Google updated their PR

[Vtec44]

:D One of my sites went from 4 to 5. :D

[Wayne Luke]

Did that move you higher in the search rankings? Does it automatically guarantee more visits?

I have always thought that PR was a worthless stat because it doesn't guarantee you traffic. Your position in the actual listings returned on searches for your keywords is what should be important.

[Vtec44]

It doesn't do anything, but I think often people use it to attract potential advertisers. Possibly, Google thinks you're more important and send their spider to your site more often.

[ManagerJosh]

PR, to the best of my understanding, is the value of your page to Google based on what other sites link to that particular page.

[Wayne Luke]

PR, to the best of my understanding, is the value of your page to Google based on what other sites link to that particular page.

I understand what it is. I am saying that pagerank alone doesn't provide any concrete benefits.

[Vtec44]

I understand what it is. I am saying that pagerank alone doesn't provide any concrete benefits.

Yep, PageRank itself doesn't do much as far as directly getting the users to the page. But, you have to wonder why Google is spending a lot of time and resources on this. Maybe it's some sort of Google's rating system. What for? If I know for sure, I'd be rich! :D There are quite a few advertisers price out each site using a combination of factors, including PageRank.

[birdie]

Google update PR internaly everyday. All you are seeing is an export of some historical PR data to the toolbar for us to see.

[osurhuai]

:cool::D:mad::p:o:):confused::mad::(

[Mark K]

You can have no google PR and still be top of search's so its not that important to guiding traffic

[flashgordon]

Google PR was never important to me.
There are certain ingredients of their PR formula that are important for your search engine ranking, though. (like the number of links to your pages).

[Vtec44]

So yeah, in case no one posted that PR doesn't directly bring traffic to your site... it doesn't directly bring traffic to your site. LOL

http://www.google.com/technology/

"Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines dozens of aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query."

[Wayne Luke]

Here is my point...

Look at the first forum in your signature with a PR of 5. I go to google.com and enter the following key words - "sport bikes".

I don't see your page in the listing. However I do see www.sportbikes.net (http://www.sportbikes.net) which has a PR of 3 as the number 1 listing. Anything not on the first page has to rely on incoming links from other websites to get traffic as very few people will go further than those 10 listings. Now I am sure you have other keywords that you might test for and might appear higher in the rankings on those. This search is just the ones that I looked at.

So my question is this. What benefit does changing from a PR of 4 to a PR of 5 give to your site. It doesn't make someone more likely to visit your site. It doesn't increase traffic because it doesn't make you appear at the top of the list or even on the first page for what I would think are pretty relevant keywords. Yeah, advertisers might offer a few more pennies per ad but if there is no additional traffic then how much benefit is that?

Hopefull this makes things a little more clear.

PR and SEO companies will toss things like PR and Alexa rankings around at you but the only real meaning they have in the whole scope of things is separating your money from your wallet and placing it in theirs.

Just to be clear this isn't an attack on you but a comment on the fanaticism that surrounds Google in general and Pagerank specifically.

That you increased from a PR4 to PR5 does show that you have relevant content as more external sites are linking to you. This in turn should drive additional traffic to your site because that is how the WWW works. These links advertise your site and get people interested in it through word of mouth. It doesn't matter if this through negotiations on your part or organic growth. However it would happen whether or not Google existed as long as you are active in your content and promote your site in ethically acceptable ways.

[malatyaus]

So yeah, in case no one posted that PR doesn't directly bring traffic to your site... it doesn't directly bring traffic to your site. LOL

http://www.google.com/technology/

"Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines dozens of aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query."

I agree but google will use it or they are using who knows the algorithm.Main issue is google pr is important on advertise. Unfortunately my directory drops 4 to 0.

[Vtec44]

Here is my point...

Look at the first forum in your signature with a PR of 5. I go to google.com and enter the following key words - "sport bikes".

I don't see your page in the listing. However I do see www.sportbikes.net (http://www.sportbikes.net) which has a PR of 3 as the number 1 listing. Anything not on the first page has to rely on incoming links from other websites to get traffic as very few people will go further than those 10 listings. Now I am sure you have other keywords that you might test for and might appear higher in the rankings on those. This search is just the ones that I looked at.

Since we are "Southern California Sportbike Riders Network", key words like "california sportbike", "calfornia sportbike forum", "los angeles sportbike forum" are more relevant to our demographic. I don't really want people in New York on our forum, nor do they want to be on a California sportbike forum.

