If I bought a license and made a negative comment on the forum would you ban me?

[GreggH]

I own a lifetime IPB license that I paid $149 for, but was recently banned from their forums because I made a negative comment about one of their future products on their feedback forum. My username on the IPB forums was greggish, and my real name is Gregg Heifetz. I am posting this information so that you know that I am an actual customer of IPB. I wasn't given any warning or explanation, just banned minutes after I made the comment. I was only given an explanation after I contacted them asking why they banned a paying customer. They also refused to give me a refund and the President of IPS, Charles Warner, told me, "I highly suggest you quietly fade away." I did not use any profanity and just expressed my opinion that their new product Dynamic will not sell. While, my post may not have been the most tactful, I am stunned that they would completely ban a customer from the support forums just for expressing their opinion on a feedback forum. The President of IPS, Charles Warner, also stated to me that I had "multiple 2.0 series boards running without a license", basically calling me a theif. Not only don't I have any IPB boards running, I don't even have a single website up yet. He later apologized to me on this point, claiming to haven mistaken me for another customer, but I don't believe he was sincere. I am still banned, and they say I will not be unbanned, and they have not apologized for telling a paying customer "I highly suggest you quietly fade away."

This is the post I made that caused them to ban me...

The sooner Matt gets Dynamic out, and nobody buys it, the sooner the focus of the company can go back to improving, bug fixing, and speeding up the forum. Sorry, IPB, that's just the way I see it.

This is the response I received from Charles Warner, the President of IPB after asking why I was banned...

That wasn't negative feedback it was a rude, abusive statement designed to damage the company.

Not to mention you have multiple 2.0 series boards running without a license.

We do not ban people for negative feedback. There are plenty of people who post more than you do but none that go as far as you.

I highly suggest you quietly fade away.

--------------------

Charles Warner
Invision Power Services, Inc. - President
cwarner@invisionpower.com - 1-800-901-5491 (434-352-4334)
Purchase Invision Power Board - IPS Hosting

I have made several hundred posts on their forum and never received any warnings. According to their own policy I was supposed to get a warning before being banned. I just think this is a terrible way to treat a customer for just making a negative comment about the direction they feel the company is going. I am considering buying and using vBulletin to build my first website instead of using my IPB license because I feel I can no longer trust the company and would be at a big disadvantage not being able to at least read the tips and tricks that other customers are posting in the forums. Basically, what I want to know from vBulletin is, if I made a similar comment, that I thought nobody would buy a new CMS product you may be working on would I be banned and treated in a similar manner without any warning? Thanks.

I forgot to mention that in communications with all of the management team at IPS that lasted several days in trying to resolve this matter and get my support forum access restored and come to an amicable solution for both sides I told them...

If I was simply notified that, "You are not allowed to make any negative comments about the company or products on the forums", then I would have refrained from doing so and still would.

Still, they would not apologize for their actions or unban me.

[oldedit]

Looks like they were pretty touchy, but that's not really unusual for some administrators. Others are much looser. I'm just another member and don't speak for vBulletin, but I think I've seen a lot worse here. Just go read the threads about the release of 3.06. They got raked and took it in good spirit and moved on like pros. And they give good, quick support.

[KW802]

.... but I think I've seen a lot worse here. ...Heck, that comment that Greg made above about Dynamic would be considered quite polite & civilized compared compared with some of the comments that people around here make to the Jelsoft staff! :p

[Zachery]

Would we ban you for a rude comment? No.

Would we ban you for using vBulletin in multiple places without licesnes, most likely but thats a situtation by situtaion basises. :)

Unless you were outright rude and abusive and racist, and a few other things, I don't think we'd ban you right away, at least I know I wouldn't :)

[Abusiveelusive]

Think of use of a company forum as a privilege, but not an "absolute privilege".

[Vtec44]

Wow, that comment is very unprofessional, coming from the President of a company.

[Andy Huang]

I don't think Jelsoft will ban you for negative comments, in fact, there have been many of such comments floating about, yet, I don't see too many people with the nasty 'Banned' text under their name. However, if you run multiple vB boards without license, you'll probably get in more trouble than you will with IPB... After all, vB is a much better established company on that end...

[Unmutual]

That's bad. Gregg....I completely lost all confidence and faith in them and moved over here a month ago. And I'd been with them for 3 years mostly as a licenced customer and at one point a Hosting customer as well.
Attitudes have changed a lot there....in fact, it was far more relaxed and co-operative when the product was completely free.
Switch to vB mate....different world.

[TheMusicMan]

I think what you will find around here Greg is that very few people indeed have reason to be nasty, and therefore there really are very few rude or offensive posts on these forums.

I really am not 'sucking up' here, but just have a browse around the fora and see for yourself. Read a few posts and threads and you'll find nothing but a helpful community, very helpful customer focussed staff, and some extremely devoted and willing vB owners willing to share their experience and expertise with all.

Even the wider (non official) vB support community is very supportive.

Go on.... get hold of a copy of vB and you'll soon see.:D

[KimmiKat]

That's the difference between here and the other forum company. Here there's been threads comparing the 2 which would've been tossed on IPB's board. I switched from IPB to vB due to the other company's ever changing policy.

[Floris]

I will not judge or compare the above example and your experience from IPS to Jelsoft's as they are two different companies. And I don't know the full situation so I can't tell if they were right or you were right.

I don't see why we should get all the details from your issues with a company that isn't from us, but ok. Perhaps as example.

