Rules

[Dean C]

I would suggest that maybe making the rules more visible, than hidden away in the announcements forum would be better. Given there aren't many announcements in the month, not many people will check the forum, even new visitors :)

Perhaps a link in the navbar?

[Wayne Luke]

They are linked to in the Posting Rules box at the bottom of every forum and thread page.

[Paul M]

How many people ever look at that ? (or even actually see it, as I sit here using quick reply, its not even on my screen).

[Dean C]

How many people ever look at that ? (or even actually see it, as I sit here using quick reply, its not even on my screen).

Indeed. I have been posting on these forums in their current state for years now, and I have never noticed that link.

[Floris]

Before anybody can post, they have to register. The rules are listed there before the account is created.

Those who do not bother to read those, won't bother to read the sticky thread (first thread in the first forum, at the top) in the announcement forum.

Nor the perm link in the footer with other 'site details' such as members' area, etc.

Nor will they read it in the navbar.

They simply do not want to read and will be corrected upon violating any rules.

It's a common problem that many product developers, operating system developers, user interface developers, etc .. deal with on a daily basis.

The compromise here is consistency. Do not change things around, over time it will become common knowledge where to find additional program info, specific program section info, etc.

I strongly believe that vBulletin's natural development towards a tabbed system has grown over the year. But it's not a decision one takes 'out of the blue'.

It's natural that the 'sections' of the site are divided into tabs, the page/section specific links and nagivation below that, in the top of the page, and the site specific details such as 'contact us' and 'disclaimer' and 'copyright notice' are to be found in the footer.

In between, in the content, one should be able to find the page specific elements, such as the controls at the top and the options at the bottom of that content. Inline content such as quote buttons are element specific.

It's reasonable if you are unaware of how a product works, that you can switch from the forum to the blog or the cms, from a tab, while the thread you're viewing might have a navbar to jump you to the user control panel, or options at the bottom to change the view.

And so it's also reasonable to expect that if they have issues with a thread, or a user in the thread, they can find the means such as 'Who do I contact?' and 'What are the rules actually?' to be located in the footer.

The top navbar shouldn't (IMO) be populated with additional links such as 'forum leaders' and 'site rules' and 'upgrade to premium accounts'.

I can however agree to this, if the 'Community' dropdown (specific to vBulletin product) and the 'Quick Links' get organized more properly. It's a mess how they're having it now, just throw everything everywhere kinda approach. It would be desirable to have a community dropdown in the navbar, if it has community specific links, including the community rules. This would make that logical. It doesn't make sense for example to have 'view my profile' under 'web site quick links'. This is something that matches an account of a user. However, there's no 'Account' dropdown (there should be IMO).

It's however illogical to have 'calendar | faq | forum rules | view profile' in the navbar, alongside 'usercp | search'.

Anyway, this is my opinion, based on experience doing web design, doing consultation, and making a styles for vB powered sites. And simply my personal opinion.

So yes, while it's handy to have the posting rules box there, it is more logical to have a default perm position such as the footer. vBulletin is a community package. And not just a forum. A central spot for the site rules, disclaimers, policies, legal stuff, etc .. should be easy to find. One doesn't have to load content first to find info prior to using a site. That's like small print after the purchase.

Doesn't mean I am right :) But, to my knowledge, to my opinion, this is how these things should approached. And not 'it is hard to scroll down'.

[Mazinger]

How many people ever look at that ? (or even actually see it, as I sit here using quick reply, its not even on my screen).
The question is how many people are interested to revise the forum rules before posting. ;)

[Dean C]

Before anybody can post, they have to register. The rules are listed there before the account is created.

Those who do not bother to read those, won't bother to read the sticky thread (first thread in the first forum, at the top) in the announcement forum.

Nor the perm link in the footer with other 'site details' such as members' area, etc.

Nor will they read it in the navbar.

They simply do not want to read and will be corrected upon violating any rules.

It's a common problem that many product developers, operating system developers, user interface developers, etc .. deal with on a daily basis.

The compromise here is consistency. Do not change things around, over time it will become common knowledge where to find additional program info, specific program section info, etc.

I strongly believe that vBulletin's natural development towards a tabbed system has grown over the year. But it's not a decision one takes 'out of the blue'.

