The Great Moderation Mystery

[feldon23]

I'd like to know whether vBulletin 3.6 will improve post/thread moderation?

I just looked in my Thread/Post Moderation queue and there's stuff in there with cobwebs on it that I swear never showed up as New Posts and certainly there was no way to find out about these new posts unless I went into this part of the AdminCP.

We really need:
In the AdminCP under 'There is a new version of vBulletin...' and 'there are X out-of-date templates...' how about 'There are X posts/threads in the moderation queue'?
E-mail address to notify of moderated posts/threads.
Per-user setting E-mail this user (mod/admin) of moderated posts/threads in forums that they moderate.
Indicate posts/threads are in moderation in navbar template for administrators and possibly moderators for forums where the posts are located (might require an additional query).
Highlight moderated posts/threads in a different color in showthread.
Highlight threads that contain moderated posts in a different color in forumbits.
Make 'Moderated Post(s)' a clickable link on forumbits that shows just the moderated posts in a thread.
Show moderated posts/threads to the original poster but in a different color and with some kind of visual indicator that their thread/post is under review
Split 'Validate' option in 2 -- 'Validate w/ Notify', 'Validate Silently'. I don't even know if users are notified by e-mail that their posts have been approved? If not, then this should be optional with these 2 settings.Right now I am getting an e-mail a week from new users who post the same message 2-3 times and each time their post disappears and then out of disgust, they give up and never come back to the forum.

Maybe there is some setting I am missing? Apologies if there isn't already a big thread about this subject.

P.S. It's unfortunate that the 'Under Consideration' forum is no longer being used (as per a tiny footnote in a post by Scott) to indicate to us what features are getting the attention...

[merk]

Sounds excellent.

[Grover]

I'd like to know whether vBulletin 3.6 will improve post/thread moderation?

I just looked in my Thread/Post Moderation queue and there's stuff in there with cobwebs on it that I swear never showed up as New Posts and certainly there was no way to find out about these new posts unless I went into this part of the AdminCP.

Yup, since I use VBulletin, I also always wondered why those thread/posts showed up there. I have lots of thread/posts in the Moderation Queue inside my ACP, but the thing is : I never did enable thread/post Moderation on my site. What is the reason that those threads/posts show up there, because I expect that section to be empty?

(Edit: ) I just found this interesting thread : Thread going into Moderate Queue? (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138854)

where Jake explains:


Well if you edit a thread and uncheck the Thread is visible option, then it will go into the mod queue.
Never occured to me this option, but this could indeed explain why I have those threads inside the Moderation Queue.

Zaon remarks:


Now, anyway to disable just that option from happening since none of the Mods has permission to access the moderation queue since we never use it?
I agree 100%. Although Jake provides us with a template edit in the above thread I would like to suggest this to be implemented by default in VB 3.6

It's not logical : I disabled Thread/Moderation on my board, but still there's this option when you edit a thread to move a thread to the Moderation Queue. I don't know for sure, but this may be the main reason why I have so many threads in my (disabled...) queue? I have just tested this Thread is visible option and indeed those threads go straight to the Moderator Queue... were only I (as admin) can found out about them.

If the devs could implement a solution to get rid of this option, then Feldon's points are not nessecary. ;) At least not if we have Thread/Post Moderation (really) disabled then.

[Grover]

P.S. It's unfortunate that the 'Under Consideration' forum is no longer being used (as per a tiny footnote in a post by Scott) to indicate to us what features are getting the attention...
(Offtopic) .. but I do agree on this as well. I also read the remark of Scott and I just wondered why this is not communicated to us (customers) in a more clearer way? From the beginning I never quite understood the meaning of the 'Under Consideration'-forum (so for me it's not unfortunate that it is no longer in use, since I never understood 'how' it was used in the first place). A sticky posting inside that forum explaining the means of it, would have helped. The same goes for the fact that this forum is -apparently- no longer in use.

Just my thoughts,

[feldon23]

Under Consideration never told us which version of vBulletin would contain that feature, only that it was on their To Do list compared to some suggestions they don't feel should be included in the product.

[Scott MacVicar]

All features get attention, I read the forum about once an hour while I'm working and read every new thread. I reply where appropriate and take note of things where appropriate.

The vast majority of suggestions being made recently are duplicates and we've already reviewed.

The visible flag moves them into the moderation queue rather than just disappearing into the ether.

" 'There are X posts/threads in the moderation queue'?" Thats already there if you enable the quick stats.

The making the moderated thread icon on forumdisplay sounds reasonable.

The colour changing suggestions aren't something we'd consider adding.

Showing moderated threads to users would be resource intensive as we'd no longer be able to fetch just 25 threads since there is a chance that a thread would be moderated and a user might complain that they have selected 25 threads per page but since 6 are moderated they only see 19.

