vBulletin 3.6.8 Release Discussion [Archive]

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Mike Sullivan

Thu 26th Jul '07, 11:49am

This thread is for discussing the release of vBulletin 3.6.8.

Please use this thread to talk about things you like or installation experiences etc., but please do not use this thread to post troubleshooting queries or bug reports. These threads tend to grow very large and bug reports etc. tend to become lost and will not get attention from the support or development teams.

For reporting bugs, please use the vBulletin Bug Tracker, which is now part of the vBulletin Project Tools. (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/project.php?s=&do=issuelist&projectid=6&sortfield=lastpost&sortorder=&issuetypeid=bug&appliesversionid=g7&issuestatusid=0)

Mazinger

Thu 26th Jul '07, 11:57am

Thank you. :D

I was watching and you released it in a second. :p

ThorstenA

Thu 26th Jul '07, 11:58am

Great work :D

UnderEstimated

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:00pm

thank you good work will upgrade sometime in the evening :)

alessai

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:05pm

lool i just renew my account.....

Mazinger

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:06pm

I win again. :D

SHOWTHREAD

Added padding around the Quick Reply options. See bug #22840 (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/project.php?issueid=22480).contactus

Changed error message cell to be alt1 instead of alt2 for consistency.moderation_threads

Moved the inline moderation quick links <div> to the end of the page to fix quirks in IE6. See bug #22692 (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/project.php?issueid=22692).modifysignature

Changed the signature permission matrix display to handle this issue (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/project.php?issueid=22002).postbit_deleted

Changed the cellspacing to $stylevar[cellspacing] for a more consistent look.USERCP

Removed link from "New Subscribed Threads" because that's not actually where it took you to.
Updated Subscribed Threads table to take into account the size of the columns if post icons are disabled.

btw, are you sure you fixed this? - Doesn't seem to be fixed here.

SHOWTHREAD
Added padding around the Quick Reply options. See bug #22840 (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/project.php?issueid=22480).

Ohiosweetheart

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:23pm

Like Kier did for the last upgrade, would it be possible for you to post exactly what changes were made in the Showthread template, for those who have custom skins and can't just revert?

Please? :)

EWGF

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:23pm

SHOWTHREAD

* Mandatory Change: Changes to allow a more flexible text editor size. (Quick reply will be very small if you don't do this.)
Does this mean 'showthread' is drasticaly changed, since I can't tell what's the actual change here :confused:

Mike Sullivan

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:31pm

Like Kier did for the last upgrade, would it be possible for you to post exactly what changes were made in the Showthread template, for those who have custom skins and can't just revert?

Please? :)
Find the <div class="panel">...</div> section (make sure you find the corresponding </div>) and use this:

<div class="panel">
<div align="$stylevar[left]" style="max-width:$stylevar[formwidth]; width:auto !important; width:$stylevar[formwidth]">
<div class="smallfont">$vbphrase[message]:</div>
<div id="$editorid" class="vBulletin_editor">$messagearea</div>

<fieldset class="fieldset" style="margin:$stylevar[formspacer]px 0px 0px 0px">
<legend>$vbphrase[options]</legend>
<div style="padding:$stylevar[formspacer]px">
<if condition="$bbuserinfo['signature']">
<div style="float:$stylevar[right]"><label for="cb_signature"><input type="checkbox" name="signature" value="1" id="cb_signature" tabindex="5" checked="checked" />$vbphrase[show_your_signature]</label></div>
</if>
<label for="qr_quickreply"><input type="checkbox" name="quickreply" value="1" id="qr_quickreply" accesskey="w" tabindex="4" />$vbphrase[quote_message_in_reply]</label>
</div>
</fieldset>
</div>
</div>

nymyth

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:31pm

ah man, I hate having to do this....lol....so many customizations have to be redone..lol

Gulf Soul

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:35pm

Thanks ..

Upgrading ...

Luca_000

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:35pm

Hi,
can I have the vbulletin template's update? :)
thanks
L.

HDT

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:37pm

Thanks for new update,downloaded first installed later.

egyptsons

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:43pm

Ohiosweetheart

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:49pm

Thank you SO much Mike! You're a gem. :D

forumsonsuz

Thu 26th Jul '07, 12:49pm

Thank you

Miko

Thu 26th Jul '07, 1:02pm

here we go again , thx for the update

Asvin

Thu 26th Jul '07, 1:16pm

cool release...now when i buy vbulletin, i can use the blog!!

egecakar

Thu 26th Jul '07, 1:19pm

thanks for the great work.

digitalhome

Thu 26th Jul '07, 1:23pm

Thanks guys. I am assuming there is no security reason to update immediately so I can wait a few weeks until I get back from holidays to update?

NotAnAdmin

Thu 26th Jul '07, 1:33pm

Thanks! This is a good release.

Yours Truly

Thu 26th Jul '07, 1:39pm

What has changed with the vBulletin credits may i ask?

smackLAN

Thu 26th Jul '07, 1:47pm

here we go again , thx for the update
haha...isn't that the truth Miko :D

Scott MacVicar

Thu 26th Jul '07, 1:50pm

What has changed with the vBulletin credits may i ask?
Staff members no longer involved with the product were removed.

PixelFX

Thu 26th Jul '07, 1:53pm

thanks for the update and hard work :D, *runs off to upgrade*

Yours Truly

Thu 26th Jul '07, 2:00pm

Staff members no longer involved with the product were removed.
Thanks Scott =]

It's just mine was heavily modified :p

I just renamed my modified one and told it to include that as well as the new one =]

baghdad4ever

Thu 26th Jul '07, 2:08pm

thanks

i will waiting bec i wanna to upgrade my style before upgrade the forum

Reeve of Shinra

Thu 26th Jul '07, 2:09pm

Awesome! Looks like good news for those of us waiting on the blogs.

LinkBliss

Thu 26th Jul '07, 2:49pm

Yeah, what does that mean about the blogs - is it being released today or tomorrow or this month?
Eric

nymyth

Thu 26th Jul '07, 2:57pm

I AM ALL DONE.....phew....gotta love winmerge....thanks for the update btw

---MAD---

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:01pm

Great stuff, will upgrade tomorrow :).

yogesh

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:01pm

Thanks for releasing this before the weekend, else I would have installed 3.6.7 on my forum.

Scott MacVicar

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:19pm

Yeah, what does that mean about the blogs - is it being released today or tomorrow or this month?
Eric
The blog is currently in private beta testing, there is currently no date for a release as we work with the team on tweaking certain features and behaviours.

FBJunkie

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:23pm

Floris

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:28pm

I will be upgrading my sites later tonight.

nymyth

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:30pm

I currently have 3.6.7PL installed and have a lot of MODs on my board, which required a lot of template and file edits. I am not really a novice at upgrading when new versions come out in fear that the upgrade will throw my board in to chaos due to all of the template and file edits. In the past I would dump my board and start fresh with the newest version. However, this time I am reluctant to do it this way again as I am approaching my deadline for when I officially make my board public.

Seeing as their were alot of file changes since 3.6.7 and some template edits, will doing an upgrade mess up all of my edited templates and files? And if I decide to keep my board as is, what problems may I encounter down the road?
From what I see, it doesnt look like a big update. I upgraded one of my boards, because we are waiting for the vblog, however all the others I have left as is because the upgrade right now just didnt seem neccessary.

FBJunkie

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:33pm

Okay but when doing these upgrades on boards with a lot of MODs, and all of the file and template edits, what does the upgrade do to all of the changed files and templates. Are they overwrited with the current upgraded files?

Chousho

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:42pm

I currently have 3.6.7PL installed and have a lot of MODs on my board, which required a lot of template and file edits. I am not really a novice at upgrading when new versions come out in fear that the upgrade will throw my board in to chaos due to all of the template and file edits. In the past I would dump my board and start fresh with the newest version. However, this time I am reluctant to do it this way again as I am approaching my deadline for when I officially make my board public.

Seeing as their were alot of file changes since 3.6.7 and some template edits, will doing an upgrade mess up all of my edited templates and files? And if I decide to keep my board as is, what problems may I encounter down the road?

You can make a test board (passworded directory named vbtest or the like) that you can use as a sandbox before implementing upgrades.
All you have to do is:
Create a copy of your current database
Create the testvb directory
Copy your current files to the testvb
Overwrite with 3.6.8
Run Upgrade.php on your new test forumAlmost forgot. Make sure to edit your config.php file to reflect the copy of the database, instead of the public one.

FBJunkie

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:47pm

Onimua

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:47pm

Sweet! Will upgrade later. :D

sensimilla

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:48pm

Thanks alot for another update :) Looking after 4.0

PitchouneN64ngc

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:51pm

It seems some templates edits are missing from the announcement, like the 'footer' template (add accesskey="9" to "Contact Us" link)

Didikoy

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:54pm

Thanks for the update :)
Lets see if I can upgrade the forum, without causing any major damage

WurkAnimal

Thu 26th Jul '07, 3:55pm

Thanks!

Zaiaku

Thu 26th Jul '07, 4:02pm

I already have to updated. I just installed my new board the other day.

mihai11

Thu 26th Jul '07, 4:04pm

It is good that VB is now better at adapting the editor sizes to browser window width ! I will try this to see how it works.

Mazinger

Thu 26th Jul '07, 4:06pm

Really? Does the message editor stretch?

If so, it will be an amazing feature. :)

clothahump

Thu 26th Jul '07, 4:13pm

Not again, and to think we Pay for the priveledge of the extra work, will there ever be an autoinstaller?
Will this mess up my mods?
Why do I hate this every time it happens?

Chousho

Thu 26th Jul '07, 4:31pm

Thanks for the advice Chousho, but can anyone tell what I can expect after I upgrade a 3.6.7PL board (that has had a lot of template and file edits) to 3.6.8? Or is the above suggestion the only way I can determine how my current board is affected with the upgrade?

After I make a copy of my existing database, how and where do I put this for the 3.6.8 version?
The only way to see if you have too many mods is to actually try it. That's why I suggested to make a copy of your current forum setup and try it out as a test bed. If it works, just upload the 3.6.8 files to the public directory, overwriting the files, and launch upgrade.php

Not again, and to think we Pay for the priveledge of the extra work, will there ever be an autoinstaller?
:( We pay for a forum product where the devs fix and update the software.
Having an auto-installer would require the forum directory, and all below, to be chmod to 777. Not exactly something everyone wants to do, for security reasons (which also happens to be part of the reason many use VB in the first place).

Floris

Thu 26th Jul '07, 5:12pm

Really? Does the message editor stretch?

If so, it will be an amazing feature. :)
Offtopic .. but here's a 20mb .mov file (http://www.fortehwin.org/safari_resize.mov) (sorry so big) I made a month ago showing off the resize textarea in safari

Ranger375

Thu 26th Jul '07, 5:17pm

11 templates I had to revert. There goes my social life :D

Ohiosweetheart

Thu 26th Jul '07, 5:32pm

dutchbb

Thu 26th Jul '07, 5:36pm

Offtopic .. but here's a 20mb .mov file (http://www.fortehwin.org/safari_resize.mov) (sorry so big) I made a month ago showing off the resize textarea in safari
Nice one Floris, just for that feature alone I will upgrade this weekend :D

vB team: great work, thank you!

kharris53

Thu 26th Jul '07, 5:44pm

Hi
When I ran my first installment, I installed with the php3 extensions. I'm fairly certain that was an option provided. 3.6.7pl1 didn't provide for this and essentially I ended up with php and php3 extensions. A real mess. I'd like to upgrade to .8, but while my board is functional and I haven't experienced any problems, I have yet to cleanup the mess from the last attempted upgrade. Before I do this (if I do this, actually), I'd like to know what affect this will have on my board running the php3 extensions? I believe the original version installed was 3.5.8. Thanks.
I should add that I did upgrade to 3.6.7, which I'm currently using. The pl1 upgrade with php extensions created more problems and isn't being used. Hope all this makes sense...

---MAD---

Thu 26th Jul '07, 5:57pm

The blog is currently in private beta testing, there is currently no date for a release as we work with the team on tweaking certain features and behaviours.
What if that needs making more code changes to vbulletin itself? I would have thought all the features etc are done now and only bug fixes are being sorted? Thats what I thought anyway :).

smackLAN

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:03pm

This upgrade is really not that big of a deal. I mean it IS necessary, but it's not hard. There's only ONE template with a mandatory change, and Mike posted the exact change to make on the first page of this thread, therefore you don't have to revert it and re-apply any mod template edits.

