What if VB uses more resources in the server????

[ang2el]

I had a talk to a hosting company and they say that VB uses more resource than other programs thats why sometime we have to remove the VB from the server which might be troublesome to you, here is the detail:


In some setups VB does use more resources than we allow a single account to use. The resources aren't disk space or bandwidth related, but processor and memory resources instead.

When a single account uses a large amount of CPU or memory resources, it
causes a slowdown on the server, adversely effecting other customers on that same server. In severe cases, it can cause the server to become unresponsive and be rebooted.

It would be difficult to say whether your VB setup would cause issues on our server or not. Extra modules or addons would increase the amount of resources required to run the forum. The number and frequency of visitors would also effect the resources used. We do offer a 30 day money back guarantee that you can take advantage of to see how your forum would run on our servers.

Is this true, if that so than which host do you think is the best for the vbulletin.

[KingSpade]

If you are starting a new forum, resources really should not be an issue unless you plan to instantly have 50-100 users online at a time upon opening. If you move slowly and gradually and you are running 0-20 to 30 users online, you really shouldn't have a problem.

Are you looking to start up a new community or move an existing one? If moving, what are your stats?

[ang2el]

I have regular user of ~25, but I wanted to know the best hosting provider for the vbulletin.

Which hosting is the best, although I am happy with yahoo now, Does anyone has any experience regarding better hosting than yahoo.

However you might reccomend me but later on I will know the truth thats why, Please no promotional link, I need your true experience and help in this regards.

[TygerTyger]

I have no experience of Yahoo, but you should have no problems with 25 users online at once. How heavily modded is your board?

The decent hosts will have a page where you can check out server statistics, including load, so ask Yahoo where theirs is, if you have one. If 'load' doesn't advance beyond 5 or so, you're fine. It shouldn't even be that, vB is not a heavy resource program unless it's got a stack of mods.

[KingSpade]

Honestly, Yahoo really wasn't made for hosting vBulletin and you'd probably get a better hosting experience from the likes of ASmallOrange.com, Eleven2.com or ServerPlex.com.

Either of the 3 would probably work wonders over what you currently have with Yahoo.

[eva2000]

you have to understand most shared hosting servers are overcrowded beyond what is really optimal so web hosts need to try and keep cpu/server resources under control

also host may not have optimally configured apache/mysql/php for vB and other php/mysql forum like applications which do essentially do alot of reading and writing to the database although some web host these days seem to be better at optimising their servers for such applications than say 2-3 yrs ago

you probably used a slightly higher percentage of cpu resources than other web sites on the same server, so you will get targetted for removal even though there maybe other vB forum sites on the same shared server

[ChrisLM2001]

However you might reccomend me but later on I will know the truth thats why, Please no promotional link, I need your true experience and help in this regards.

If you want the truth about hosting, goto Webhostingtalk.com and do a search on asmallorange.com (ASO).

ASO has very tuned shared servers that's ideal for vB (it even uses eAccelerator and FastCGI <-- almost unheard of on a shared server), and aren't inclined to deny you service for just 25 to 50 members online at a time.

Then when you reach say, 60+ members it's ideal to move over to a VPS solution (so you can better prepare yourself for the jump to dedicated -- it'll teach you how to run your own server and not break your piggy bank in the process).

You'll always want a little more resources than what you'd normally have for those peaks that come, just to be on the safe side (and not shut down the forum if the load/bandwidth are over the limit). Sure you can probably get away with 200 members being online at a time on a shared server, but they're going to suffer. So keep a little left over (at least 10%) so they can actually enjoy your forum.

BTW, I've used dedicates from The Planet and Servermatrix, shared hosting from Fluidhosting (<-- one of the few Internap bandwidth providers), and now ASO. I chose ASO because of the features of their servers (I needed eAccelerator); they have a very good rep (which is everything in hosting you'll find out); and because they're now located in Atlanta. :)

Chris

[TygerTyger]

Atlanta, interesting....is that a good thing because of the slightly lower ping times to Europe? Why is being in Atlanta a plus for you?

Doesn't matter all that much I guess, just curious :)

[ChrisLM2001]

For those living in the Southeast, pings of this speed is ideal...



Reply from 63.247.xx.xxx: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=50
Reply from 63.247.xx.xxx: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=50
Reply from 63.247.xx.xxx: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=50
Reply from 63.247.xx.xxx: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=50
Ping statistics for 63.247.xx.xxx:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 12ms, Maximum = 14ms, Average = 13ms

Next door pings and packet routing (half the wait than from The Planet, too). ;)

Besides, I like helping Georgia businesses grow.

