Immoral mod released by a VB team member – Floris

[mihai11]

To my dissapointment, Floris released a VB mod allowing people to manipulate VB statistics. (adding more users, posts aso)

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=115661

Are you thinking about the consequences ?

1) What if a very big number of webmasters are going to install this ? Users are not stupid: they will realize what is going on. In time they will find that there is a pattern: VB-powered boards are managed by cheaters. The net result: using the VB software will make people wonder if you are a cheater or not.

2) What about the users of this board that chosed to be honest ? In my opinion this mod is disrespectfull to them. You should have a policy, forbidding this kinds of mods from being released on your officially supported forums. There would be no problem if this kind of "mod" would be available on some obscure website. The problem is that this mod is released on VB.org by a core VB team member.

This is not a selling point for VB, or for the VB team. Your reputation might be affected. Besides the clear imagine problems on the long term, there is also the problem of morality, which clearly is a strange concept to some.

Please consider removing this mod and updating your policy regarding mods.


Best regards,
Razvan M.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

As this is posted on vbulletin.org, the discussion should also be done there.

PS Work released by Floris (or any other jelsoft staff member) is something they release on a personal note at vbulletin.org, and it has nothing to do with Jelsoft.

[JakeS]

As Mac said:

By: Floris Fiedeldij Dop & Huanga & Colin F

Yes, so not just floris, it was by another 2 people who I don't even know :).

[Dean C]

Colin F is also on the vBulletin team. Nevertheless, it is immoral and I would not do it but if he didn't do it, someone else would...

[JakeS]

Colin F is also on the vBulletin team. Nevertheless, it is immoral and I would not do it but if he didn't do it, someone else would...He may be a member of vB staff, but at the same time they gave him a free licence, so in this case he can use vBulletin.org just like we can, and he can submit them just like we can, after all, being a staff member doesn't stop him being a person now does it?

[Floris]

I was a customer before I was asked if I had an interest in becoming part of the team. Staff members do not get special discounts or free licenses.

[Onimua]

I love how someone says something (which I'm not even going to start on with the inanity of it) that everyone else begins to pile in with rumors, speculation, and other stuff that just doesn't help anyone.

[MrNase]

I don't see the problem there. Nobody is FORCED to use the Add-on, it's totally up to the Administrator wether he wants real statistics or not.

Is your next step to blame the guy who invented the knife just because a knife can be used to kill someone?

[JakeS]

I don't see the problem there. Nobody is FORCED to use the Add-on, it's totally up to the Administrator wether he wants real statistics or not.

Is your next step to blame the guy who invented the knife just because a knife can be used to kill someone?YES! (Joke)

Floris, I thought staff had licences for free? well since they don't my point would have to be:

"He may be a member of vB staff, but at the same time he has a licence, so in this case he can use vBulletin.org just like we can, and he can submit them just like we can, after all, being a staff member doesn't stop him being a person now does it?"

but my point still stands to be true.

[Mazinger]

Just to made it clear, what If it was another member who has released this mod?

Will you request removing this mod? I don't think so.

It's clear that your problem is a vBulletin Staff (Floris) who has released this mod not with the mod itself. And as told in some posts here, he's doing as any regular member on vb.org. Not necessarily to be represention Jelsoft at that time.

[ManagerJosh]

Even more to the point, Jelsoft nor Floris is holding a gun to your head to install it or anyone else's for that matter. It's a decision by the license holder whether to falsify stats.

[mihai11]

Is your next step to blame the guy who invented the knife just because a knife can be used to kill someone?

Fine manipulation. But still, just a manipulation. The "knife" is used in 99.9999% of the cases to cut something and in 0.0001% of the cases for murder. This mod is used in 99.999% of the cases for cheating, while it is debatable that there is a purpose for the reamining 0.0001% of the cases.


It's a decision by the license holder whether to falsify stats.
Let's analyze some things:
1) Why not allow free heroine everywhere ? If people decide to use it that's their problem.
2) Why are people in Asia debating the future robotics laws ? Specifically they want to prohibit the creation of killer droids in the future.
3) What is the problem with cloning ? Why make laws to regulate this ?
4) Why stop spamming ? For some people it is the only source of income that they have.

Please stop with the non-sense about the human race that is very mature, correct and above all intelligent and unwilling to steal what it can. A lot of people would like to do a lot of things, but they are not allowed mainly because the community will suffer because of their actions.

What is the community gaining with this hack ? There is a small percentage that will gain, but most people will have only to loose if this hack is implemented on a large scale.

Other participants in this thread have noticed that if Floris wouldn't do it, then somebody else would. That is correct, but if VB.org would not allow such plugins on its site (policy change required) then this would be a strong barrier for the development and spread of such hacks.

Floris, I have other great ideas for you to develop:

1) develop a forum ripper. One that will work VERY smoothly. You have insider knowledge in VB. I am sure that you can make a very good job and, at the same time, you would help all the people starting with a forum. They will just rip other people's forums and that's it. This is much better than cheating with statistics.

If somebody will say anything against you, then you will quote "ManagerJosh": "It's a decision by the license holder whether to … " use it or not.

2) Another great idea: make a tool that will allow anybody to crack any forum that doesn't have the latest security patches. These tools should be easy to use: just click "next", "next" … and then have the option to delete all the messages and the users of the target board.

Just to make it funnier: release this within hours after the release of a VB security patch. A lot of people find it very attractive (in general) to destroy something. You will make all those people happy.


Once you go down this road, one question becomes obvious: where should you stop ? What should be allowed and what should not be allowed ? The boundaries of "should" and "should not" can become blurry. I recommend not pursuing such a route at all.




Regards,
Razvan M.

[Wayne Luke]

If you don't want to use the mod, then don't use it. No one is forcing you to use it. I find other Admin practices such as reading PMs to be immoral. I don't practice it. I can't stop them. They have to answer to their own ethical and moral dilemnas.

With all the issues out there, it seems like this is a simple little petty argument. If the feature was built into the default feature set then I would see more of a problem. As it is not, I don't even know why this discussion was being allowed here. Comparing this to mods that would allow you to exploit other sites just goes beyond the inane. Therefore I am closing this thread.