Not a big deal.
Not necessarily Peg, according to the announcement thread:

Your vBulletin installation will not be broken if you don't apply these changes, but small bugs may be fixed and new functionality may be available by applying these changes. We recommend you apply these changes in the same way that you apply mandatory changes.For us skin sellers, all template changes are mandatory and for me that equals 415 templates to update over 80+ styles :eek:

Marcos2

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:07pm

Yours Truly

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:08pm

Not necessarily Peg, according to the announcement thread:

For us skin sellers, all template changes are mandatory and for me that equals 415 templates to update over 80+ styles :eek:
Now there goes a social life :p

ragtek

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:11pm

Forget the blog or any other third-party product...I would pay extra to have some kind of auto-installer so that each time a new version comes out we don't have to revert all the templates we've made changes to and then go in and make the changes all over again. There has to be a way and that should be the #1 add on that VB should be working on. Just my suggestion.

Marcos
and how should the autoinstaller know if to let the old template(s) or to revert it?
that are things that should the admin do
and i think its not very secure if the whole vb directory have write permissions

nymyth

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:11pm

MotoUp

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:20pm

Flawless update. Thanks. :)

Floris

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:23pm

Nice one Floris, just for that feature alone I will upgrade this weekend :D

vB team: great work, thank you!
It's a safari feature, hence the 'offtopic'.

iogames.com

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:29pm

ooops! I got a log of everything I do to my board, and I keep weekly backups, but I forgot the tweaks :'(
Does they suffer with the upgrade?

Scott MacVicar

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:30pm

What are tweaks?

Template changes?
Code changes?
Databsae changes?
Plugins?

The only ones affected are code changes because you overwrite the file and template changes if you chose to revert them.

LPC

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:35pm

I upgraded, how many times in one year are you all going to change things til you get it right. This is getting to be a real hassle, and yes I am a paying customer.

LPC

Sergio68

Thu 26th Jul '07, 6:53pm

I upgraded, how many times in one year are you all going to change things til you get it right. This is getting to be a real hassle, and yes I am a paying customer.

LPCMore than "change" I'd like to call it improvement and securety.

Zachery

Thu 26th Jul '07, 7:02pm

I upgraded, how many times in one year are you all going to change things til you get it right. This is getting to be a real hassle, and yes I am a paying customer.

LPC
I do a considerable ammout of upgrades to both my personal sites as well as to customers sites who order upgrades. Upgrades are not hard or a hassle by a long shot. If you want to see a tricky upgrade, try upgrading from vBulletin 1.1.3 to 3.6.8 by doing every upgrade inbetween without using impex.

Yours Truly

Thu 26th Jul '07, 7:03pm

I do a considerable ammout of upgrades to both my personal sites as well as to customers sites who order upgrades. Upgrades are not hard or a hassle by a long shot. If you want to see a tricky upgrade, try upgrading from vBulletin 1.1.3 to 3.6.8 by doing every upgrade inbetween without using impex.
You have had to do that?

Zachery

Thu 26th Jul '07, 7:06pm

I've been working with vBulletin since 2.2.4 and trust me the upgrades have come A LONG WAY. In the 2.x serries there wasn't much automation, you had to run each upgrade script yourself before running the next one. There was no error checking, no picking up where it left off. It'd try to re-run the entire step. We've had some 1.1.6 upgrades come in over my time, nothing quiet as bad as what i described, but similiar.

We didn't have built in template comparsion or the plugin system.

Floris

Thu 26th Jul '07, 7:15pm

I upgraded, how many times in one year are you all going to change things til you get it right. This is getting to be a real hassle, and yes I am a paying customer.

LPC
There is no known security issue with 3.6.7pl1, if you run that version you don't have to upgrade to 3.6.8. We recommend it as it has bugs fixed. If you plan to install the blog at a later stage you can wait too.

Assim

Thu 26th Jul '07, 7:16pm

Good work vB team. :)

Ryuk

Thu 26th Jul '07, 7:25pm

awesome tho, if 3.6.7 works like a charm, then I wont upgrade n_n but thanks for keeping us informed and updated ;)

Zachery

Thu 26th Jul '07, 7:42pm

awesome tho, if 3.6.7 works like a charm, then I wont upgrade n_n but thanks for keeping us informed and updated ;)
Its always adviseable to upgrade, there are many bug fixes and feature upgrades :)

---MAD---

Thu 26th Jul '07, 8:04pm

Its not that hard to upgrade. A few template changes, pssh, no problem. Its worth the progress :D.

United32

Thu 26th Jul '07, 8:10pm

Hello!

I have done many template edits and have some modifications installed.

Is there a possibility to manually do all those template changes?

pank

Thu 26th Jul '07, 8:19pm

It seems some templates edits are missing from the announcement, like the 'footer' template (add accesskey="9" to "Contact Us" link)

Correct :) Can somebody "please" confirm this is the only change in the footer template? I've done a file compare between the old and new version and this is all that I can find. But..., I'd feel better hearing 100% that this is the only change ;)

Thanks!

Zachery

Thu 26th Jul '07, 8:34pm

Hello!

I have done many template edits and have some modifications installed.

Is there a possibility to manually do all those template changes?
Any templates that you've customized yourself you must manually update unless you revert them.

Stilgar

Thu 26th Jul '07, 8:39pm

One forum down, one to go. Of course the first one was the lightly modified forum.

Upgrade went as smooth as ever. :)

choppers4life

Thu 26th Jul '07, 8:43pm

I upgraded, how many times in one year are you all going to change things til you get it right. This is getting to be a real hassle, and yes I am a paying customer.

LPC

You can always go to phpbb where there are updates every few years.

United32

Thu 26th Jul '07, 8:46pm

Any templates that you've customized yourself you must manually update unless you revert them.
I know, I know, but where can I see what I must insert and what I must remove?

Where is the codes for manually edit?

Ev!L ErN!E

Thu 26th Jul '07, 8:54pm

I AM ALL DONE.....phew....gotta love winmerge....thanks for the update btw
does winmerge really help make things easier?

Also, for people running the patch for 3.6.7 do we have to uninstall it or disable it?

mr-keef

Thu 26th Jul '07, 8:59pm

Thank you.

sarcasticgamer

Thu 26th Jul '07, 9:32pm

The colors of the default skin on this newly installed software are scrambled. Instead of grandient blue its a scrambled mess. in some cases we're having to highlight the text to read it.

I have a guy working on this.

see what I am talking about here.

http://www.docadamsaudio.com/forums

Would appreciate any advice. Thank you.

Zachery

Thu 26th Jul '07, 9:45pm

For future refrence please post in the support forums, however specificly you uploaded the images in ASCII mode instead of binary, reupload them.

Gene Steinberg

Thu 26th Jul '07, 11:03pm

My template mods are very elementary, so I was able to do the upgrade in 20-25 minutes or so with minimal attention, other than restoring a couple of minor code changes after the templates were reverted.

While I understand the security matters, I still think a proper installer/upgrader is called for and is surely possible. There are also ways to set up the compare templates option to make it easier to plug in your customizations, I should think.

This is, after all, a commercial product.

Peace,
Gene

United32

Thu 26th Jul '07, 11:13pm

Onimua

Thu 26th Jul '07, 11:15pm

Yes, if I understand 100% what you are talking about, so I think this is something I also should see in future.

"Minor cosmetic changes" etc... It would be nice to see what exactly was changed, whole code so I can modify my customised templates, so I do not need to revert them.
That's what the template comparison tool is for.

United32

Thu 26th Jul '07, 11:23pm

That's what the template comparison tool is for.
Oh yes, you're right. My mistake....

So I can make a duplicate style (the same style as my defaut) with another name and update templates from this new release. Then should I compare style1 & style2 and add codes from changes made in 3.6.8 and implement into my default style?

Onimua

Thu 26th Jul '07, 11:46pm

You don't have to make a new style.

There's documentation on it: http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/stylemanager_compare_templates

adc-arab

Fri 27th Jul '07, 12:59am

do i have to keep the vBulletin 3.6.7 Calendar event XSS Fix after upgrading to 3.6.8 or should i uninstall it.

blindman4556

Fri 27th Jul '07, 1:14am

ya when i upgrade and it gets to the "Importing vbulletin-adminhelp.xml" part it gives me a "XML Error: unknown at Line 0" what do i do?

Naxon

Fri 27th Jul '07, 1:23am

Yay :D

Onimua

Fri 27th Jul '07, 1:25am

ya when i upgrade and it gets to the "Importing vbulletin-adminhelp.xml" part it gives me a "XML Error: unknown at Line 0" what do i do?
Post in the appropriate support forums. :)

hornstar6969

Fri 27th Jul '07, 2:06am

^^ yay one of my reported bugs is fixed and is one of the main ones. Will update tonight as well (on my birthday....better get it done quick, fiance is taking me out to dinner lol)

Griffin80

Fri 27th Jul '07, 3:45am

damn there goes watching tv this weekend lol :(

hornstar6969

Fri 27th Jul '07, 4:50am

Question was

<script type="text/javascript">

</script>

Was the above code at the top of the navbar in 3.6.7? or was that from a custom modification that I have done?

Thanks.

RayW

Fri 27th Jul '07, 5:20am

ah man, I hate having to do this....lol....so many customizations have to be redone..lol

I'm in the same boat as you! :D

tekguru

Fri 27th Jul '07, 5:22am

Guys as a vB newbie this will be my first upgrade from 3.6.7PL1 to 3.6.8.

I can work through the template edits I've made I think again so the question is how does one go about reverting the templates I've customised?

For reference I've got 3 Aria custom template sets installed.

projectego

Fri 27th Jul '07, 5:47am

Thank you! I'll be upgrading my forums later this evening. :D

Mazinger

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:01am

What's the 'Changed to allow a more flexible text editor size' that has been mentioned multipe times in the announcement?

DNS1

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:26am

thanks....:)

Onimua

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:45am

What's the 'Changed to allow a more flexible text editor size' that has been mentioned multipe times in the announcement?
It's the removal of the table around the message area (and the addition of some CSS). Look at the template comparison tool or default template to see.

3aper_speel

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:58am

thank you good work will upgrade

Dave Scouse

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:17am

Upgrade worked a sizzling treat. Thanks vBulletin wallahs.

:D

Asvin

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:53am

WurkAnimal

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:15am

Cheers Mike!

Adom7

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:20am

Thank you for Release
Yesterday, I upgraded my forum and everything was okay.
But today, while I am checking my board, I see that "view public profile" can not be displayed. A white page displays on the board. Both on the message and on what's going on ? list can not be reached public profile.

What can I do ?
Thanks

Busterking

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:27am

Forget the blog or any other third-party product...I would pay extra to have some kind of auto-installer so that each time a new version comes out we don't have to revert all the templates we've made changes to and then go in and make the changes all over again. There has to be a way and that should be the #1 add on that VB should be working on. Just my suggestion.

Marcos

I agree with you 100%.

auto-installer should be their top priority to please all their customers.

Who's in charge of this team anyways?????

hornstar6969

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:43am

I agree with you 100%.

auto-installer should be their top priority to please all their customers.

Who's in charge of this team anyways?????
I am more happy that it is not an auto installer (several reasons). It is simple the way it is, I have the most hacked up board, and it is not that hard. I am happy for them to concentrate on more important things for the time being, other fancy stuff like that can come later IMO

tekguru

Fri 27th Jul '07, 10:35am

Hornstar in that case what sort of upgrade procedure do you adopt? This is my first upgrade and I'm somewhat nervous in pushing it through as I've got custom themes with a lot of template edits.

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:04am

While I understand the security matters, I still think a proper installer/upgrader is called for and is surely possible. There are also ways to set up the compare templates option to make it easier to plug in your customizations, I should think.

This is, after all, a commercial product.

Few things here.

1) This isn't a security release.

2) It has a proper upgrade/install program. It just doesn't touch your customized templates because that would be worse and we'd be skinned alive according to past customers.

3) After upgrading the system tells you exactly how many of your templates are modified from the defaults, gives you a list of those templates and each one has options to compare them with the defaults (telling you exactly what is changed) and allowing you to edit them.

I realize this might be your first upgrade as a newer customer but please read the manual on upgrading to understand the procedure and what is actually entailed. Chances are most people won't have to modify any templates.

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:11am

auto-installer should be their top priority to please all their customers.

I'd guess that this is actually another issue that would be 25-25-50 among customers.

25% would love it.

25% would hate it.

50% don't care.

Having an "Automatic Installer" would simply cause more upgrade errors and time wasted as you try to receive support becaust a keyword/keyline in your template is missing and the change doesn't get added. Then your entire forum is down because the upgrade script can't finish.