Chris

[TygerTyger]

Wow, that really is next door. Nice :D

[ang2el]

ASO (www.asmallorange.com (http://www.asmallorange.com)) has very good review, I am afraid if ASO has kept people in WebHostingTalk is it the best ?

Which one is the best hosting provider for VB???

[ChrisLM2001]

If you want to know something about the quality of ASO's customer service, here's an example.

I'm trying to learn how to setup the rulesets in APF (not an easy feat for a beginner). Well, in the process of trying to learn what XYZ does with such little documentation for a vps (it works differently than a dedicated), I've locked myself out twice today. :x

This is an example of the first response...



Well, if you do, just let us know. We can disable APF for you if it
locks you out :)


On the second lockout...



I restarted sshd and apf, let us know if you need anything else.


They have a lot of patience for those learning the ropes of managing their own server. Something I can't say is the same from some other hosts (who are picky from anything from using their support ticket desk -- bye, bye sending emails; to making every ticket a new ticket [they're handling their service inhouse so don't have the $2/per ticket deal]).

The price is fair, and it's nothing to give ASO a try and see why folks like ASO so much for yourself.

Chris

[Tony]

Then when you reach say, 60+ members it's ideal to move over to a VPS solution (so you can better prepare yourself for the jump to dedicated -- it'll teach you how to run your own server and not break your piggy bank in the process).What's involed with that? I'm moving to a new host and thinking of going vps.

[simsim]

Well, it is obvious that ASO has a good rep on all serious webhosting discussion forums. But I'm wondering why they're so expensive in comparison with similar packages at their competetors?

Just compare:

1. ASO Super shared:

4500MB space
100GB Bandwidth
30$/month

2. Site5 MultiSite Unlimited:

12GB space
150GB Bandwidth
21.95$/month (16.95$ if you paid yearly)

3. Host Gator's Swamp shared:

10GB space
100GB Bandwidth
14.95$/month

And there are more hosts...

Well, I'm going to launch my own forum sooner, & I'm still looking fro the appropriate host. If ASO is worthy the higher price they offer I'll host with them. But I need also to be convinced of the features I get from paying more than "regular".

simsim

[ChrisLM2001]

Just ask the hosts at WHT what they think of getting 12GB of disk space for $21.95/month really means.

Hosts have their own pay scales and know the price of equipment; bandwidth (at wholesale); frontend and backend upkeep. If they say it can't be done at the above price, it can't be done (without a net loss <-- which isn't how to run a business, and why host businesses tend to fail).

Look at it this way. Take a 120GB HD and break it down to 10/12GB slices. If you charge someone $15/mon for it that'll give you $150/mon. Subtract say $30 to 40/mon for the rent of an extra HDD, and that'll give you from $110 to $120 profit a month. Now add the cost for a Dual Xeon (to get RAID 5 expansion of disks)...around $250/mon at the cheapest with a cPanel license, or more likely around, $499 with 5 disks.

So the disk slices of the above can bring in only $120 for a 120GB disk. Multiply it by 2 and that'll bring in $240 (just under the pay of a server rent <-- see about operating under a net loss?). With 5 disks that'll translate to $600/mon. The owner will come back with around $200/mon profit. There are extras that can help (extra prices for extra IPs, space, etc.), but can you see why the returns are real ify at best?

That model is trying to compensate with volume sales, which means they'll be swamped and must rely on outside service to run the servers (which also cuts into their profit ratio).

In contrast, ASO's package price is a little higher, but it's more realistic and shows they are in this business for the long-haul. Pricing and disk size reflects it.

Chris

[MRGTB]

If you want the truth about hosting, goto Webhostingtalk.com and do a search on asmallorange.com (ASO).

ASO has very tuned shared servers that's ideal for vB (it even uses eAccelerator and FastCGI <-- almost unheard of on a shared server), and aren't inclined to deny you service for just 25 to 50 members online at a time.

Then when you reach say, 60+ members it's ideal to move over to a VPS solution (so you can better prepare yourself for the jump to dedicated -- it'll teach you how to run your own server and not break your piggy bank in the process).

You'll always want a little more resources than what you'd normally have for those peaks that come, just to be on the safe side (and not shut down the forum if the load/bandwidth are over the limit). Sure you can probably get away with 200 members being online at a time on a shared server, but they're going to suffer. So keep a little left over (at least 10%) so they can actually enjoy your forum.