My original post has nothing to do with PR and traffic that it may bring, but just to let others know that Google has recently updated their public PR system. The PR score is continuously being updated between servers, but the score that the public gets to see is only updated once in a while. PR is only 1 piece of the puzzle, and for us we use it to attract advertisers. So hey guys you may want to update your advertising proposal with the new score, if you are using the score in your proposal.

:D

[Wayne Luke]

But doesn't Google update this at the end of every month? So not sure why it needs to be announced for that purpose. It happens on a regular basis already.

[Vtec44]

Publicly, I believe it's once every 3 or 4 months. Behind the scene, I heard it's constantly.

[legionofangels2]

The actual URL is number 1 most important. If it is what the search criteria is, you are number 1 regardless of page rank.

If there are similar URL's page rank and other qualifications come into play.

Page Rank is not useless, but the strongest thing a site can have is it's URL IMO.

Like it, love it, hate it, I've seen it a million times, the URL or web address is always number 1 regardless of any other parameters...a million pages of content, doesn't matter; if they have the url of the search term, you lose.

[birdie]

Page Rank is not useless, but the strongest thing a site can have is it's URL IMO.Not even close to being true

[Vtec44]

Not even close to being true

No kidding.

I have two websites with the keywords in the URL, still not showing up on top compare to one without the keywords. :o

[legionofangels2]

No kidding.

I have two websites with the keywords in the URL, still not showing up on top compare to one without the keywords. :o

ON TOP, or on the front page?

Since day 1 ours was on the front page for our keyword title. For the first few months it was like number 3 4 or 5, but it was always on the front page.

Oh and it was an opinion from what I've seen in the multitude of searches I do, for example search any of these items:

Apple Tree
Football
Hope
Solar System
Basketball
Heart
Flowers
Hippo
Saturn
Race Car

Then look at the URL's on the pages of those searches, in every one of them, the url contains the keyword in more than 50%, of the results. Including Heart and Flowers where 9/10 or ALL of them were a part of the URL as well.

So you take URL + Actual page content that has..."the same keyword" as the url of the page, and you get a pretty strong result regardless of PR.

I don't work for google, nor do either of you obviously. But I'm just saying that in a majority of searches the keywords are in the URL's as well. The exceptions are most likely going to be complex combinations of keywords, and it's not really a surprise. Obviously brand names, organizations, acronyms, and such can change the possibility of results, and I was not saying that this was "definitive" or that it happens in EVERY case. I'm stating the majority of time I do searches, this is what I've noticed.

K, thanx

LoA

[Vtec44]

ON TOP, or on the front page?


On top of the front page? :D



The actual URL is number 1 most important.

That is incorrect.

So you take URL + Actual page content that has..."the same keyword" as the url of the page
That makes more sense.

[TheExpatDirector]

I love the old SEO debate, if Google did nothing else with its creation, it certainly created one of the most talked about subjects on the net.

1 of my sites that I have run for around 18 months now comes in no 1 on about 8 search terms (which is nice) on google and other search engines.

As my page rank has grown I have noticed an increase in google ad revenue but not significant enough to link it directly to the PR.

Most of my valid useful traffic is driven via the links that I took the time to exchange with beneficail, similar sites. This has obviously resulted in an increase in PR but not always an increase in traffic (due to link positioning etc, yes I know link position is a factor of google blah blah).

Whilst the important factor is always valid traffic, we all know that deep inside every webmaster and webowner is that yearning desire to see that damn pagerank bar full green singing a 10. Why, so that we can then focus on something really useful instead, like making money lol.

I always get funny question about SEO (http://www.freebusinesswebs.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8) from companies during the web design phase. 'Should we buy this $1000.00 package that guarantees top page blah blah' My answer is always, if you have that much to spend, spend it on advertising. What is more important, increasing your business turnover or throwing your money away on the of chance of a higher search engine result. Most businesses are so unique (geographically and service/product) that their competition for the same keyword is actually pointless.

As someone pointed out a few posts ago, why aim for a keyword that will attract traffic from New York when it has no use to him.

Websites, businesses, et al all seem to have forgotten that their target audience is not always the world!