It's natural that the 'sections' of the site are divided into tabs, the page/section specific links and nagivation below that, in the top of the page, and the site specific details such as 'contact us' and 'disclaimer' and 'copyright notice' are to be found in the footer.

In between, in the content, one should be able to find the page specific elements, such as the controls at the top and the options at the bottom of that content. Inline content such as quote buttons are element specific.

It's reasonable if you are unaware of how a product works, that you can switch from the forum to the blog or the cms, from a tab, while the thread you're viewing might have a navbar to jump you to the user control panel, or options at the bottom to change the view.

And so it's also reasonable to expect that if they have issues with a thread, or a user in the thread, they can find the means such as 'Who do I contact?' and 'What are the rules actually?' to be located in the footer.

The top navbar shouldn't (IMO) be populated with additional links such as 'forum leaders' and 'site rules' and 'upgrade to premium accounts'.

I can however agree to this, if the 'Community' dropdown (specific to vBulletin product) and the 'Quick Links' get organized more properly. It's a mess how they're having it now, just throw everything everywhere kinda approach. It would be desirable to have a community dropdown in the navbar, if it has community specific links, including the community rules. This would make that logical. It doesn't make sense for example to have 'view my profile' under 'web site quick links'. This is something that matches an account of a user. However, there's no 'Account' dropdown (there should be IMO).

It's however illogical to have 'calendar | faq | forum rules | view profile' in the navbar, alongside 'usercp | search'.

Anyway, this is my opinion, based on experience doing web design, doing consultation, and making a styles for vB powered sites. And simply my personal opinion.

So yes, while it's handy to have the posting rules box there, it is more logical to have a default perm position such as the footer. vBulletin is a community package. And not just a forum. A central spot for the site rules, disclaimers, policies, legal stuff, etc .. should be easy to find. One doesn't have to load content first to find info prior to using a site. That's like small print after the purchase.

Doesn't mean I am right :) But, to my knowledge, to my opinion, this is how these things should approached. And not 'it is hard to scroll down'.

I read the rules for this forum over seven years ago so I shouldn't be expected to remember them from when I signed up. I agree it's not hard to scroll down, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable. I shouldn't have to scroll all the way up and down a page to find the link to the rules. You could also argue that I could do a search on the page, well that's an un-necessary step your average user won't take (can't be bothered to find the research paper I read this on).

Ultimately this is a usability problem, and people forget that even though I am a developer, I am still a user. If I can't find the rules (a user with seven years experience with this software), then how is someone who has never used the software meant to find them.

I don't want to turn this into an argument or even a debate. I was simply stating that I found it hard to find the rules and maybe they may be better placed :)

[Floris]

Not sure why you are so negative towards me, when if you read my post you will see I am agreeing with you. I think it is illogical to put such content inside the content area when it's expected to be in the footer. Consistency is key here, and putting it inside a collapsable box as a courtesy is one thing, not including it in the footer where it's to be expected is another.

[Reeve of Shinra]

I never noticed the forum rules link lol

[hitmancode47]

As long as there is a link to the forums rules on the page, then what can go wrong? lol

But i do think that they could actually have a link that says "Forum Rules" so people actually know what it is.

[speysider]

Yeah, I think there's a hack available from vB.org that allows you to place a link to Forum Rules on the nav bar.

[hitmancode47]

Yeah, I think there's a hack available from vB.org that allows you to place a link to Forum Rules on the nav bar.

I doubt that vb.com will use hacks on the forums :)

[speysider]

Even so, there is no need to use the Forum Rules link at the bottom to find out what the global forum rules are for vB.com.

What about making a forum where all community rules are placed? This wouldn't count forum-specific rules. :) Loads of forums running vB do this, so why can't this community do so?

[Floris]

Why would you wanna do that? If users aren't even going to read the announcement forum - which to be honest : sounds pretty important to perhaps check out as a customer

Why would they care about going to a forum called ' all these threads here are our forum rules '

[speysider]

Why would you wanna do that? If users aren't even going to read the announcement forum - which to be honest : sounds pretty important to perhaps check out as a customer

Why would they care about going to a forum called ' all these threads here are our forum rules '

I've seen a lot of forums do this, and the PokeCommunity and RelicNews are fine examples. :)

[Wayne Luke]

We're not going to make a new forum for one thread. That is not really a viable suggestion.

http://www.vbulletin.com/go/rules

Its also most likely not going in the navbar. We are working to place a direct link in the footer near the Contact Us link. Just need someone with permission to edit templates to make the change for us.