The emails are something that sound reasonable but would need to ensure that if an admin makes a thread invisisble and then makes it visible again that it doesn't send yet another email.

Note: Just because I say reasonable it doesn't mean that it will be implemented just that I dont see any problems with them.

[feldon23]

Showing moderated threads to users would be resource intensive as we'd no longer be able to fetch just 25 threads since there is a chance that a thread would be moderated and a user might complain that they have selected 25 threads per page but since 6 are moderated they only see 19.
There are also XX threads in this forum that you posted but which will not be visible to other users until they have been reviewed by a site administrator or moderator.

My real complaint is that in showthread/postbit, it's not a template conditional but hard-coded into the PHP to hide or show posts that are moderated. This makes it impossible without, I am guessing, a rather involved Plugin to implement the feature I wanted.

[Shining Arcanine]

I really think that reported posts should go into a moderation queue with the option of sending emails to moderators. That way a moderator checking the queue will not see things that have already been taken care of unlike now where a moderator checking his mail box will see things that have been resolved.
Showing moderated threads to users would be resource intensive as we'd no longer be able to fetch just 25 threads since there is a chance that a thread would be moderated and a user might complain that they have selected 25 threads per page but since 6 are moderated they only see 19.Scott, I do not consider myself to be an expert with MySQL and I have not looked at the database structure but could you just have the database resolve that by having it select posts where they are in a certain forum and (they are not moderated or (they are moderated and are posted by the user)) and then limit the number of threads returned by LIMIT 0, 25 or whatever is set in the AdminCP? This would not be a bad feature to have provided there is an on/off switch.

[Scott MacVicar]

It is possible its just resource intensive to show the 25 threads always, we could just show 19 and continue what we're doing as the moderated checks and userid checking would be done on the PHP side and not the MySQL side.

[feldon23]

Another one of my friendly users (after posting the same message 4 times and then random B.S. posts 25 other times after that):


Why can't I post anything in the forum? I registered and went through all the procedures correctly. I can log in, write a message, see the preview, submit, get thanked for posting, get sent back to the forum - and there is no posting! It won't work anywhere, in a thread or a new thread. Maybe it just doesn't work for Mac users. But anyway, I wish I never went to the trouble of registering, since I can't do any more than a guest.

[feldon23]

and another:


I'm confussed on how to post a message

What do other site admins do to notify users that their posts will be moderated/approved first?

[ManagerJosh]

I'm still hoping this feature request gets implemented.

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?p=866384

[Scott MacVicar]

As has been said the query for that will yet another join on a table and will invalidate the MySQL query cache since its dependant on a single userid.

When a user posts they are told in the redirect that there posts are being moderated.

If these are simple people awaiting account activation then a big notice in the header seems more appropriate.

[merk]

I havent yet run into the moderation problem, but I've only just fixed the bug [in my implmentation] that was allowing newly registered members to post straight away :)

Im thinking ill add a notice on newthread/newreplt stating that since you're a new user your posts will be moderated (not appear) until approved by the site admins

[Scott MacVicar]

what about QR?

Though I like a moderation notification on newreply / newthread.

[merk]

Same modification? ;)

[feldon23]

As has been said the query for that will yet another join on a table and will invalidate the MySQL query cache since its dependant on a single userid.So this extra query and join is run for all admins and moderators? That's how they're able to see that a thread or post contains moderated posts?

A header patch would be fine for me if this simply can't be done. "You have created a thread in this forum/post in this thread which is under review and will appear once a moderator has approved its content."


When a user posts they are told in the redirect that there posts are being moderated. It says IF administrators have set it up as such THEN their posts MAY be moderated. It doesn't indicate if the logged in user's posts are moderated, nor does it indicate if the forum they've posted into is moderated. This message also flashes by in less than 2 seconds.

I'm just astounded that nobody else has brought this up in the past. How do people handle spam? My solution was moderate a user's first 2-3 posts over the first 24 hours before Promoting them to Registered (Trusted).

[merk]

I'm just astounded that nobody else has brought this up in the past. How do people handle spam? My solution was moderate a user's first 2-3 posts over the first 24 hours before Promoting them to Registered (Trusted).

Thats what I thought i had implmented, but forgot to make sure the custom forum permissions were setup correctly.

Now that it is, im sure we'll run into that problem :)

[Freddie Bingham]

It says IF administrators have set it up as such THEN their posts MAY be moderated. It doesn't indicate if the logged in user's posts are moderated, nor does it indicate if the forum they've posted into is moderated. This message also flashes by in less than 2 seconds.

I'm just astounded that nobody else has brought this up in the past. How do people handle spam? My solution was moderate a user's first 2-3 posts over the first 24 hours before Promoting them to Registered (Trusted).
That redirect needs to be changed to reflect the true status of the post based on whether or not the post is visible. I will change that tomorrow actually as it is something I've meant to do.