BTW, I've used dedicates from The Planet and Servermatrix, shared hosting from Fluidhosting (<-- one of the few Internap bandwidth providers), and now ASO. I chose ASO because of the features of their servers (I needed eAccelerator); they have a very good rep (which is everything in hosting you'll find out); and because they're now located in Atlanta. :)

Chris

I have to agree there. A Small Orange come here for information, and as said above they have geared there shared hosts with vBulletin users in mind. This is something the bear in mind when looking for a host, as I also have had my board removed at one point due to heavy resources being used. Better to find a host that is more geard towards vB users, rather than a shared host who is only happy if you use pre-installed phpBB

[ang2el]

In contrast, ASO's package price is a little higher, but it's more realistic and shows they are in this business for the long-haul. Pricing and disk size reflects it.

If your talking interms of those thing then why don't they reduce their charge??????????????

[ChrisLM2001]

Because to reduce it would mean they'd be like some "fly by night" hosts.

Can only cut so much fat out, before a business becomes anorexic, then starve to death.

For the price and features (just don't see shared servers with eAccelerator and FastCGI, you only expect it on your own dedicated), their pricing is almost a steal in itself.

Chris

[singh]

Hi,

Im a total fish when it comes to php, MySQL, servers and other stuff. Although I have completely fallen in love with the vBulletin forum idea.

I am in the start up phase of a forum right now, and I am already sick of my host (www.surftown.se (http://www.surftown.se)). They have constant SQL-problems, so I can not reach my site. THe databse error I get is "due to database overload" or something similar. My site is very much yet under construction, so there are just a handful of users (<10) that helps me with continuing feedback of how to improve it. So that I tend to get a lot of database errors due to overload is a joke.

( The two errors I get all the time is 1. "mysql_connect(): Lost connection to MySQL server during query" and 2. "mysql_connect(): Too many connections" ).

I have money, enthusiasm and I am eager to learn. I dont care if it cost $30/m or $300/m to have a decent host. Although I am allergic to running a site that people can not visit due to poor hosting combined with poor support (often refering to totally irrelevant problems that soemone else is responsible for).

Thus I am looking for the best host no matter what it costs. I am aiming for 1000 accountholders at the forum within 1 year, so I might as well get hosting right away that can manage those numbers.

I have no idea what the difference is between dedicated servers and not dedicated. I have no idea what it means, in a technical sence, that a server is shared. I am simply looking for the best.

My questions to you are:

1. ASO seems to get high ranking here. Can they meet my demands? Since my SQL and php knowledge is so poor I need premium support.
2. Does it matter that they are in USA and my forum (and 99.9% of the users) will be over seas in Sweden/Europe.
3. What kinf of package from ASO do you recommend for a vBulletin based forum with 1000 accounts?
4. Do ASO have php safe mode on or off. Can I choose? Which should I prefer? My guess is Id prefer 'off' so I dont have to store attached files in the database, but I dont know...
5. If it s bad thing to have hosting in USA and running the site in Europe. What is the best host you can ever think of in Europe? Please - once again - dont give me your opinions about what is best if you compare it to the cost etc. I am looking for the best, to what ever cost.

Thanks for helping me out!

[singh]

Another thing.

Seems as ASO run php 4.4, and not 4.4.1. Is this correct? Saw some sticky thread about vb-staff recommending 4.4.1 for security purposes.

[ChrisLM2001]

Read why it's not being updated at this time...

http://forums.asmallorange.com/index.php?showtopic=4956&hl=php+4\.4\.1

This is normal in production servers, as such upgrades can be a nightmare.

Those with VPS and Dedicate plans can upgrade at anytime.

Chris

[snowlion]

how about lunarpage, they save we can setup vbulletin forum but will need high server resource , i'm afraid it will have more issue when running forum
does anyone have an idea ?, please tell me more

[simsim]

Just ask the hosts at WHT what they think of getting 12GB of disk space for $21.95/month really means.

Hosts have their own pay scales and know the price of equipment; bandwidth (at wholesale); frontend and backend upkeep. If they say it can't be done at the above price, it can't be done (without a net loss <-- which isn't how to run a business, and why host businesses tend to fail).

Look at it this way. Take a 120GB HD and break it down to 10/12GB slices. If you charge someone $15/mon for it that'll give you $150/mon. Subtract say $30 to 40/mon for the rent of an extra HDD, and that'll give you from $110 to $120 profit a month. Now add the cost for a Dual Xeon (to get RAID 5 expansion of disks)...around $250/mon at the cheapest with a cPanel license, or more likely around, $499 with 5 disks.

So the disk slices of the above can bring in only $120 for a 120GB disk. Multiply it by 2 and that'll bring in $240 (just under the pay of a server rent <-- see about operating under a net loss?). With 5 disks that'll translate to $600/mon. The owner will come back with around $200/mon profit. There are extras that can help (extra prices for extra IPs, space, etc.), but can you see why the returns are real ify at best?