If there was an automatic installer, what it would most likely do is just overwrite your customized templates and store them as inactive backups so your upgrade process is quick and efficient. Then you'll complain that it isn't keeping your templates.

What you need to do when upgrading is upgrade your development server first. Apply any template modifications you need to do in your customized style. Export that Style as its XML. Upgrade your live forums. Then import the XML file. No downtime. No style issues. Everyone who modifies their vBulletin installation should have a test/development installation.

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:12am

Few things here.

1) This isn't a security release.

2) It has a proper upgrade/install program. It just doesn't touch your customized templates because that would be worse and we'd be skinned alive according to past customers.

3) After upgrading the system tells you exactly how many of your templates are modified from the defaults, gives you a list of those templates and each one has options to compare them with the defaults (telling you exactly what is changed) and allowing you to edit them.

I realize this might be your first upgrade as a newer customer but please read the manual on upgrading to understand the procedure and what is actually entailed. Chances are most people won't have to modify any templates.

Thank you for completely misrepresenting what i said. When I referred to a security issue, it was the question of permission settings on the folder in which your vBulletin is installed.

I have been doing all the updates myself since first setting up vBulletin last December, and moving to new hosts over that period. I'm well acquainted with the product and the upgrade/installation procedures.

What I am talking about is a way to remove all the manual labor, or at least simplify it. The more mods you make, the more room for error. As I said, this is a commercial product and there are solutions that I'm sure programmers can find if they try.

Peace,
Gene

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:15am

Hornstar in that case what sort of upgrade procedure do you adopt? This is my first upgrade and I'm somewhat nervous in pushing it through as I've got custom themes with a lot of template edits.

The tools for your upgrade are already built in. vBulletin will tell you exactly what templates are different between your current styles and the 3.6.8 defaults. It will tell you exactly what lines in those templates are different as well.

Documentation on Updated Templates:
http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/upgrade_revert_templates

Documentation on Comparing Template changes:
http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/stylemanager_compare_templates

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:21am

Thank you for completely misrepresenting what i said. When I referred to a security issue, it was the question of permission settings on the folder in which your vBulletin is installed.

Sorry, I reread your original post and there is nothing in there about folder permission settings when installing vBulletin. I can't even guess at what that would refer to. My response was specifically to the upgrade process.

If I can litereally upgrade a forum from 3.6.7 that has dozens of template modifications and over 23 products comprised of over 200 plugins in less than 5 minutes (that includes uploading the new files), I am not sure how much more automated it can get.

---MAD---

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:28am

I honestly don't care if I have to upgrade manually. What would be a good way to improve upgrades in the future (ie starting from 4.0.0) is have the design of the forum template seperate to the functionality. So people can customize all the like the the parts where the features go will always go there and those functionality templates will be upgraded automatically :). Thats one solution.

encryption

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:39am

Would like to add that after moving from 3.6.7PL1 to 3.6.8, my board seems to be loading noticeably quicker at my end.

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:42am

Sorry, I reread your original post and there is nothing in there about folder permission settings when installing vBulletin. I can't even guess at what that would refer to. My response was specifically to the upgrade process.

If I can litereally upgrade a forum from 3.6.7 that has dozens of template modifications and over 23 products comprised of over 200 plugins in less than 5 minutes (that includes uploading the new files), I am not sure how much more automated it can get.

Manual labor creates room for error. It's as simple as that.

And you can't even copy over the files and do the first part of the upgrade process in 5 minutes. Sorry.

Peace,
Gene

nymyth

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:45am

does winmerge really help make things easier?

Also, for people running the patch for 3.6.7 do we have to uninstall it or disable it?
Oh most def. It actually made my template edits a lot easier after reverting because it would tell me what are the new differences from the new template to what I had.

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:45am

And you can't even copy over the files and do the first part of the upgrade process in 5 minutes. Sorry.

Guess it depends on your internet connection. On DSL or dial-up, I wouldn't be able to. With my cable connection, I can and its only 10mb down/ 1mb up. Not exactly the fastest connection available.

zhaoke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:48am

Upgraded my forum, cheers!

nymyth

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:50am

Guess it depends on your internet connection. On DSL or dial-up, I wouldn't be able to. With my cable connection, I can and its only 10mb down/ 1mb up. Not exactly the fastest connection available.
As much as I complain about having to make the manual edits to my templates, I prefer it this way. The upgrade is A LOT more effecient the way it is. Especiallly if you go back to the 2.0 days, now that was a nightmare. My upload and upgrade process happens in like 5 minutes.

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 12:04pm

Guess it depends on your internet connection. On DSL or dial-up, I wouldn't be able to. With my cable connection, I can and its only 10mb down/ 1mb up. Not exactly the fastest connection available.

Well, not when you have to do all those manual updates to templates, and make sure they are correct. Five minutes is pushing just the basic process of copying files and running the install or upgrade script.

My argument here, however, is that anything that requires manual labor creates the possibility of mistakes, and the more modifications, the more time-consuming the repair process takes.

Besides, this is the 21st century. Manual installations of software on personal computers was outdated in the last century. It's time to move on.

Peace,
Gene

WildEye

Fri 27th Jul '07, 12:28pm

And you can't even copy over the files and do the first part of the upgrade process in 5 minutes. Sorry.

Sure you can... Unzip the files in your local directory, then swap to the new directory and edit the config.php file with your details, then
copy -R . /where/your/forum/directory (moves the files and replaces where needed) - remember to delete the files and .zip after unpacking!

and direct your browser at the upgrade.php script and you're off. This process takes less than 5 minutes. Probably like 2...

Of course doing the template changes after the upgrade process is whats taking time for me... I find that the compare utility for templates is backwards, ie old version is acutally the new version - but you get the hang of it quick. Also i had a fun time replacing LOTS and LOTS of <tab>'s last time around so i hope there will be much less colored parts this time.

WildEye

Fri 27th Jul '07, 12:36pm

Besides, this is the 21st century. Manual installations of software on personal computers was outdated in the last century. It's time to move on.

I dont see quite how a general upgrade script can be adapted to update just the parts needed, when many users have made alterations to their files. Like Wayne Luke wrote, what if key phrases/lines could not be located in the files because someone(tm) made a change in the code...

Hovever it would be pretty easy to do if noone has any changes - remove this whole pesky userfriendly way to modify your forum..., the installscript does it automagically today if you have 0 changes to your templates etc...

On a different note, I recall having problems with my calendar from a broken phrase translation a while back, that i didn't notice until performing an upgrade... What i thought was a bug with the new version/automatic upgrade wasn't and was fixed. The script didn't inform me that the phrase had changed... So automatic isn't always better :)

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 12:41pm

I dont see quite how a general upgrade script can be adapted to update just the parts needed, when many users have made alterations to their files. Like Wayne Luke wrote, what if key phrases/lines could not be located in the files because someone(tm) made a change in the code...

Hovever it would be pretty easy to do if noone has any changes - remove this whole pesky userfriendly way to modify your forum..., the installscript does it automagically today if you have 0 changes to your templates etc...

On a different note, I recall having problems with my calendar from a broken phrase translation a while back, that i didn't notice until performing an upgrade... What i thought was a bug with the new version/automatic upgrade wasn't and was fixed. The script didn't inform me that the phrase had changed... So automatic isn't always better :)

Well, there can be several degrees of automatic in an installation scenario. So you choose what you'd want to do. A semi-automatic mode would simply show you the changes you've made and/or the ones made by the developers (equivalent to the Revert option now), and give you a one-click choice to incorporate the changes to the newer version of the template.

Another would just plug in your changes, with an Undo option in case everything blows up.

There are lots of ways to consider this, and it may even be possible for the developers of vBulletin to license installer technology from one of the companies that does this sort of thing for Mac and PC apps.

They do not necessarily have to design it from the ground-up, and I appreciate the fact that vBulletin is done by a small team.

In saying that, I've done all the updates myself with no problems, and quite quickly, though I tend to just take my time during the process. Besides, in my case, I've kept my mods simple, so I could avoid even the potential of trouble later on.

Peace,
Gene

machethier

Fri 27th Jul '07, 1:20pm

Upgrading.. NOW..

Greethings from Paraguay

Stilgar

Fri 27th Jul '07, 1:29pm

I find that the compare utility for templates is backwards, ie old version is acutally the new version - but you get the hang of it quick.

Funny you should mention that. I stumble over that every time. No matter how I try to tell myself that the Old version is the new version, I still have to triple check. :D

Marcos2

Fri 27th Jul '07, 1:48pm

If I can litereally upgrade a forum from 3.6.7 that has dozens of template modifications and over 23 products comprised of over 200 plugins in less than 5 minutes (that includes uploading the new files), I am not sure how much more automated it can get.

Hey Wayne,

Thanks for weighing in on all this. Would you be able to provide a little more detail on how you do this. To be able to upgrade with all those mods in that matter of time sounds amazing!

Thanks,

Marcos

Black Hole

Fri 27th Jul '07, 1:48pm

Upgraded last night. Took me about 2.5 hours to get everything going.

Much better than the 16+ hours it took to upgrade from 3.6.4 to 3.6.7 PL1 last weekend. :(

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 2:07pm

Upgraded last night. Took me about 2.5 hours to get everything going.

Much better than the 16+ hours it took to upgrade from 3.6.4 to 3.6.7 PL1 last weekend. :(

Now you demonstrate why some sort of automated or semi-automated upgrade system is essential.

Peace,
Gene

Ohiosweetheart

Fri 27th Jul '07, 2:34pm

Not necessarily Peg, according to the announcement thread:

Your vBulletin installation will not be broken if you don't apply these changes, but small bugs may be fixed and new functionality may be available by applying these changes. We recommend you apply these changes in the same way that you apply mandatory changes.

For us skin sellers, all template changes are mandatory and for me that equals 415 templates to update over 80+ styles :eek:

John I wasn't really talking to designers. I was talking to typical forum owners/admins. I know that most designers, when creating a skin, do not edit all of the templates in that list. I have a couple of yours, and miners, and a few others, so I know they're not all edited. Of course the ones that are edited in the design of the skin should be taken care of...that should go without saying.

What I was trying to point out was that while it is recommended that ALL templates on both lists be taken care of, it's not mandatory, according to the post, to change the templates on the non-mandatory list. Preferable, yes. But not mandatory.

Of course you and I, as designers, should do all of the edits. I always do. That should go without saying, as well :)

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 2:37pm

Hey Wayne,

Thanks for weighing in on all this. Would you be able to provide a little more detail on how you do this. To be able to upgrade with all those mods in that matter of time sounds amazing!

Thanks,

Marcos

First my style changes are mostly CSS and image related. I don't do template edits unless absolutely necessary.

Second, in most cases, template changes in a point release are bug fixes. So I see if any affect my template changes. There were two here that I decided I needed: editor_toolbar_on and postbit. The only full page template that I have made changes to is FORUMHOME and I didn't care for its change since I don't show that icon anyway. The others would simply update automatically. Someone elsewhere mentioned an undocumented change in the footer template but it is also inconsequential to my needs so didn't worry about it.

Uploaded the files, ran the upgrade script. Copied the changes from editor_toolbar_on over and did the same for the postbit.

Most of the plugins I use these days provide automatic template updates by editing the template cache. Not a practice I agree with completely but haven't rewritten them so their changes are not affected as far as I can tell. If they are then the addon author would need to provide an update.

The idea that you have to compare every single edited template with the changes or review every bug fix report in Project tools when upgrading is outdated. Run the upgrade script and see if everything works. If it does then great. If something is broken fix that issue. I mean you can if you are a perfectionist but really most of it happens automatically.

I shudder when I remember upgrading vBulletin 1.X, 2.X or even 3.X. There were no plugins so everything was a code edit as well. You had to keep notes on every page you changed. I used to have a 4,000 line document on the code changes from SitePoint when I worked on their forums. Then I had to open every file in Beyond Compare and look at the changes in every version, copy my code over, test it and see if it worked still and if it did then upload it to the server. Then I could run the upgrade scripts and worry about template changes (no updated template list or template compare in the early days either).

Today we have plugins and template hooks. We have addons that require no code and no template modifications and a whole slew of automation tools to use during upgrades. Back in the 2.X and the 3.X days, upgrades used to take the average modder hours to take. That shouldn't be the case anymore if you apply your changes smartly and use the tools at hand.

Marcos2

Fri 27th Jul '07, 2:56pm

First my style changes are mostly CSS and image related. I don't do template edits unless absolutely necessary.

