldn't happen in a million years" was an asterik statement to the above infopop comment. Maybe I should have had a red asterik. :p

[klisis]

It is now as below

8 Yes, an integrated CHAT function!
3 Yes, an integrated INSTANT MESSASING function!
7 Yes, both please!
14 No

Total: 32 votes

Originally posted by Grover
Currently (22 dec. 2001 09:55 AM) on:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33312

We have the following votes:

3 Yes, an integrated CHAT function!
0 Yes, an integrated INSTANT MESSASING function!
8 Yes, both please!
2 No

Total: 13 votes

So, that's 2 against and 11 positive votes!! (somehow a bit different from the vbulletin.com votes).

Grover.

[Grover]

Hi Hooper,

Thank you for your kind posting.

Originally posted by Hooper
Best wishes,

I will admit Grover, most of what we see in vBulleting today is because of the fans and users. The developers work hard to see that we get what we want in a forum package and they do very well. Yes, I totally agree. That's the MAIN reason (apart from the product itself) why I like VBulletin so much: the support is very, very good!

I admire your persistance....

Thanks! This is known to be one of my qualities.... ;)

... So, keep poking at it. I will say that I did misunderstand you. I thought, because there are no add-ons, that you were talking of adding this to the core of vBulletin. Sorry about that. Maybe one day they will create an add-on. I don't think its a good idea at all for an inclusion into the core of vB, but for those who wish for vBulletin add-ons that can be purchased seperately.....KEEP TRYING! ;)
Ok, thanx!! Indeed.....i'm with you when you say that it is not an good idea to include it in the core; that's what I meant with an add-on in the first place. Yes....some people didn't really understand what I meant exactly. Maybe that's because english is NOT my mother-language? I live in the Netherlands.....Maybe I should have expressed myself clearer.

In a way your idea about vBulettin add-ons is logical. It will help keep costs down for those who don't wish to have that particluar add-on and allows an opening for new marketing.
Exactly!! You've read my mind! ;)

It might be nice to have a core as we have it now with the option to purchase different components for specific purposes. Good marketing strategy anyhow. I have a online store purchasing program that was sold this way. A core, and specific add-ons for individual purposes. It obviously adds up to bigger bucks for the writers, yet allows for more of a streamlined approach. Yes....well there you go.

One question I would have for you is this. Why won't you just buy the chat proggie you want and do a simple hack for including it? There are many who have included chat proggies such as DigiChat. Because I think a chat-add on would be a KEY function/add-on to the VBulletin system. I would like it to be fully supported by Jelsoft. You know....hacks are not supported in any way by the VB developers.

Secondly, What about the different chat proggies? You mentioned that it would be up to Jelsoft to choose the Chat proggie to include. Is that fair? Yes! :D

I mean, In my own personal opinion, Volano Chat is the best. Some prefer DigiChat and others yet have other preferences. VolanoChat as I mentioned cannot even be ran on virtual servers because of the needed root access. It is also a resource hog and no host would let you run it for no extended length of time anyhow. DigiChat from what I understand will get you thrown off of virtual servers within hours because of the resource usage. Would Jelsoft write Add-Ons with the intentions that it would be for use with dedicated servers only? I have seen server shut down for using PHP and cgi chat proggies. You know, the refresh every second or so...
They will have to choose the BEST possible solution. Ofcourse it has to be able to run on a virtual server. Maybe an IRC client is the best sollution after all (if they can block visitors from outside, that is)

....and it would have to be something most could at the least use. Well, many are on virtual servers..... I Agree.

Btw, The "* Wouldn't happen in a million years" was an asterik statement to the above infopop comment. Maybe I should have had a red asterik. :p I am sorry, I misunderstood you at that point, maybe I should have read a little bit better!

Thank you for explaining your opinion in this clear way. (I can learn something from it I guess!)

Grover, The Netherlands.

[klisis]

Personally, I want Jelsoft to consentrate on the forum software only. That way, John and James can keep the quality of Vbulletin.