That model is trying to compensate with volume sales, which means they'll be swamped and must rely on outside service to run the servers (which also cuts into their profit ratio).

In contrast, ASO's package price is a little higher, but it's more realistic and shows they are in this business for the long-haul. Pricing and disk size reflects it.

Chris
Quite interesting argument Chris. It explains a lot about the Hosting business realities.

Though, I'd have considered your argument very true if the comparison had been between ASO & what you've called "fly by night" hosts. This description does not fit in the case of Site5 for example, which is a very well-known & expanding leader in the hosting business, & which have been in the business for years now.

I searched for more information after your quoted reply, and I found that ASO is a reseller for "The Planet" host. I think that's the reason for their "higher" prices, though I don't know wether Site5 is a reseller or they have their own datacenters.

Despite of that, I really beleive that the 4.5GB/100GB balance is much more reasonable than the 12GB/150GB one. After all, the two companies might follow different business schemes.

About the FastCGI & eAccelerator support, I think vBulletin forumware do not use CGI scripting so I might not be interested. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I searched about eAccelerator too, it's a script program that's installed both on an admin's side & the server side, but do hosts prevent their costumers from installing it? If yes, why?

I'm near to settle on one choice of these hosts: ASO or Site5. I'll send a message to both clarifying what a special treatment can a vBulletin forum site have on their hosting servers?

Thanks a lot Chris, & I'm looking eager to read your reply.

simsim

[joeychgo]

Lemmie guess - was in Lunarpages? Been there, done that.


ASO is great. Its who I use.

Take a look at: Rate Your Web Host (http://www.vbwebmaster.com/links/browselinks.php?c=2) ---- Other vBulletin owners have lsited various hosts and made commentary about them. Maybe it can help you in your decision.



-

[MRGTB]

FastCGI & eAccelerator

what are the advantages of this

[ChrisLM2001]

Fast load times on a shared server. It's hard getting forums to perform well in a shared environment, but FCGI and eA makes it more bearable.

ADDED: The reason for FCGI is due to ASO has Ruby on Rails. Which in a way is reviving the use of FCGI (and I hope improves it's updates), and I hope because of it, it'll be included back into php again (it was removed due to slow updates, and php had to move on).

Chris

[ChrisLM2001]

I searched for more information after your quoted reply, and I found that ASO is a reseller for "The Planet" host. I think that's the reason for their "higher" prices, though I don't know wether Site5 is a reseller or they have their own datacenters.

You'll need to check out their forum some more, as they're moving more and more to GNAX in Atlanta -- especially the shared servers. ;) I can attest it's in Atlanta, because I'm getting next door pings!

And The Planet has some of the cheapest production servers online. Try finding a Dual Xeon with SCSI disks on a fairly good network for around $250/mon anywhere else (plus basic maintence).

BTW, how can you search for ASO has some servers at TP, and not Site5? ;)


Despite of that, I really beleive that the 4.5GB/100GB balance is much more reasonable than the 12GB/150GB one. After all, the two companies might follow different business schemes.

If so, why aren't you signed up yet?


About the FastCGI & eAccelerator support, I think vBulletin forumware do not use CGI scripting so I might not be interested. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I searched about eAccelerator too, it's a script program that's installed both on an admin's side & the server side, but do hosts prevent their costumers from installing it? If yes, why?

Actually FCGI helps run your php faster, especially those running php as an CGI extension (which IIRC is also safer). Remember, php can run as a library or as an CGI extension, so vBulletin will use it!

Yes, because you wouldn't have root access in shared enviroments. You can only install eAccelerator if you have a VPS and Dedicated plans. Which is why if you find a SHARED host that offers it, it's a great asset!

Chris

[MRGTB]

I suppose my main point is this. Does vBulletin 3.5.1 take advantage of both FastCGI & eAccelerator in using them, making it a better option to be running vBulletin on a server with this installed. Or does it make little difference compared to running vBulletin on a server that doesn't have them installed?

I'm talking shared hosting of course

[ChrisLM2001]

eAccelerator it does, as I tried it with and without and can attest it works better (much faster page generation times) with it installed. It's why I insist on eA to be on a server before getting a plan (or can install it myself).

FastCGI, I can't tell since I haven't installed it yet on the VPS to see the advantages with vBulletin.

But on ASO's shared server the page generation is pretty good. Around 0.07 to 1.00 ms (on a full refresh). Isn't like the speeds of a VPS or Dedicated, but on a shared box those page generation/refresh rates are good. Especially considering how many forums maybe on a server.

So it looks to be an advantage.

Chris