Second, in most cases, template changes in a point release are bug fixes. So I see if any affect my template changes. There were two here that I decided I needed: editor_toolbar_on and postbit. The only full page template that I have made changes to is FORUMHOME and I didn't care for its change since I don't show that icon anyway. The others would simply update automatically. Someone elsewhere mentioned an undocumented change in the footer template but it is also inconsequential to my needs so didn't worry about it.

Uploaded the files, ran the upgrade script. Copied the changes from editor_toolbar_on over and did the same for the postbit.

Most of the plugins I use these days provide automatic template updates by editing the template cache. Not a practice I agree with completely but haven't rewritten them so their changes are not affected as far as I can tell. If they are then the addon author would need to provide an update.

The idea that you have to compare every single edited template with the changes or review every bug fix report in Project tools when upgrading is outdated. Run the upgrade script and see if everything works. If it does then great. If something is broken fix that issue. I mean you can if you are a perfectionist but really most of it happens automatically.

I shudder when I remember upgrading vBulletin 1.X, 2.X or even 3.X. There were no plugins so everything was a code edit as well. You had to keep notes on every page you changed. I used to have a 4,000 line document on the code changes from SitePoint when I worked on their forums. Then I had to open every file in Beyond Compare and look at the changes in every version, copy my code over, test it and see if it worked still and if it did then upload it to the server. Then I could run the upgrade scripts and worry about template changes (no updated template list or template compare in the early days either).

Today we have plugins and template hooks. We have addons that require no code and no template modifications and a whole slew of automation tools to use during upgrades. Back in the 2.X and the 3.X days, upgrades used to take the average modder hours to take. That shouldn't be the case anymore if you apply your changes smartly and use the tools at hand.

Awesome...thanks for taking the time to write this out. Well, in my case I have many, many template edits to create the forum I desired so it will take a bit more time :(, but I will use some of your suggestions as well. Thanks.

Dream

Fri 27th Jul '07, 3:35pm

Wannakno

Fri 27th Jul '07, 5:15pm

$template_hook[postbit_start]
<table id="post$post[postid]" class="tborder" cellpadding="$stylevar[cellpadding]" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%" align="center">
<tr>
<if condition="$show['announcement']">
<td class="thead" style="font-weight:normal; border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]" colspan="2">
<img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_statusicon]/post_$post[statusicon].gif" alt="$post[statustitle]" border="0" />
<phrase 1="$post[startdate]" 2="$post[enddate]">$vbphrase[x_until_y]</phrase>
</td>
<else />
<td class="thead" style="font-weight:normal; border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-right: 0px" $post[scrolltothis]>

<a name="post$post[postid]"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_statusicon]/post_$post[statusicon].gif" alt="$post[statustitle]" border="0" /></a>
$post[postdate]<if condition="!$show['detailedtime']">, $post[posttime]</if>
$post[firstnewinsert]

</td>
<td class="thead" style="font-weight:normal; border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-left: 0px" align="$stylevar[right]">
 
<if condition="$show['postcount']">#<a href="showpost.php?$session[sessionurl]p=$post[postid]&postcount=$post[postcount]" target="new" rel="nofollow" id="postcount$post[postid]" name="$post[postcount]"><strong>$post[postcount]</strong></a></if>
<if condition="$show['inlinemod']">
<input type="checkbox" name="plist[$postid]" id="plist_$postid" style="vertical-align:middle; padding:0px; margin:0px 0px 0px 5px" value="$post[checkbox_value]" />
</if>
</td>
</if>
</tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td class="alt2" width="175" style="border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-top: 0px; border-bottom: 0px">

<center><div id="postmenu_$post[postid]">
<if condition="$show['profile']">
<a class="bigusername" href="member.php?$session[sessionurl]u=$post[userid]">$post[musername]</a>

<script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_$post[postid]", true); </script>
<else />
$post[musername]
</if></center>
</div>

$template_hook[postbit_userinfo_left]

<center><if condition="$show['avatar']">
<div class="smallfont">
 <br /><a href="member.php?$session[sessionurl]u=$post[userid]"><img src="$post[avatarurl]" $post[avwidth] $post[avheight] alt="<phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[xs_avatar]</phrase>" border="0" /></a>
</div></center>
</if>

<center><if condition="$post['usertitle']"><div class="smallfont">$post[usertitle]</div></if></center>
<table border="1"><tr><td width="100%">

<center><div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont">$post[crowns]$post[champtext]<br /></div></center>

<center><if condition="$post['joindate']"><div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><div><b>$vbphrase[join_date]:</b> $post[joindate]</div></if></center>

<center><if condition="$post['rank']"><div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><div><div class="smallfont"><b>Img Rank: $post[rank]</b></div></div></if></center>

<center><if condition="$post['field2']"><div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><div><b>$vbphrase[location_perm]:</b> $post[field2]</div></if></center>

<center><div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><b>$vbphrase[posts]:</b> $post[posts]</div></center>
$template_hook[postbit_userinfo_right_after_posts]


<center><if condition="$vboptions['vbookiecashon']">
<div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 4px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><b>$vbphrase[vbookie_vcash]:</b> $post[vbookie_cash]</div></if></center>


</~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ marker MOOD -Aclikyano ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/>
<center><if condition="!empty($post[mood])"><div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d6dee1; margin-bottom: 4px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><b>$vbphrase[_mood_]Mood: <img src="images/mood/$post[mood].gif" border="0" /></div></if></b></center>

<center><if condition="$show['reputation']"><div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><b>$vbphrase[reputation]:</b><FONT COLOR="#006ecd"> $post[reputation]</FONT></div></if></center>

<center><if condition="$show['reppower']"><div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><b>$vbphrase[reppower]:</b><FONT COLOR="#127a12"> $post[reppower]</FONT><br /></div></if></if></center>

<center><div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 4px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><if condition="$show['reputationlink']">

<div style="border: 1px solid #2d3e4e; background-color: #1b242b; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><span id="reputationmenu_$post[postid]"><a href="reputation.php?$session[sessionurl]p=$post[postid]" rel="nofollow" id="reputation_$post[postid]"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/reputation.gif" alt="<phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[add_to_xs_reputation]</phrase>" border="0" /></span></a></div></center>
<if condition="$show['popups']"><script type="text/javascript"> vbrep_register("$post[postid]")</script></if>
</if>
<center><div style="border: 1px solid #2d3e4e; background-color: #1b242b; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><if condition="$show['reportlink']"><a href="report.php?$session[sessionurl]p=$post[postid]" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/report.gif" alt="$vbphrase[report_bad_post]" border="0" /></a></if></center></div>

<center><div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont"><div>$post[icqicon] $post[aimicon] $post[msnicon] $post[yahooicon] $post[skypeicon]</div></div></center></table>

</td>
<if condition="$show['moderated']">
<td class="alt2" id="td_post_$post[postid]" style="border-right: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]">
<else />
<td class="alt1" id="td_post_$post[postid]" style="border-right: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]">
</if>
$template_hook[postbit_messagearea_start]
<if condition="$show['messageicon'] OR $post['title']">

<div class="smallfont">
<if condition="$show['messageicon']"><img class="inlineimg" src="$post[iconpath]" alt="$post[icontitle]" border="0" /></if>
<if condition="$post['title']"><strong>$post[title]</strong></if>
</div>
<hr size="1" style="color:$stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]" />

</if>


<div id="post_message_$post[postid]">$post[message]</div>


<if condition="$show['attachments']">

<div style="padding:$stylevar[cellpadding]px">

<if condition="$show['thumbnailattachment']">
<fieldset class="fieldset">
<legend>$vbphrase[attached_thumbnails]</legend>
<div style="padding:$stylevar[formspacer]px">
$post[thumbnailattachments]
</div>
</fieldset>
</if>

<if condition="$show['imageattachment']">
<fieldset class="fieldset">
<legend>$vbphrase[attached_images]</legend>
<div style="padding:$stylevar[formspacer]px">
$post[imageattachments]
</div>
</fieldset>
</if>

<if condition="$show['imageattachmentlink']">
<fieldset class="fieldset">
<legend>$vbphrase[attached_images]</legend>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="$stylevar[formspacer]" border="0">
$post[imageattachmentlinks]
</table>
</fieldset>
</if>

<if condition="$show['otherattachment']">
<fieldset class="fieldset">
<legend>$vbphrase[attached_files]</legend>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="$stylevar[formspacer]" border="0">
$post[otherattachments]
</table>
</fieldset>
</if>

<if condition="$show['moderatedattachment']">
<fieldset class="fieldset">
<legend>$vbphrase[attachments_pending_approval]</legend>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="$stylevar[formspacer]" border="0">
$post[moderatedattachments]
</table>
</fieldset>
</if>

</div>

</if>

$template_hook[postbit_signature_start]

<if condition="$post['signature']">

<div>
__________________<br />
$post[signature]
</div>

</if>

$template_hook[postbit_signature_end]

<if condition="$show['postedited']">

<div class="smallfont"> <hr size="1" style="color:$stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]" />
<em>
<phrase 1="$post[edit_username]" 2="$post[edit_date]" 3="$post[edit_time]">$vbphrase[last_edited_by_x_on_y_at_z]</phrase>.
<if condition="$post['edit_reason']">$vbphrase[reason]: $post[edit_reason]</if>
</em>
</div>

</if>

</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="alt2" style="border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-top: 0px">

<center><table border="1"><tr><td width="100%">

<div style="border: 1px solid #9d9d9d; background-color: #d0d6da; margin-bottom: 1px" width="100%" class="smallfont">$post[iplogged]
$post[onlinestatus]
<if condition="$show['yellowcard']">
<a href="infraction.php?$session[sessionurl]do=view&p=$post[postid]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/yellowcard.gif" alt="$vbphrase[received_warning]" border="0" /></a>
</if>

<if condition="$show['redcard']">
<a href="infraction.php?$session[sessionurl]do=view&p=$post[postid]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/redcard.gif" alt="$vbphrase[received_infraction]" border="0" /></a>
<else />

</if>

<if condition="$show['infractionlink']"><a href="infraction.php?$session[sessionurl]do=report&p=$post[postid]" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/infraction.gif" alt="<phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[add_infraction_for_x]</phrase>" border="0" /></a></if></div></table></center>
 
</td>
<if condition="$show['moderated']">
<td class="alt2" align="$stylevar[right]" style="border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-left: 0px; border-top: 0px">
<else />
<td class="alt1" align="$stylevar[right]" style="border: $stylevar[cellspacing]px solid $stylevar[tborder_bgcolor]; border-left: 0px; border-top: 0px">
</if>

<if condition="$show['hidetag_thankyou_system']">
<div id="thanks_postbtn.$post[postid]" style="display: inline;">$thanks_postbtn</div>
</if>
<if condition="$post['editlink']">
<img style="display: none" id="progress_$postid" src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/progress.gif" alt="$vbphrase[loading_editor_please_wait]" />
<a href="$post[editlink]" name="vB::QuickEdit::$post[postid]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/edit.gif" alt="$vbphrase[edit_delete_message]" border="0" /></a>
</if>
<if condition="$post['forwardlink']">
<a href="$post[forwardlink]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/forward.gif" alt="$vbphrase[forward_message]" border="0" /></a>
</if>
<if condition="$post['replylink']">
<a href="$post[replylink]" rel="nofollow"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/<if condition="$post['forwardlink']">reply_small<else />quote</if>.gif" alt="$vbphrase[reply_with_quote]" border="0" /></a>
</if>
<if condition="$show['multiquote_post']">
<a href="$post[replylink]" rel="nofollow" onclick="return false"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/multiquote_<if condition="$show['multiquote_selected']">on<else />off</if>.gif" alt="$vbphrase[multi_quote_this_message]" border="0" id="mq_$post[postid]" /></a>
</if>
<if condition="$show['quickreply'] AND !$show['threadedmode']">
<a href="$post[replylink]" rel="nofollow" id="qr_$post[postid]" onclick="return false"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/quickreply.gif" alt="$vbphrase[quick_reply_to_this_message]" border="0" /></a>
</if>
<if condition="$show['moderated']">
<img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/moderated.gif" alt="$vbphrase[moderated_post]" border="0" />
</if>
<if condition="$show['deletedpost']">
<img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/trashcan.gif" alt="$vbphrase[deleted_post]" border="0" />
</if>

$template_hook[postbit_controls]

</td>
</tr>
</table>
$template_hook[postbit_end]


<div class="vbmenu_popup" id="postmenu_$post[postid]_menu" style="display:none">
<table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" border="0">
<tr>
<td class="thead">$post[username]</td>
</tr>
<if condition="$show['profile']">
<tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="member.php?$session[sessionurl]u=$post[userid]">$vbphrase[view_public_profile]</a></td></tr>
</if>
<if condition="$show['pmlink']">
<tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="private.php?$session[sessionurl]do=newpm&u=$post[userid]" rel="nofollow"><phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[send_private_message_to_x]</phrase></a></td></tr>
</if>
<if condition="$show['emaillink']">
<tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="sendmessage.php?$session[sessionurl]do=mailmember&u=$post[userid]" rel="nofollow"><phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[send_email_to_x]</phrase></a></td></tr>
</if>
<if condition="$show['homepage']">
<tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="$post[homepage]"><phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[visit_xs_homepage]</phrase></a></td></tr>
</if>
<if condition="$show['search']">
<tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="search.php?$session[sessionurl]do=finduser&u=$post[userid]" rel="nofollow"><phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[find_more_posts_by_x]</phrase></a></td></tr>
</if>
<if condition="$post['userid'] AND $show['member']">
<tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="profile.php?$session[sessionurl]do=addlist&userlist=buddy&u=$post[userid]"><phrase 1="$post[username]">$vbphrase[add_x_to_buddy_list]</phrase></a></td></tr>
</if>
$template_hook[postbit_user_popup]
</table>
</div>

<if condition="$show['hidetag_thankyou_system']">
<div id="thanks_wrapper.$post[postid]" style="display: $thanks_wrapper_display;">$thanks_wrapper</div>
</if>

THATS WHAT I ADDED IN BLUE BECAUSE YALL SAID THATS WHAT CHANGED..
SO DOES THIS MAKE THE CUSTOM POSTBIT_LEGACY 3.6.8ish?