3.6 already has some improvements to make it easier for moderators to deal with moderated and deleted posts/threads.

[merk]

What if redirects are disabled?

[Freddie Bingham]

We can force specific redirects to override the admincp setting.

[merk]

Nice :D

[digitalpoint]

I really think that reported posts should go into a moderation queue with the option of sending emails to moderators. That way a moderator checking the queue will not see things that have already been taken care of unlike now where a moderator checking his mail box will see things that have been resolved.Ditto!!!!!!!!

That's my biggest issue with vBulletin right now. You get a reported post that ends up being reported by 10 different people, and you have 10 moderators, you just sent out 100 unique emails for the same post and no one knows if it's already been resolved or whatever...

[feldon23]

Freddie: thanks and great to hear!

I actually made a template mod to Quick Reply so if a user has 0 posts, they see a message "Since this is your first post, it will be subject to review before..." but some users are using the New Thread and Go Advanced buttons and not seeing that template mod. I tried to recreate the template mod in those templates to no avail. I assume it would require a nasty query to have $show[will_be_moderated] available to us in select templates so we can do some nice template conditionals?

If I understand a Warning system correctly, if X users report a post, it will be unpublished until it can be reviewed by a moderator, right?

[feldon23]

I've added this to my header template:


<if condition="is_member_of($bbuserinfo, 2)">
<br />
<table class="tborder" cellpadding="$stylevar[cellpadding]" cellspacing=
"$stylevar[cellspacing]" border="0" width="100%" align="center">
<tr>
<td class="alt1">
You are now a registered member of our Forum.
If you have a question or comment, please feel free to post it.

Where did my post go?
To control spam, we have instituted Post Moderation. Your very
first post(s) will not be visible until an Administrator or
Moderator approves them. Please check back later to see if
your message has been approved. Once you have been approved,
you will be able to freely post in the forum and have access to
other areas of the forum.
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</if>

[Shining Arcanine]

Feldon23, you might want to make that message appear after their first post. Otherwise they might not post at all.

[feldon23]

I couldn't come up with a conditional that worked for New Thread and Advanced Editor.

[Freddie Bingham]

We can force specific redirects to override the admincp setting.Upon further review, we already force the redirect to be displayed if post moderation is enabled. Just need to split that phrase into two distinct phrases. One that says 'Thanks' and one that says 'Thanks, your post is moderated.'

[merk]

I couldn't come up with a conditional that worked for New Thread and Advanced Editor.

Why wont a simple is_member_of work? (Where X is the usergroupid of the membergroup that turns off moderation for the user)


<if condition="is_member_of($vbulletin->userinfo, 2) AND !is_member_of($vbulletin->userinfo, X)"></if>

[Shining Arcanine]

The idea is to show it to them if they are a member of usergroup two and have made at least one post.

[merk]

That wont work since the users postcount doesnt increment with moderated posts until they are moderated.

I dont see why you shouldnt inform the user straight up. (being on pages where they post, not on every page)

[MediaHound]

I, too, find the moderation system / notification system to the users that their posts need moderation a bit prehistoric.
The users get discouraged that their posts don't show up and they don't know why. They repost, they shoot off emails, they pull hair, etc.
I will upgrade now from 3.5 RC2 to 3.6 and wish myself good luck.
I found this thread from a link on this thread (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179476).

[feldon23]

That wont work since the users postcount doesnt increment with moderated posts until they are moderated.

I dont see why you shouldnt inform the user straight up. (being on pages where they post, not on every page)
I had to modify the templates newreply and the quickreply area to inform people that their posts may be moderated. I had a hard time figuring out which variable to use to figure out IF that user's posts will be moderated. I settled for matching their usergroup. Would be nice to see a built in caution at the top of the form "Your posts will be approved by a moderator before becoming visible." Of course some forums will want to turn this off since this kind of warning does discourage some people to post.

[Grover]

The users get discouraged that their posts don't show up and they don't know why. Another example of the missing scope on the USER. I really hope VB 3.7 or VB 4.0 will address all these user-unfriendly issues.

[BethanyCampbell]

I've seen some harsh examples in the past...

Beth

[MediaHound]

I've seen some harsh examples in the past...

Beth

Hi, can you elaborate?

[MediaHound]

I had to modify the templates newreply and the quickreply area to inform people that their posts may be moderated. I had a hard time figuring out which variable to use to figure out IF that user's posts will be moderated. I settled for matching their usergroup. Would be nice to see a built in caution at the top of the form "Your posts will be approved by a moderator before becoming visible." Of course some forums will want to turn this off since this kind of warning does discourage some people to post.

If you had some code to share with instructions, that would be so kind of you
:D

What if clause(s) did you use? Where did you place them? etc, etc ...

TIA