Anyway, page rank can be tricked. I have pointed URLs at my home page PR4, left for a couple of months and it has made it to PR3 on the backbone of the content, keywords etc without any direct links from anywhere. Why mention this? to underline that PRs main use is in cash generation, advertisers are attrcted to higher PR on google and I say thank God for their stupidity :)

[birdie]

Anyway, page rank can be tricked. I have pointed URLs at my home page PR4, left for a couple of months and it has made it to PR3 on the backbone of the content, keywords etc without any direct links from anywhere. Why mention this? to underline that PRs main use is in cash generation, advertisers are attrcted to higher PR on google and I say thank God for their stupidity I don't believe you. Please show us the URL of the page that got to PR3 without links to it.

PR has NOTHING to do with content and keywords.

[TheExpatDirector]

see to believe. site has been sold on now as another user wanted the URL more than I did (job site I'm working on).

despite being 'parked' the site is still PR3

http://www.expatcareerbychoice.com/ Check yoursefl, there are no links to it.

was pointed at www.theexpatdirectory.com (http://www.theexpatdirectory.com) while I was (am) working on the site until needed.

Seems theres more to page rank than meets the eye. :eek:

[TheExpatDirector]

hey ehy, heres another example. I parked this a while ago and forgot all about checking it!!!

its also a PR4, still pointing at my site and no links:

http://www.magazines4expats.com/

hold on, checking others...

[TheExpatDirector]

PR4 - No Links - http://www.expatriateanswers.com/

who needs links for pagerank lol. I get no traffic through these (apart from your all checking them now of course). Just shows the value of pagerank. Crazy hey,

So, Page Rank is a measure of incoming links - Rubbish! :)

Interestingly enough, I hold the .co.uk domains for both of these as well and they are PR0 so.... Answers on a postcard...

[MRGTB]

having the URL name the same as the content your site covers, can get you listed on the front-page of Google. However, it all depends how many other sites also use the same keyword in their URL also, and thats not taking into account people are are paying Google to get ranked high on certain keywords. It's only useful really if you have a name in the URL address that's not commonly used "IE: fish,cars,dogs," are common words.

For example, a while ago I registered "vivvo.org", vivvo is not a common word, and I was constantly ranked as number 3 on Goggles first page without any quality content posted, because I didn't have much competition to fight off.

But here is a twist, go type "sex" in Google. You will not see "sex.com" listed on the front page. that says it all really!

By the way, how do you check your page rank?

[Floris]

You could use tools like these.

http://checkbulkpagerank.com/mass_pagerank

[legionofangels2]

On top of the front page? :D

That is incorrect.

That makes more sense.

1) On the front page is most important to me. On top is not.

2) I disagree with you, but believe what you want.

3) With the mod rewrite changing the urls based upon the thread title, the content would be the same as the title in most instances. Therefore making 2 correct, since they go hand in hand.

[Vtec44]

URL rewriting is the thing of the past, shorter URL has a greater impact. SEO itself is a combination of many things, but in the end you want relevent content.

http://www.free-seo-news.com/newsletter265.htm#facts

[legionofangels2]

URL rewriting is the thing of the past, shorter URL has a greater impact. SEO itself is a combination of many things, but in the end you want relevent content.

http://www.free-seo-news.com/newsletter265.htm#facts

Ok well I'm going to let you in on this amazing secret ok, and don't tell anyone because I want to keep it for myself.

But when I added all of hulu.com to my website and I made the threads as:

Watch 30 Rock Episodes

For example.

That amazingly worked as the URL for the thread, yet there wasn't anything in the threads for content. All we did was post the videos, embedding them. So there was no content to crawl unless google has started crawling flash media for information.

Nonetheless we are on the front page of google for a bunch of the shows we have on our board, and there is ZERO content as far as text based. Video based yes, but google isn't counting hulu so much since it doesn't own it.

Also second part:

Made a thread called

Hell's Kitchen Season 4 Winner

6 weeks before the show was over, with a poll, thought it was a good SEO move, I was right. has over 4000 views, and 2 people joined if I can remember just for the sake of posting in that thread. Not a good turnover ratio, but still, was on front page of google for 6 to 8 weeks.

all the text in those titles are in the URL, so since the content matches the URL, it doubles the effect from what I've seen giving you a better rating. (( which in the end proves my theory or adds more merit to it certainly that the URL does matter ))

[Vtec44]

That's awesome. Were you able to track which key words that people were hitting your site with? So you mean that they're no longer on the front page of Google for any of us to see? LOL

[MRGTB]

Ok well I'm going to let you in on this amazing secret ok, and don't tell anyone because I want to keep it for myself.