PLEASE RESPOND :)

---MAD---

Fri 27th Jul '07, 5:40pm

Well, not when you have to do all those manual updates to templates, and make sure they are correct. Five minutes is pushing just the basic process of copying files and running the install or upgrade script.

My argument here, however, is that anything that requires manual labor creates the possibility of mistakes, and the more modifications, the more time-consuming the repair process takes.

Besides, this is the 21st century. Manual installations of software on personal computers was outdated in the last century. It's time to move on.

Peace,
Gene
Sorry but this is automated as well. Template changes are automatic unless you have made changes to them. I myself have a few template changes to 3 or 4 templates, that doesnt take long unless you have lots of skins.

@the guy above - please post in the 3.6 support forums. This thread is not for support as stated millions of times before.

Zachery

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:18pm

Now you demonstrate why some sort of automated or semi-automated upgrade system is essential.

Peace,
Gene

Because his site is signifcantly modified and he probally has a large database and ammount of data taht required backups we should have a _more_ automated system? Sorry gene I think you're on the wrong track here.

smackLAN

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:24pm

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:28pm

Because his site is signifcantly modified and he probally has a large database and ammount of data taht required backups we should have a _more_ automated system? Sorry gene I think you're on the wrong track here.

No, I am totally right, because all I am simply stating that the system of upgrading and installation is a throwback to the 1980s. Much of this can be done with automated updaters and installers. There might be some degree of manual labor for extensive modifications, but even that could be dealt with in most cases.

I think you need to look at the larger picture and consider how one installs software on a Mac or Windows PC, and then you have to wonder why a message board application, which is much, much simpler than Adobe Creative Suite, for example, can't have some kind of standard installation scheme.

Peace,
Gene

hornstar6969

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:37pm

Zachery

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:40pm

No, I am totally right, because all I am simply stating that the system of upgrading and installation is a throwback to the 1980s. Much of this can be done with automated updaters and installers. There might be some degree of manual labor for extensive modifications, but even that could be dealt with in most cases.

I think you need to look at the larger picture and consider how one installs software on a Mac or Windows PC, and then you have to wonder why a message board application, which is much, much simpler than Adobe Creative Suite, for example, can't have some kind of standard installation scheme.

Peace,
Gene
You mean how you download the file and then run the installer?

Seems like the same thing to me.

Upload vBulletin (so download it to your server)
Run the install script (run the installer)

Whats different?

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:40pm

The way I look at it is this:

Vbulletin is already an automatic upgrade script.
The only times it is not is if you have made changes.
If you have made changes, then you should be capable and responsible for upgrading those changes next time round.

No, because you are copying the new files manually to install them. That is not automatic. The only automatic process, sort of, is the script you run for either installation or upgrade.

No, because when you modified any templates, you have to go through a manual process of bringing them current after running that upgrade, and there is where errors can occur.

Aren't you familiar with the way software is installed on a Mac or Windows PC?

Peace,
Gene

Zachery

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:41pm

I'm fairly certin most of us are Gene, the upgrade process is about as automatic as its ever going to get.

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:42pm

I'm fairly certin most of us are Gene, the upgrade process is about as automatic as its ever going to get.

In other words, barely.

I just would prefer to posit a better way to do things, rather than stay in the 1980s. Sorry.

Peace,
Gene

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:43pm

You mean how you download the file and then run the installer?

Seems like the same thing to me.

Upload vBulletin (so download it to your server)
Run the install script (run the installer)

Whats different?

You are manually copying the files, whereas an installer would take care of that for you in a standard PC or Mac software setup process.

Didn't you realize this?

Peace,
Gene

Zachery

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:46pm

I'm sorry you think our upgrade system is so detestable, and I'm sorry that you do not realize how far it has come since 2000.

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:48pm

I think you need to look at the larger picture and consider how one installs software on a Mac or Windows PC, and then you have to wonder why a message board application, which is much, much simpler than Adobe Creative Suite, for example, can't have some kind of standard installation scheme.

You're comparing Apples to Oranges though. Adobe Creative Suite is not a server application where the installer doesn't know anything about the changes to the underlying software. You cannot change the Adobe Creative Suite Software. You can add plugins which are similar to plugins but you cannot go in and modify the code to redesign the windows and everything. It might appear that way because they allow you to "position" pre-existing windows and show certain things within those windows but you're not changing the software.

To do what you want, we would have to encode vBulletin and not allow people to customize the templates but restrict what you can change to fit within our parameters. You can't have both.

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:50pm

You are manually copying the files, whereas an installer would take care of that for you in a standard PC or Mac software setup process.

Didn't you realize this?

Peace,
Gene

So you're going to give us full 100% access to your server at all times so we can automatically upload the files for you?

You want to know why you upload the files via FTP? 99% of all servers would time out and cause errors if you tried to upload 4 MB worth of files from HTTP. Your forum would be worthless if that happened until you manually uploaded the files via FTP. But not only that but you would have CHMOD every single file to 777, which is a huge security risk so the server could even attempt to write them. You're not being realistic in your expectations.

Ohiosweetheart

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:51pm

A little off-topic, but I would buy styles from vb style sellers if they were just CSS and image modifications. The only reason I donï¿½t buy the current offered styles from extreme-pixels etc is because I donï¿½t want to wait for the designers to update their styles before upgrading or having them bail and be stuck with the problem.

If I had any designer blood in me I would sell CSS+images styles in a flash.
This is mostly what mine are, but there are still template edits. It's almost impossible to get around that.

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:53pm

You're comparing Apples to Oranges though. Adobe Creative Suite is not a server application where the installer doesn't know anything about the changes to the underlying software. You cannot change the Adobe Creative Suite Software. You can add plugins which are similar to plugins but you cannot go in and modify the code to redesign the windows and everything. It might appear that way because they allow you to "position" pre-existing windows and show certain things within those windows but you're not changing the software.

To do what you want, we would have to encode vBulletin and not allow people to customize the templates but restrict what you can change to fit within our parameters. You can't have both.

No, that's not it at all.

As I've already said, we're talking of several installation scenarios that would allow one just to run an installer/updater and have the standard setup, and several levels of semi-automatic installation to encompass various levels of mods.

Please review what I'm saying more carefully, because you need to be conscious of the fact that the existing method requires a lot of manual labor that can, in the end, cause people to make errors. I realize there are some people here who believe they are perfect at such things, but I've been in the technology game long enough to know otherwise.

I didn't say it would be easy, but it's taking the lazy way out not to move in that direction.

Peace,
Gene

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:54pm

So you're going to give us full 100% access to your server at all times so we can automatically upload the files for you?

You want to know why you upload the files via FTP? 99% of all servers would time out and cause errors if you tried to upload 4 MB worth of files from HTTP. Your forum would be worthless if that happened until you manually uploaded the files via FTP. But not only that but you would have CHMOD every single file to 777, which is a huge security risk so the server could even attempt to write them. You're not being realistic in your expectations.

Sure I am. There's already an InstantUpgrade plug-in for WordPress that works flawlessly, and does encompass CHMOD scenarios. You need to broaden your horizons.

Peace,
Gene

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:55pm

I'm sorry you think our upgrade system is so detestable, and I'm sorry that you do not realize how far it has come since 2000.

So it's the long journey from awful to mediocre then :)

Peace,
Gene

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 6:58pm

Go download vBulletin 2.3.5 and install it on a test forum. Then go and get a few mods from vBulletin.org and install them. Finally upgrade that to 2.3.11 using the installer provided. Keep the mods operational during this.

Then come back here and tell us that we haven't improved the installer to make it as automatic as possible at this time.

Grover

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:07pm

I thought this discussion was about the 3.6.8. release specifically, but now it has become an endless discussion about the update-process of vB. I agree with all Staff-comments made here : I don't see how it can get any easier/practical then it is at the moment really.

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:10pm

I thought this discussion was about the 3.6.8. release, but now it has become an endless discussion about the update-process of vB. I agree with all Staff-comments made here : I don't see how it can get any easier/practicle then it is at the moment really.

Well, talking about installing or upgrading 3.6.8 is perfectly relevant, don't you think? That's part of the process of dealing with the new version.

Next time you install software on your Mac or PC consider whether that process is easier or harder than vBulletin.

In the end, it's up to the management to stop finding reasons why they can't do it and broaden their horizons to find ways to do it better. It's all about their mental attitudes here. If you believe you can never do anything better, ever, then you won't.

Peace,
Gene

wacnstac

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:26pm

Oh how I wish I would have waited another week to upgrade!

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:27pm

Oh how I wish I would have waited another week to upgrade!

I'm curious. What happened?

Peace,
Gene

V25RJB

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:43pm

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:51pm

hmm im very nervous about updating at the mo.

Im not like a lot of people on here that can spurt out alot of jargon with ease, i have added alot of plugins on my site and also edited things like teh navbar etc. All of this has taken some time as like everyone we all start out noobs and then grow with it, im at the stage of noob at the mo.

If i upgrade will i lose work i have done ie navbar links etc or will they still stay?

thx

You can check the old and new versions of templates to see where the changes are and put them in the 3.6.8 templates. It isn't hard to do, and I've done it more than a few times since last December.

The online documentation explains what steps are involved in far more detail.

But this highlights my ongoing complaints about the process and why a better way is sorely needed.

Peace,
Gene

---MAD---

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:55pm

No, because you are copying the new files manually to install them. That is not automatic. The only automatic process, sort of, is the script you run for either installation or upgrade.

No, because when you modified any templates, you have to go through a manual process of bringing them current after running that upgrade, and there is where errors can occur.

Aren't you familiar with the way software is installed on a Mac or Windows PC?

Peace,
Gene
I am indeed and with that you have to bring in the files - either downloaded or from a CD. That requires manual labour (buying the cd - bringing it home, putting it on the pc and installing).

Same here with vBulletin - you buy the software and then put it on your server and install :).

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 7:58pm

I am indeed and with that you have to bring in the files - either downloaded or from a CD. That requires manual labour (buying the cd - bringing it home, putting it on the pc and installing).

Same here with vBulletin - you buy the software and then put it on your server and install :).

One more time. Putting in a CD, or downloading a single file from a Web site isn't the same as copying several hundred files manually to a folder.

The latter must be done before the upgrade or install script is run on vBulletin.

Sorry that distinction hasn't crossed your mind :)

Peace,
GEne

Merrillizer

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:00pm

I decided to go through with this upgrade. I was weary too because I have a lot of mods. It seems to have gone flawlessly though. I have not run into any errors etc. I have a custom template and many MODS, and its running smoothly.

The upgrader did konk out after step 3, but it says I am upgraded.

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:07pm

One more time. Putting in a CD, or downloading a single file from a Web site isn't the same as copying several hundred files manually to a folder.

You copy the files manually? I just establish an SFTP connection, hit CTRL-A to select all my new vBulletin files, drag them and drop them in the proper location on the server. The SFTP program handles everything else. About 2-3 minutes later it beeps and I run the upgrade script. Don't even have to watch it do anything.