[Floris]

I am glad it works out for them. I stand by my post that the content itself is not the logical path/location for newcomers to find such important details. That it is there 'also' (talking only about how vBcom has it now, forum rules box and the announcement forum) is/should be 'extra'.

[Steve Machol]

'Terms of Service' link now added to footer.

[Abomination]

'Terms of Service' link now added to footer.

If it works for vB.com, should that come standard so people know where to look for it across all vB forums?

[Steve Machol]

It is standard. It's part of the normal footer template. You just have to enter that URL here:

Admin CP -> vBulletin Options -> Site Name / URL / Contact Details -> Terms of Service URL

[Floris]

'Terms of Service' link now added to footer.
Excellent.

[---MAD---]

'Terms of Service' link now added to footer.
Very useful to newer and older users a like, thanks :).

[Mazinger]

'Terms of Service' link now added to footer.

Seems very redundant to me.

[speysider]

It's still at the bottom, people have to scroll to the bottom still to see the rules.

[Abomination]

It is standard. It's part of the normal footer template. You just have to enter that URL here:

Admin CP -> vBulletin Options -> Site Name / URL / Contact Details -> Terms of Service URL


Learn something new every day!


My live site is 3.7.3 and it does not have that.
My test copy is 3.8.2 and it does have that, thanks!

[Floris]

It's still at the bottom, people have to scroll to the bottom still to see the rules.
Almost every page on the internet comes with a scrollbar. People will get used to it.

[speysider]

Yeah :(

[Dean C]

'Terms of Service' link now added to footer.

Thanks Steve. That is the second place I'd have looked, so it's a fair compromise :)

[hornstar6969]

Scrolls down to see the rules link ^^

ps. I just read some of the rules and noticed "
Affiliate Programs" How do you sign up?

[Crystal Shards]

I don't see what's wrong with putting it in the navbar. It would definitely get more attention than the footer. I barely look at the footer on my own forum, let alone someone else's. But I'd say most people look at the navbar when they're looking for stuff, so at least they see it on a more regular basis. But it's not my forum, so I guess footer it is.

[schwab2clarkson]

I don't see what's wrong with putting it in the navbar. It would definitely get more attention than the footer. I barely look at the footer on my own forum, let alone someone else's. But I'd say most people look at the navbar when they're looking for stuff, so at least they see it on a more regular basis. But it's not my forum, so I guess footer it is.
It's just the way how the package is.

It's great how they have the rules up on here.

[Crystal Shards]

It's just the way how the package is.

I'm not sure I understand. It's completely possible and relatively easy to put it up in the navbar... Or did you mean more along the lines, "That's the way the cookie crumbles"?

[schwab2clarkson]

I'm not sure I understand. It's completely possible and relatively easy to put it up in the navbar... Or did you mean more along the lines, "That's the way the cookie crumbles"?
Close to it. Some people like to have their own feel to their own forum. These guys just like to leave things as it is which can be good. Obviously it doesn't suit everyone, but if you ask them nicely they will easily fix it up for you. Just like what Steve did when adding the terms of service as a link down the bottom.

I have my rules in the FAQ section of my forum. People read that.

[MRGTB]

It's still at the bottom, people have to scroll to the bottom still to see the rules.

God forbid if these same people who can't be bothered to scroll down a page ever had to walk to the shop for some food, they would have a heart attack from the sheer thought of doing it. :eek:

[schwab2clarkson]

It's still at the bottom, people have to scroll to the bottom still to see the rules.
I don't want to sound awfully rude to you mate but really why do you want everything going your way all the time? If you want things your way get yourself your own forum and you do it your way.

[SNN]

I don't want to sound awfully rude to you mate but really why do you want everything going your way all the time? If you want things your way get yourself your own forum and you do it your way.
I wonder who that sounds like ^^

For anyone who doesn't want to read the rules from the footer link, or going to the Announcements forum, let them be infracted.

[Floris]

This topic has been addressed and there was a staff reply.

I vote: closed.

Constructive argument: See above + We're not vbsoap.com

[Wayne Luke]

I agree that its been addressed. We have a long standing policy of minimal template edits on this site and the navbar is already crowded enough. We could add it to the footer without a template edit using vBulletin options.