But when I added all of hulu.com to my website and I made the threads as:

Watch 30 Rock Episodes

For example.

That amazingly worked as the URL for the thread, yet there wasn't anything in the threads for content. All we did was post the videos, embedding them. So there was no content to crawl unless google has started crawling flash media for information.

Nonetheless we are on the front page of google for a bunch of the shows we have on our board, and there is ZERO content as far as text based. Video based yes, but google isn't counting hulu so much since it doesn't own it.

Also second part:

Made a thread called

Hell's Kitchen Season 4 Winner

6 weeks before the show was over, with a poll, thought it was a good SEO move, I was right. has over 4000 views, and 2 people joined if I can remember just for the sake of posting in that thread. Not a good turnover ratio, but still, was on front page of google for 6 to 8 weeks.

all the text in those titles are in the URL, so since the content matches the URL, it doubles the effect from what I've seen giving you a better rating. (( which in the end proves my theory or adds more merit to it certainly that the URL does matter ))

When you say you was on the front-page of google, was you searching for "hulu" to see where you was listed?

[legionofangels2]

That's awesome. Were you able to track which key words that people were hitting your site with? So you mean that they're no longer on the front page of Google for any of us to see? LOL

When you say you was on the front-page of google, was you searching for "hulu" to see where you was listed?

What I've been trying to say is that the URL is very important in regards to the search terms. Someone mentioned Sex and that was a good example of it not working, but actually go look at www.sex.com (http://www.sex.com) and you'll find that there really isn't anything there. They don't even have a community set up, no porn videos that I could see. It's almost as if that site is being spoofed with a great domain name. Thats the type of site that doesn't need help with thread urls, I bet it gets a ton of hits off of the domain name alone, people thinking...oh lets look at sex.com and see what site it is.

As far as google front page, did I track the keywords, google does that for you, and it changes almost all the times I've checked it but certain things were fairly consistent. Let's have a look:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/scorpion_666/havealook.png

The hells kitchen one I don't think we're on the front page anymore because the show has ended, and many news articles and blogs overtook my spot probably with better PR, or deeper content on the subject than I had.

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=Hell%27s+Kitchen+Season+4+Winner&btnG=Google+Search

lol...I'm still on the bottom of the page, I thought I had fallen off, as you can see other News places posted articles on it and bumped me down, I used to be like 5th or 6th while the show was on the air.

Here are 3 from Episodes of shows, of which there is videos in the threads:

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=Watch+Sitting+Ducks+Episodes&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=Watch+The+Pretender+Episodes&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=Watch+Kitchen+Confidentials+Episodes&btnG=Google+Search

I found 3 randomly, and I'm not going to check the 145 different threads/forums we have for those shows. But I'm on page 1 of google for each one, and there is basically no content in those threads aside from video, and the first post has a jpeg image and minor description of the show, of which we copied Hulu's content.

No, I didn't search Hulu to find my own site or compare, I'm not trying to be hulu and cannot beat the source of where I'm getting my videos. I also haven't used the word hulu except in maybe 1 or 2 threads on my whole board.

In all the google searches I used the name of the thread as the search. Which is put in the url with VBSEO or something's fancy urls.

Notice though on that bottom link, I was searching for Kitchen Confidentials, still on front page of google, but for the wrong show. Hell's Kitchen...dunno why.

[Vtec44]

URL rewriting is the thing of the past, shorter URL has a greater impact. SEO itself is a combination of many things, but in the end you want relevent content.

http://www.free-seo-news.com/newsletter265.htm#facts


Sex.com is the perfect example. Without relevant content, even with the keyword in the domain name you won't people won't be able to find you. Sex.com is lucky because it's a widely known domain, but imagine if your're starting out with something a lot less widely known.

[Loco.M]

hey ehy, heres another example. I parked this a while ago and forgot all about checking it!!!

its also a PR4, still pointing at my site and no links:

http://www.magazines4expats.com/

hold on, checking others...

PR4 - No Links - http://www.expatriateanswers.com/

who needs links for pagerank lol. I get no traffic through these (apart from your all checking them now of course). Just shows the value of pagerank. Crazy hey,

So, Page Rank is a measure of incoming links - Rubbish! :)

Interestingly enough, I hold the .co.uk domains for both of these as well and they are PR0 so.... Answers on a postcard...
this is very easy to check :rolleyes:
http://www.seologs.com/pr-check/pagerank.html