On a VPS or a dedicated server, you can download the files as a .tgz file and simply this more. Just upload the entire compressed file, untar it at the command line and then copy the files into your vBulletin directory.

Ohiosweetheart

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:10pm

It is beyond me why people can't have a discussion on here without getting sarcastic/insulting/demeaning/nasty. :rolleyes:

wacnstac

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:12pm

I'm curious. What happened?

Peace,
Gene

What happened is I have to re-customize all the templates that I just got done customizing a week ago.

pank

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:20pm

A little off-topic, but I would buy styles from vb style sellers if they were just CSS and image modifications. The only reason I don´t buy the current offered styles from extreme-pixels etc is because I don´t want to wait for the designers to update their styles before upgrading or having them bail and be stuck with the problem.

If I had any designer blood in me I would sell CSS+images styles in a flash.

Well it is actually impossible to offer a nicely designed skin using "only" CSS mods. If you design a nice looking skin it does require template edits.

Regarding having to wait for updates.... I'm sorry but if waiting around 24 to 48 hours for 20+ skins to be updated seems long, trust me it's not ;) (I can only speak for myself but if you look at the amount of time it takes me to release updates I'm sure you will agree it is more than acceptable)

Also, after 6+ years of being in business I'd hardly say "bail and be stuck with the problem" is a concern. Quick and accurate updates make for happy customers. That's what I try to achieve (happy customers). You singled my site out so while off topic I did need to address your post.

Thanks.

pank

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:25pm

Originally Posted by PitchouneN64ngc View Post
It seems some templates edits are missing from the announcement, like the 'footer' template (add accesskey="9" to "Contact Us" link)

Correct :) Can somebody "please" confirm this is the only change in the footer template? I've done a file compare between the old and new version and this is all that I can find. But..., I'd feel better hearing 100% that this is the only change ;)

Thanks!

The footer template is still not showing on your announcement (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237919).
Could somebody from vB please just acknowledge that this is the only change in the footer?

Thanks :)

---MAD---

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:27pm

One more time. Putting in a CD, or downloading a single file from a Web site isn't the same as copying several hundred files manually to a folder.

The latter must be done before the upgrade or install script is run on vBulletin.

Sorry that distinction hasn't crossed your mind :)

Peace,
GEne
Just as easy. You select all the files and hit "upload" and then click "Yes overwrite". Takes 2 seconds to do that and then you just let the upload take place.

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:27pm

You copy the files manually? I just establish an SFTP connection, hit CTRL-A to select all my new vBulletin files, drag them and drop them in the proper location on the server. The SFTP program handles everything else. About 2-3 minutes later it beeps and I run the upgrade script. Don't even have to watch it do anything.

On a VPS or a dedicated server, you can download the files as a .tgz file and simply this more. Just upload the entire compressed file, untar it at the command line and then copy the files into your vBulletin directory.

OK, you manually unpack the files and copy them over. Just as I said :)

I mean, I did something similar. I just logged into the site via Transmit, a great Mac FTP client, dropped them into the proper folder, and selected the option to replace the existing files and walked away till it was done, and then finished the process.

For me it didn't take long, because I only have minor mods with a few templates to deal with.

However, this is a manual labor process that can be simplified.

Be nice folks and consider the possibilities.

Peace,
Gene

---MAD---

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:30pm

OK, you manually unpack the files and copy them over. Just as I said :)

I mean, I did something similar. I just logged into the site via Transmit, a great Mac FTP client, dropped them into the proper folder, and selected the option to replace the existing files and walked away till it was done, and then finished the process.

For me it didn't take long, because I only have minor mods with a few templates to deal with.

However, this is a manual labor process that can be simplified.

Be nice folks and consider the possibilities.

Peace,
Gene
So what, you want it to magically appear on your server :s?

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:30pm

So what, you want it to magically appear on your server :s?

Here's the short answer:

WordPress

InstantUpgrade plug-in.

Peace,
Gene

CMGU

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:46pm

thank u
nice job!
Congrats

Wayne Luke

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:47pm

Here's the short answer:

WordPress

InstantUpgrade plug-in.

Peace,
Gene
One big difference here...

Every single wordpress download for that version is exactly the same. With vBulletin, disregarding the need for HTTP login, each and every download is different. The ZIP file isn't created until you click that download button and every file is dynamically added. So your download file is different from mine. Each different license creates a unique download.

Who knows in the future it might be possible, it isn't right now.

smackLAN

Fri 27th Jul '07, 8:53pm

The footer template is still not showing on your announcement (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237919).
Could somebody from vB please just acknowledge that this is the only change in the footer?

Thanks :)
I would like to see the answer to this as well, please.

Miko

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:17pm

The footer template is still not showing on your announcement (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237919).
Could somebody from vB please just acknowledge that this is the only change in the footer?

Thanks :)

Ditto :)
Add me to the list of users that would like to see the answer to this as well :)

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:34pm

One big difference here...

Every single wordpress download for that version is exactly the same. With vBulletin, disregarding the need for HTTP login, each and every download is different. The ZIP file isn't created until you click that download button and every file is dynamically added. So your download file is different from mine. Each different license creates a unique download.

Who knows in the future it might be possible, it isn't right now.

That seems to be rather an awkward system, and surely there are better ways to ensure that each user has a genuine licensed copy.

Peace,
Gene

smackLAN

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:45pm

That seems to be rather an awkward system, and surely there are better ways to ensure that each user has a genuine licensed copy.

Peace,
Gene
Gene, why don't you take this to the features request forum and stop crowding this release thread with criticisms...there are those here who wish to discuss this release and need answers to pressing issues.

El_Muerte

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:47pm

Here's the short answer:

WordPress

InstantUpgrade plug-in.

Peace,
Gene

Talking about a dangerous feature.
That requires write access to vBulletin files and directories for the user the webserver is running.

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:48pm

Gene, why don't you take this to the features request forum and stop crowding this release thread with criticisms...there are those here who wish to discuss this release and need answers to pressing issues.

Excuse me, but discussion about the installation system indeed applies to this release, since that is one of the components one has to deal with in making it work properly.

Certainly I gather that, so far, most of the problems and/or potential problems involve side-effects of a manual installation setup that creates a strong possibility for error.

Burying this critical issue so people do not have to deal with it won't solve the problem.

Peace,
Gene

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:50pm

Talking about a dangerous feature.
That requires write access to vBulletin files and directories for the user the webserver is running.

And if you are installing files in that folder, and replacing and/or removing the files that are there from the previous version, don't YOU require write access to that folder?

Peace,
Gene

Floris

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:54pm

Thank you Gene (and the others posting on the matter) for your feedback and suggestions on this matter, the developers will take it under consideration for their next R&D cycle.

El_Muerte

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:55pm

my webserver doesn't need write access, just me

smackLAN

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:56pm

Excuse me, but discussion about the installation system indeed applies to this release, since that is one of the components one has to deal with in making it work properly.

Certainly I gather that, so far, most of the problems and/or potential problems involve side-effects of a manual installation setup that creates a strong possibility for error.

Burying this critical issue so people do not have to deal with it won't solve the problem.

Peace,
Gene
Excuse me, but this is hardly a problem for the vast majority of vbulletin users. If you think there is a better mousetrap, build it...otherwise please take it out of this thread so that other's can have their need's met.

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 9:57pm

Thank you Gene (and the others posting on the matter) for your feedback and suggestions on this matter, the developers will take it under consideration for their next R&D cycle.

That's all I can ask for. I'm just sad to see that some people resent when someone comes in and tries to suggest a better way. That's not how products are improved.

In the end, I don't think a more automated installation solution is going to be an easy thing to do, and I never suggested otherwise. It will require a lot of thought and testing and help by lots and lots of testers to make sure it is as effective and trouble-free as possible.

Have a nice day, folks.

Peace,
Gene

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 10:04pm

my webserver doesn't need write access, just me

I hope you and your Web server have a great life together :rolleyes:

Peace,
Gene

Scott MacVicar

Fri 27th Jul '07, 10:21pm

I hope you and your Web server have a great life together :rolleyes:

Peace,
Gene
Webservers traditionally run as the user nobody on unix and does so for every virtual host on a server. In order for the webserver to server and execute your files it requires a read permission.

If you also give it the write permission then yes you can write and modify files, the problem is you give everyone else who can execute scripts on the server write permission. This means that every other customer of your hosting company could potentially write to your files.

There have been plenty of examples in the past in which an insecure script runs and modifies other customers boards. There was a phpBB worm a few years ago that did exactly that.

Having a vBulletin upgrade script that automatically modifies your files is a really bad idea, if anything its going to lead to more complaints of defacing, hacking and potential problems on boards. Say half upgrades being performed because the write permission was missing.

Yes you can use things like phpsuexec and fastcgi to change the user a script executes as but not all of these are full proof and I doubt most hosts are going to use these.

We have considered these and the security concerns were enough to put us off any sort of auto installer, but we may revisit certain aspects of it in the future.

Gene Steinberg

Fri 27th Jul '07, 10:28pm

Webservers traditionally run as the user nobody on unix and does so for every virtual host on a server. In order for the webserver to server and execute your files it requires a read permission.

If you also give it the write permission then yes you can write and modify files, the problem is you give everyone else who can execute scripts on the server write permission. This means that every other customer of your hosting company could potentially write to your files.

There have been plenty of examples in the past in which an insecure script runs and modifies other customers boards. There was a phpBB worm a few years ago that did exactly that.

Having a vBulletin upgrade script that automatically modifies your files is a really bad idea, if anything its going to lead to more complaints of defacing, hacking and potential problems on boards. Say half upgrades being performed because the write permission was missing.

Yes you can use things like phpsuexec and fastcgi to change the user a script executes as but not all of these are full proof and I doubt most hosts are going to use these.

We have considered these and the security concerns were enough to put us off any sort of auto installer, but we may revisit certain aspects of it in the future.

With the WordPress InstantUpgrade plug-in, it runs direct from within the folder containing your WordPress installation, so it is presumed you already have write access because of its presence there.

Yes, I do appreciate the considerations and the dangers here, but I'm sure you folks are smart enough to figure out some innovative solutions.

Peace,
Gene

pank

Fri 27th Jul '07, 11:42pm

Ditto :)
Add me to the list of users that would like to see the answer to this as well :)

I would like to see the answer to this as well, please.

Well I just ran another file compare and that is the only change I can find. I'd say it's safe to update your skins ;)

Floris

Sat 28th Jul '07, 12:13am

so it is presumed you already have write access because of its presence there. This is a false assumption as you have access putting the files there
when you ftp it in. Running it from the browser is a different user and therefor does not have the same permissions.

Gene Steinberg

Sat 28th Jul '07, 12:22am

This is a false assumption as you have access putting the files there
when you ftp it in. Running it from the browser is a different user and therefor does not have the same permissions.

How about checking the InstantUpdate plug-in and seeing how it works, OK?

It's hard to discuss a subject when the other party hasn't done his or her homework :)

Peace,
Gene

Silver_2000

Sat 28th Jul '07, 12:45am

How about checking the InstantUpdate plug-in and seeing how it works, OK?

It's hard to discuss a subject when the other party hasn't done his or her homework :)

Peace,
Gene
Gene

You understand that VB doesnt run on a pc or a mac right ?
And that it is written to support dozens of operating systems ?

And that no PC upgrade/installer I have EVER seen in the 15-20 years Ive been doing this takes ANY care for any EDITS made to OEM code. Not that more than 1% of the pc users can or do, edit dll files or executables. Even in the cases were the programs rely on editable registry or ini files for function and appearance, the installers universally overwite all those files.

As was clearly stated previously its a bad argument - Not that improving the install process wouldn't be a good thing and maybe Internet Brands engineers and $$ could help with that - just that your analogy and expectations are off.
My $0.02
Doug

PS I follow the steps outlined by one of the VB folks previously for the 6-8 VB installs I have to upgrade. I simply look at the templates on a one by one basis to see if the changes effect me - if not - I dont bother - if they do I use beyond compare to migrate my edits to the new code. - One change that would help MY PERSONAL workflow would be an easy way to dload ALL The templates and the def templates as text files for the ROOT style, and perhaps a beyond compare like way to move changes from the def template to the current template, that way I could save some time doing the compares... BUT Thats a personal thing based on the workflow that I have chosen to use.

Gene Steinberg

Sat 28th Jul '07, 2:47am

Gene

You understand that VB doesnt run on a pc or a mac right ?
And that it is written to support dozens of operating systems ?