Jack of trades software isn't good. I think some know that. And I believe there should be hacks to integrate Chat and so on. I don't want to expect too much form Jelsoft with only US$ 180.

So, my best thought is build hacks to intergrate with existing chats.

As for instant messaging, I think the current PM system does the job.

My 0.02 won (FYI , Won is the value of Korean money).

[Hooper]

Originally posted by klisis
I don't want to expect too much form Jelsoft with only US$ 180.


Did it go up 20 bucks?

[klisis]

oh yeah, it's $160.

Originally posted by Hooper


Did it go up 20 bucks?

[Grover]

Hi,

These are the current (Jan. 3th 2002 10:40 AM) votes on the poll:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
VBULLETIN.COM

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35631

11 Yes, an integrated CHAT function!
3 Yes, an integrated INSTANT MESSASING function!
10 Yes, both please!
14 No

38 Total votes

24 positive and 14 negative votes.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
VBULLETIN.ORG

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33312

03 Yes, an integrated CHAT function!
0 Yes, an integrated INSTANT MESSASING function!
10 Yes, both please!
03 No

16 Total votes

13 positive and 3 negative votes.

Maybe it's a good idea to close the poll at some specific moment -soon-, so we can evaluate the votes.

~Grover.

[Grover]

Hi,

These are the current (Jan. 20th 2002 01:26 AM) votes on the poll:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
VBULLETIN.COM

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35631

16 Yes, an integrated CHAT function!
05 Yes, an integrated INSTANT MESSASING function!
15 Yes, both please!
16 No

52 Total votes

36 positive and 16 negative votes.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
VBULLETIN.ORG

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33312

06 Yes, an integrated CHAT function!
03 Yes, an integrated INSTANT MESSASING function!
14 Yes, both please!
03 No

26 Total votes

23 positive and 3 negative votes.

I would like to close this poll on 01/02/02 so we can evaluate this poll at some time.

~Grover.

[TheBear]

Personally I think it would be a bad idea for jelsoft to create a chat for vBulletin. Just look at what is happening with DigiChat. they have come out with their own forum software (not even using it themselves) and now basically refuse to help anyone with integrating their chat with any other forum software.

I currently own DigiChat but am investigating dumping it due to the lack of support and the non-existant upgrades promised with the forced seervice contract.

As to Jelsoft picking the "best" chat. Best for who?

There is a chat product called ChatBlazer that I have been looking at off and one for 1 year now. The latest version is much better, but still seems to have minor problems running with my browser of choice on my platform of choice. Will Jelsoft take into consideration my computer when they pick a chat? Not likely. so then I could be stuck with integration with a chat that I couldn't even use.

Also, what about server platforms? There are many chats that only work on Windows, some that only work on Unix. I currently run a Mac OS 9.x server. DigiChat and Volano chat both work on that. Chatblazer claims to work on that, but can't tell you how to launch it!

There are many issues around chat software, and I think JelSoft is better serving their customers by making it easy to integrate a chat into vBulletin, not writing their own.

You cna currently integrate vBulletin with DigiChat and it apears very easily (and better) with VolanoChat. I am actually giving ChatBlazer a second look to see how easy it would be to integrate it with vBulletin. And keep in mind, it is not so much a matter of integration with vBulletin, rather integration with an existing membership system.

Dale

[thewitt]

I don't believe these should be forum software related. I like having them separate, with the actualy product being my choice.

-t

[dabean]

Chat and a desktop instant messaging client are things that personnaly I do not wish to be integrated with vbulletin. Simply as I don't see why jellsoft should have to create the bridge(s) to <insert software product here>.

However some semi standard interface to allow third parties to integrate chat or im products might be useful. For example doing a Jabber, vBulletin integration is actually pretty straight forward once you abstract the member data (so username/password changes are also writen out the xml files jabber uses). The same goes for proper digichat, volano or even irc (via services) integration.