And that no PC upgrade/installer I have EVER seen in the 15-20 years Ive been doing this takes ANY care for any EDITS made to OEM code. Not that more than 1% of the pc users can or do, edit dll files or executables. Even in the cases were the programs rely on editable registry or ini files for function and appearance, the installers universally overwite all those files.

As was clearly stated previously its a bad argument - Not that improving the install process wouldn't be a good thing and maybe Internet Brands engineers and $$ could help with that - just that your analogy and expectations are off.
My $0.02
Doug

PS I follow the steps outlined by one of the VB folks previously for the 6-8 VB installs I have to upgrade. I simply look at the templates on a one by one basis to see if the changes effect me - if not - I dont bother - if they do I use beyond compare to migrate my edits to the new code. - One change that would help MY PERSONAL workflow would be an easy way to dload ALL The templates and the def templates as text files for the ROOT style, and perhaps a beyond compare like way to move changes from the def template to the current template, that way I could save some time doing the compares... BUT Thats a personal thing based on the workflow that I have chosen to use.

You understand that I never said otherwise, right?

Can people talk about this subject without insulting my intelligence, please? I have been in the tech business since the 1970s, around the time Apple was founded, and I have never before seen a situation where I made a legitimate suggestion to improve a product, and got responses of this nature.

You understand, also, that I also made a suggestion to accommodate various degrees of template edits, right?

Or maybe not.

Peace,
Gene

Miko

Sat 28th Jul '07, 3:11am

Well I just ran another file compare and that is the only change I can find. I'd say it's safe to update your skins ;)

Thanks Pank, :)
Just checked several times with filemerge and it's the only other change that was left out from the announcement.

hornstar6969

Sat 28th Jul '07, 3:38am

You understand that I never said otherwise, right?

Can people talk about this subject without insulting my intelligence, please? I have been in the tech business since the 1970s, around the time Apple was founded, and I have never before seen a situation where I made a legitimate suggestion to improve a product, and got responses of this nature.

You understand, also, that I also made a suggestion to accommodate various degrees of template edits, right?

Or maybe not.

Peace,
Gene

There is nothing much more me or you can do except suggest new ways with clear detail and post those in a new thread, ideally suggestions forum. also VB understands that it would be ideal to have the installer as easy, less manual as possible, noob friendly etc.

If they can make it easier...great! it is however good the way it is currently, and much improved from previous versions.

I can imagine that it will be improved in the future, but I can also imagine lots more things coming before then ;) as a software company they need to prioritize both for customer needs and profit.

I'm sure someone of your experience already understands all this. So lets just leave it where it is currently, and see what they can come up with in the near future. :o

El_Muerte

Sat 28th Jul '07, 5:30am

How about checking the InstantUpdate plug-in and seeing how it works, OK?

It's hard to discuss a subject when the other party hasn't done his or her homework :)

Well I did do my homework. InstantUpdate requires that the webserver has write privileges to the files, after the update it will try to revoke the write privileges to make things "safer" again.
However, there is an other issue: file ownership, but there are also some (nasty) tricks to change file ownership without requiring root/admin access.

Grover

Sat 28th Jul '07, 7:41am

It is beyond me why people can't have a discussion on here without getting sarcastic/insulting/demeaning/nasty. :rolleyes:

Gene, why don't you take this to the features request forum and stop crowding this release thread with criticisms...there are those here who wish to discuss this release and need answers to pressing issues.

Exactly. That's what I tried to get across with:

I thought this discussion was about the 3.6.8. release specifically, but now it has become an endless discussion about the update-process of vB. I agree with all Staff-comments made here : I don't see how it can get any easier/practical then it is at the moment really.

A discussion about the upgrade process of vBulletin in general does not belong here, IMHO. So yes, please start a discussion in the suggestions forum- where it belongs. I expect only 3.6.8. specific things to be discussed in here. Thanks for listening.

kollam003

Sat 28th Jul '07, 7:55am

Installed Thanks

Gladius

Sat 28th Jul '07, 7:58am

Using the server and/or site environment as a reason not to come up with a more automated installer/upgrade script is a rather weak excuse. It's akin to limiting vB to PHP and MySQL 4, just because nearly everyone is running that. But is Jelsoft doing that? No, obviously they realize that eventually everyone will switch over to newer versions, so support for them is already built it now.

Jelsoft isn't leaving the PHP/MySQL version requirements the same either. Are the minimum requirements still the same now as they were 5 years ago? I didn't think so.

Just as you are expected to have at least versions this and that installed for vB to work, you'd be expected to meet a few conditions in your site/server environment that a test script could easily verify. If you didn't or couldn't meet the requirements, you wouldn't be able to use the auto installer/upgrader until you made sure that your server/site environment supported it. Either by doing it yourself, or bugging your host for it.

Worst case scenario, the situation would be as it is now for those who couldn't provide a working environment for such a script. But all of us who could and would do it would save a significant amount of time in the long run, and would certainly update more frequently if the whole process was much less of an inconvenience for modified boards than it is now.

I probably don't need to emphasize the well-known fact that most people do what's convenient and easy first, while everything that isn't is saved for later. Much, much later in many cases when it comes to upgrading modified boards. Most of you probably know what I'm talking about, unless you have so much free time on your hands that upgrading your boards and reapplying all the modifications every few weeks is an exercise that you (still) don't consider to be more than a bit inconvenient.

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy that Jelsoft patches early and often. But I do know where Gene is coming from and I definitely agree that the process could be much better. Yes, it wouldn't work for everyone, but then again, nothing ever does.

AlexanderT

Sat 28th Jul '07, 8:15am

Here's the short answer:

WordPress

InstantUpgrade plug-in.

Peace,
Gene

InstantUpgrade plug-in is written by a third-party and not officially supported by the Wordpress folks. So if you are looking for a feature like this for vBulletin, go to vBulletin.org and ask for support.

AlexanderT

Sat 28th Jul '07, 8:48am

That's all I can ask for. I'm just sad to see that some people resent when someone comes in and tries to suggest a better way. That's not how products are improved.

You continue to fail to see that what you may consider a "better way" or an improvement is the contrary for other people.

Gene Steinberg

Sat 28th Jul '07, 11:00am

You continue to fail to see that what you may consider a "better way" or an improvement is the contrary for other people.

Well, I would find it difficult to believe that something that would involve fewer steps and reduce the possibility of error would not be an improvement.

The arguments I've seen so far have actually not addressed that, but have largely explained why it is difficult or impossible to make it happen.

One of the reasons that I keep my vBulletin forum running with few mods is because I do not want to go through the drudgery of having to manually address masses of template changes on every update. The fact that the forum looks good to our visitors without much change from the standard layout is helpful, of course, but it's also true that we are a small company and everyone does five jobs already. A sixth shouldn't be necessary :)

That's a more legitimate form of discussion, so let's leave it there, OK?

Peace,
Gene

Gene Steinberg

Sat 28th Jul '07, 11:01am

InstantUpgrade plug-in is written by a third-party and not officially supported by the Wordpress folks. So if you are looking for a feature like this for vBulletin, go to vBulletin.org and ask for support.

What I was suggesting, actually, was to look at this plug-in for ideas about automating the upgrade process. It was never about who wrote or supported it.

Peace,
Gene

Gene Steinberg

Sat 28th Jul '07, 11:03am

Well I did do my homework. InstantUpdate requires that the webserver has write privileges to the files, after the update it will try to revoke the write privileges to make things "safer" again.
However, there is an other issue: file ownership, but there are also some (nasty) tricks to change file ownership without requiring root/admin access.

Indeed that's a legitimate issue that even the author of InstantUpdate is attempting to address in a way that is fair and secure for everyone. But the fundamental idea is worth exploring. I never suggested it was anything more than a good idea.

Peace,
Gene

Scott

Sat 28th Jul '07, 2:03pm

Thanks for the upgrade, service and support.

aberg

Sat 28th Jul '07, 2:04pm

As usual perfect update from 3.6.7pl1 to 3.6.8.
All mods working, no problems detect.
Thanks guys for the time and work you do

eJM

Sat 28th Jul '07, 2:36pm

... I'm just sad to see that some people resent when someone comes in and tries to suggest a better way. That's not how products are improved.
I read this discussion because I am interested in any issues or comments about the 3.6.8 release. Yes, comments about the installation are included, but you have gone over-board in your insistence in making this a primary focus of the thread.

Your ideas have merit. I'm sorry you have gotten some of the reactions you have from staff. But further discussion of the auto-installer routine you are hammering away at doesn't have anything to do with this release. Even if they miraculously took your suggestion and implemented it over night, it still wouldn't be about the 3.6.8 release, it would be another release.

So please, do as others have already suggested. Move this discussion to the appropriate venue. I'd love to see it come about and soon. But I am tired of my subscription to this thread bringing me back here to read the arguments you are having with others when they have nothing to do with THIS release.

Thanks,

Jim

Gene Steinberg

Sat 28th Jul '07, 2:53pm

I read this discussion because I am interested in any issues or comments about the 3.6.8 release. Yes, comments about the installation are included, but you have gone over-board in your insistence in making this a primary focus of the thread.

Your ideas have merit. I'm sorry you have gotten some of the reactions you have from staff. But further discussion of the auto-installer routine you are hammering away at doesn't have anything to do with this release. Even if they miraculously took your suggestion and implemented it over night, it still wouldn't be about the 3.6.8 release, it would be another release.

So please, do as others have already suggested. Move this discussion to the appropriate venue. I'd love to see it come about and soon. But I am tired of my subscription to this thread bringing me back here to read the arguments you are having with others when they have nothing to do with THIS release.

Thanks,

Jim

I have never insisted that it be the primary focus. That happens because of some of the very strange reactions you've read to very simple, sensible suggestions.

I'm happy to move on, as I've been for a while, if others will let it be.

Peace,
Gene

Ohiosweetheart

Sat 28th Jul '07, 3:02pm

Got my upgrade done - and all 94 templates! Piece of cake :D

al7or

Sat 28th Jul '07, 3:14pm

do i have to keep the vBulletin 3.6.7 Calendar event XSS Fix after upgrading to 3.6.8 or should i uninstall it.

Dream

Sat 28th Jul '07, 3:23pm

This is mostly what mine are, but there are still template edits. It's almost impossible to get around that.
Why changing CSS requires template edits?

I would be very interested to see how a style created as you describe would have no template edits. In regards to waiting for updates or being bailed on, I don't think you would find that to be a problem with any of the major skin resellers ;)
See above question.

No, that's not it at all.

As I've already said, we're talking of several installation scenarios that would allow one just to run an installer/updater and have the standard setup, and several levels of semi-automatic installation to encompass various levels of mods.

Please review what I'm saying more carefully, because you need to be conscious of the fact that the existing method requires a lot of manual labor that can, in the end, cause people to make errors. I realize there are some people here who believe they are perfect at such things, but I've been in the technology game long enough to know otherwise.

I didn't say it would be easy, but it's taking the lazy way out not to move in that direction.

Peace,
Gene
I´m all for an easier method of upgrading, as I´m a pratical guy.

An installer application could be created, that would have the proper file writing permissions. It would download the files for you, with your license number, make the database changes and all the work. The only problem is you would need to have a dedicated server to run it.

That´s the only way I can imagine doing this properly.

As for some of the replies to Gene I saw in this thread, he was very polite with his feedback.

Well it is actually impossible to offer a nicely designed skin using "only" CSS mods. If you design a nice looking skin it does require template edits.

Regarding having to wait for updates.... I'm sorry but if waiting around 24 to 48 hours for 20+ skins to be updated seems long, trust me it's not ;) (I can only speak for myself but if you look at the amount of time it takes me to release updates I'm sure you will agree it is more than acceptable)

Also, after 6+ years of being in business I'd hardly say "bail and be stuck with the problem" is a concern. Quick and accurate updates make for happy customers. That's what I try to achieve (happy customers). You singled my site out so while off topic I did need to address your post.

Thanks.
I don´t understand why you designer guys think the default template is so ugly it needs to be changed. I like the default templates, I don´t want to change them just to get some new colors.

R1lover

Sat 28th Jul '07, 3:57pm

I don´t understand why you designer guys think the default template is so ugly it needs to be changed. I like the default templates, I don´t want to change them just to get some new colors.

I agree and I have all of my sites and all of my skins using the standard templates. Of course I have a few of them where I have to add some code back in after an upgrade, but it's very minor and pretty easy to do.

I have done about 20 different skins with this method and all of my customers have been happy so far.

CrashPush

Sat 28th Jul '07, 6:34pm

I updated to 3.6.8 with no issues and everything seems to working fine. Good job by the development team on this.

Scott MacVicar

Sat 28th Jul '07, 7:23pm

Well, I would find it difficult to believe that something that would involve fewer steps and reduce the possibility of error would not be an improvement.

The arguments I've seen so far have actually not addressed that, but have largely explained why it is difficult or impossible to make it happen.

One of the reasons that I keep my vBulletin forum running with few mods is because I do not want to go through the drudgery of having to manually address masses of template changes on every update. The fact that the forum looks good to our visitors without much change from the standard layout is helpful, of course, but it's also true that we are a small company and everyone does five jobs already. A sixth shouldn't be necessary :)

That's a more legitimate form of discussion, so let's leave it there, OK?

Peace,
Gene
We did explore an automatic patching system and we decided that it wasn't viable at the time. I've already stated that we'll re-visit some aspects in the future.

Now please stop going on about this within this thread, if you feel the desire to discuss this more then open up another thread in suggestions and feedback. It's not that we don't appreciate the feedback it just feels like it's kind of detracted from the point of this thread.

al7or

Sat 28th Jul '07, 7:41pm

hello
i want ur help plz

i upgraded my version to 3.6.8 it was ok

but i hv some problem with some tamplets like

foorer
forumdisplay
forumhome
navbar
postbit
postbit_legacy

so they r needed to be updated

how can i update them so?

Gene Steinberg

Sat 28th Jul '07, 7:50pm

We did explore an automatic patching system and we decided that it wasn't viable at the time. I've already stated that we'll re-visit some aspects in the future.

Now please stop going on about this within this thread, if you feel the desire to discuss this more then open up another thread in suggestions and feedback. It's not that we don't appreciate the feedback it just feels like it's kind of detracted from the point of this thread.

I have no desire to discuss it further, except where it is necessary to handle personal attacks and other incendiary nonsense. Otherwise, I'm done.

Peace,
Gene

Ohiosweetheart

Sat 28th Jul '07, 8:24pm

Why changing CSS requires template edits?

I don't believe I said it did. However in an attempt to give a client who has paid me for a custom css-based theme, I do attempt to make it as attractive and "one-of-a-kind, as possible. Sometimes that means doing a few template edits, such as making the postbit somewhat more attractive, or installing a mod or two, etc.

pank

Sat 28th Jul '07, 9:11pm

Thanks Pank, :)
Just checked several times with filemerge and it's the only other change that was left out from the announcement.

No problem Miko :)

smackLAN

Sat 28th Jul '07, 9:12pm

Why changing CSS requires template edits?

If you are going to create a custom CSS setting say using division id's, just how would you place that setting in the template without editing it?;)

pank

Sat 28th Jul '07, 9:13pm

*** edited ***

My bad... I should have checked the bug reports before posting :confused:

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/project.php?issueid=22727

squidstir

Sun 29th Jul '07, 8:55am

Upgraded 8 heavily modded forums from 3.6.1 to 3.6.5 with no problems. Thanks, this is why I keep buying Vbulletin.

Centrix

Sun 29th Jul '07, 10:12am

Im new to upgrading, and I dont have time to read all 15 pages of this thread + all other threads to find my answer

but ehm...

I have quite some add-ons installed on my 3.6.7PL1 and I was wondering that if I upgrade, if I lose all these? cause its really worth 12+ hours (no kidding) to reinstall everything all over again and do template changes, and configurate them again and so on.

mikeholohan

Sun 29th Jul '07, 11:18am

I am having trouble on two forums since I upgraded to 3.6.8... my sessions keep timing out, i go to do something and when I try and post it tells me I am not registered or am logged out...

I made the same two changes to both boards, I added one html file that is just static and doesn't use a database or require you to be logged in and I upgraded both boards...

Has anyone got any ideas what it might be?

Mike.

dutchbb

Sun 29th Jul '07, 2:46pm

It's a safari feature, hence the 'offtopic'.
Ok. Hopefully it can be done for other browsers too some day.

concepts

Sun 29th Jul '07, 2:52pm

haha, I just read through this entire forum.. and got a little sidetracked for a moment after hitting a series of "whines and complaints". However, I have now made it to the end. I feel like I just ran a marathon!

haha.

Appreciate all the work you guys do.

Endurer

Sun 29th Jul '07, 3:15pm

I will be upgrading my board by tomorrow. Good job devs.

Centrix

Sun 29th Jul '07, 4:05pm

LEARNER29

Sun 29th Jul '07, 4:27pm

This thread is for discussing the release of vBulletin 3.6.8.. (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/project.php?s=&do=issuelist&projectid=6&sortfield=lastpost&sortorder=&issuetypeid=bug&appliesversionid=g7&issuestatusid=0)

:(
I was disappointed to see that I only found out about this new release while accidently accessing my admin panel.

May I know what (apart from paying $160 for the script) do I need to do to get immediate email notice about any future releases?

Travlur

Sun 29th Jul '07, 4:37pm

Howell

Sun 29th Jul '07, 5:30pm

Can anyone tell me what the actual template changes are for the following?

modifysignature
Minor cosmetic changes to allow a more flexible text editor size.My template has been customized and so cannot be reverted to default.

Thanks, :D

Zachery

Sun 29th Jul '07, 5:45pm

Can anyone tell me what the actual template changes are for the following?

My template has been customized and so cannot be reverted to default.

Thanks, :D
If it were customized you could, if you couldn't revert it in the software, its not customized.

Howell

Sun 29th Jul '07, 5:54pm

If it were customized you could, if you couldn't revert it in the software, its not customized.

Okay sorry I meant I don't want to revert it to default but would like to make sure the customized version has the relevant template changes. :o

Gladius

Sun 29th Jul '07, 6:21pm

LEARNER29

Sun 29th Jul '07, 6:37pm

Centrix
Absolutely. When will VB techies learn to include simple English advice notes like "Nothing in this package should affect add-ons or templates". Why should we have to trawl through endless banter to try and find out?

VB: Blah blah out. Simple "yes" or "no" in please

BTW Last time I posted such a response I got the friends of techies out to lambast me saying I shouldn't have a server account!

Oh my God..... you sent me to wikipedia to search for the meaning of "banter"

I felt ashamed of myself teaching English and not knowing myself what "banter" means.

"Banter" is the art of jovial and frivolous conversation and behavior

good to know. thank you.

now back to the issue of the vbulletin team...... I agree, sometimes you have to go through lots of unwanted readings to reach the info you are looking for....

LEARNER29

Sun 29th Jul '07, 6:39pm

No notice of the 3.6.8 release has been sent out yet apparently. I imagine most of us would want to be notified of new releases right away. You don't need to construct separate mail notices or anything. A simple mail with a link to the release notes here would do the trick just fine.

As it is now, Jelsoft seems to send out mail notices with a delay, and in the case of minor releases sometimes not at all. IIRC, the 3.6.6 and 3.6.7PL1 mail notices were combined.

I beg your pardon ?

We paid $160 for this script ..... is not this worth an email ???

are topic replies notices (which we are all receiving) more important than sending out an email to all paying members saying there is a new release of vb???

give me a break......

LEARNER29

Sun 29th Jul '07, 6:42pm

Oh my God..... you sent me to wikipedia to search for the meaning of "banter"

I felt ashamed of myself teaching English and not knowing myself what "banter" means.

"Banter" is the art of jovial and frivolous conversation and behavior

good to know. thank you.

now back to the issue of the vbulletin team...... I agree, sometimes you have to go through lots of unwanted readings to reach the info you are looking for....

BTW, surprisingly, this is the first time I remember searching on Google for "define: " and I get no wiki-results though a wiki-result does exist.

strange... maybe this article was added recently to wikipedia.. or that this statement was added after the last google indexation of wiki.

even searching in wikipedia itself does not lead directly to an explanation of the meaning of the word "banter" but rather to an article which includes this word, (thus you will have to push Ctrl F to find "banter")

eJM

Sun 29th Jul '07, 6:49pm

Please tell me you were just kidding about being an English teacher. You need an English teacher. :eek:

tekguru

Sun 29th Jul '07, 6:59pm

Guys as you all seem old hands at upgrading could some of you read and comment here (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1398698&posted=1#post1398698) to see if my 3.6.7PL1 to 3.6.8 upgrade plan seems viable?

Cheers in advance. New to the upgrade procedures and want to get it right!

Zachery

Sun 29th Jul '07, 7:06pm

can someone answer this please?
For future refrence is you have upgrading questions it should go in the upgrades forum :)

Any plugins should not be lost or removed, some may require updating however.

LEARNER29

Sun 29th Jul '07, 7:08pm

Please tell me you were just kidding about being an English teacher. You need an English teacher. :eek:

am no English teacher, but a teacher of English. lol.

you are way too old to convince.. but teaching English as a second language does not mean you *have* to know what banter is.....

yada yada.....

Loco.M

Sun 29th Jul '07, 7:20pm

I haven't updated yet, I don't really see any reason too ?

tekguru

Sun 29th Jul '07, 7:37pm

For future reference is you have upgrading questions it should go in the upgrades forum :)

Any plugins should not be lost or removed, some may require updating however.

Blush I missed there was one :)

The plugins I'm running seem fine so far in the test system.

So is the theory good as to how to do the upgrade?

Onimua

Sun 29th Jul '07, 7:45pm

I haven't updated yet, I don't really see any reason too ?
If you are planning on installing the Blog, you need it.

In general it's just a maintenance release. It's always good to upgrade to the latest version.

Scott MacVicar

Sun 29th Jul '07, 8:06pm

I beg your pardon ?

We paid $160 for this script ..... is not this worth an email ???

are topic replies notices (which we are all receiving) more important than sending out an email to all paying members saying there is a new release of vb???

give me a break......
We usually do emails the following Monday after a release just so we check that it went to plan, I know we'll most likely updated the package with a few minor fixes tomorrow. Specifically a database error in the moderator log when you try to limit it to a name or action and the editor window for IE when you have lots of large width smilies.

These didn't come up in testing or private beta testing and need to be fixed.

Onimua

Sun 29th Jul '07, 8:09pm

We usually do emails the following Monday after a release just so we check that it went to plan, I know we'll most likely updated the package with a few minor fixes tomorrow. Specifically a database error in the moderator log when you try to limit it to a name or action and the editor window for IE when you have lots of large width smilies.

These didn't come up in testing or private beta testing and need to be fixed.
In that case, to we just re-upload the new files after or what?

eJM

Sun 29th Jul '07, 8:34pm

am no English teacher, but a teacher of English. lol.

you are way too old to convince.. but teaching English as a second language does not mean you *have* to know what banter is.....

yada yada.....

I wasn't referring specifically to "banter." I looked at everything, including your lack of proper punctuation, capitalization, use of ....... dots - everything. It's pretty bad. I hope you aren't actually getting paid to teach English.

Jim

Joshyyy

Sun 29th Jul '07, 9:15pm

Updated Thanks Guys :)

Ohiosweetheart

Sun 29th Jul '07, 9:36pm

GEEEZES do y'all REALLY have to lower yourselves to personal insults in a release thread??

Grow up!

MJM

Sun 29th Jul '07, 10:19pm

I wasn't referring specifically to "banter." I looked at everything, including your lack of proper punctuation, capitalization, use of ....... dots - everything. It's pretty bad. I hope you aren't actually getting paid to teach English.

Jim
Actually it's not even necessary to know how to write another language to learn how to speak it. (as learner29 mentioned - am no English teacher, but a teacher of English. lol.)
... punctuation, capitalization, use of ....... dots ... can be used more extensively in the spoken language but depends more whether you want to sound like a "native" of a given region.

Similarily many of us don't know PHP but don't absolutely need to, to use this software.

I'm one of those lucky ones who has never in 6 years had to perform a single upgrade. I leave this up to my more significant other, who btw also doesn't know PHP.
I remember though in the good ole days that upgrading took a week and involved a high level of nervousness.
Things have significantly improved with the latest.
Still, we've kept things fairly conservative ... 15 template revisions this time ... though my partner always revises/updates each one, even if it is not compulsory.

Chousho

Sun 29th Jul '07, 11:34pm

I wasn't referring specifically to "banter." I looked at everything, including your lack of proper punctuation, capitalization, use of ....... dots - everything. It's pretty bad. I hope you aren't actually getting paid to teach English.

Jim

Keep in mind this poster also refers to himself as "the grump", haha.
I don't think his English is so bad; I can at least understand his sentences.

Hmm, I wonder...

*goes to check PT if any bugs have been found in 3.6.8 yet*