Note: We have forum rules and even if you are a paying customer you will still be banned if you continuesly break them. The first time(s) we will point out where to find the forum rules and why we think you've been banned. But if that doesn't help you will get banned.

We allow suggestions and feedback on our products, services, etc. So I don't see why we should not allow someone to speak their mind. And if someone just provides arguments or brings something to the conversation, there is no reason to ban the person; As we value the feedback from our customers as they help improve our products, services, support, sales, etc.

Thank you for your interest in the vBulletin forum software and you might want to know that we also give our customers the impex software for download to convert from third party forum software like IPB to vBulletin. So if you have a forum running already you won't lose any threads/posts/members.

We're looking forward to your purchase.

[Forum-Style]

IPB are new to this company side of things, they do need to learn the correct ways to deal with issues. I do personally understand your views and that many people complain on the way they are treated. This is why people have moved to vB.

vBulletin is a real company with many many years in the software field, they do not judge views of us free speaking people, and as they have commented already they do like to hear real feedback on there software, that is the difference with a well established company.

[feldon23]

Think of use of a company forum as a privilege, but not an "absolute privilege".Tech support is not a "privilege", it's included in the product. Unless the Terms and Conditions say "We may revoke your right to use our tech support forum if we don't like what you have to say".

I would not ban someone for that comment. But let's say for sake of argument someone WERE being truly disruptive. Isn't the policy usually to refund the person's money since they are obviously not happy with the product or company?

I wonder if Jelsoft has a user group for users who are only allowed to post in the Support areas because of repeated negative comments in Suggestions/Feedback.

It just doesn't seem like they tried to reason with you. At least I know that Jelsoft is reasonable.

[Floris]

Even if it is part of the product, if someone breaks the rules continuesly I see that as valid reason to suspend their support forum account. Jelsoft for example has a private support ticket system where customers can get the same support.

[Freddie Bingham]

Feldon we do not have usergroups with lower permissions for users who are opinionated. We allow you to say anything you feel about us as long as you do it in a manner that doesn't disrupt the forum populace. There are many such threads around here! The users weren't banned or given less permissions for putting us to the wall.

[GreggH]

I want to thank everyone for responding to my question and concerns. I definitely plan to buy a vBulletin license soon. Actually, I was just amazed to realize that right now as a non-customer of vBulletin I can browse and read all of the forums, yet at IPB's forums where I am paying customer with a lifetime license I can not have access to even read important anouncements posted in the customer forums. It boggles the mind. As far as all the circumstances that led to IPB banning me, that one post that I made, where I even qualified it at the end with a built in apology and expression that this is just my opinion..."Sorry, IPB, that's just the way I see it." That one comment was the reason for them banning me by their own justification in describing it as..."That wasn't negative feedback it was a rude, abusive statement designed to damage the company." Also, the reason I don't think that the President of IPB was sincere in apologizing for falsely accusing me of running illegal boards was because of this response he made to me, where "point 3" is the issue of him having said to me, "Not to mention you have multiple 2.0 series boards running without a license."

As to point 3 I apologize as it seems I mistook you for another customer.

The other points stand. A lifetime license is not refundable. Technical support is available in the client area. We have never provided support via the forums a fact which is made clear all over the site. We also make the fact clear we reserve the right to restrict access to the forums if we so choose.

Besides, if you truly do not use the license, as you mentioned you would not need support.

--------------------

Charles Warner
Invision Power Services, Inc. - President
cwarner@invisionpower.com - 1-800-901-5491 (434-352-4334)
Purchase Invision Power Board - IPS Hosting

Notice, the last sentence... "Besides, if you truly do not use the license, as you mentioned you would not need support." In the same response as the apology, or more accurately, the excuse for what he said, he goes ahead and basically makes the same accusation again. I guess he figures there's no way to know for sure if I'm using illegal boards (which I am absolutely not, and never would). I can only speculate that he feels he might as well as make the accusation and if I am using illegal boards I'll get frightened and go away. And, on the other hand, if I'm an honest customer not using any illegal boards, no harm done in accusing a paying customer of being a theif.

What makes the whole thing even worse is that I responded to that message, that I appreciated and accepted his apology, even though I knew he wasn't sincere, in hopes of simply resolving the matter...

I appreciate and accept your apology regarding point 3. Thank you. I still feel that this matter can be resolved amicably on both sides. I am still baffled that I was not given any warning before being banned. Can you honestly say that I was a demon customer that was causing havoc on your forums, attacking people, spewing profanity, and attacking your company left and right? I still think you have me confused with another customer if you think this is the case. If I was simply notified that "You are not allowed to make any negative comments about the company or products on the forums" then I would have refrained from doing so and still would. Your company should have given me a warning as reflected in your own policy. As to your comment:

"Besides, if you truly do not use the license, as you mentioned you would not need support."

While its true that I am not using the license yet, I plan on using it soon (hopefuly) to build my first forum and website. I have found that browsing and participating in the forums is an invaluable tool for gaining knowledge and insight about IPB, and the developments of other products like the Blog, and I would not want to undertake building and administering a forum where that forum access was denied to me. If I am not to be allowed access to the forums then I would prefer to receive a refund and move on to another product where I can be fully involved and informed in the community.

Sincerely,
Gregg Heifetz

After that, I received a communication from each member of IPS's Management team telling me that I will not be unbanned, with each message concluded with a sarcastic little smiley

This whole experience has been very upsetting and I can definitely see myself using to much of my energies getting steamed up about this, so now I'm going to try to put this whole bad experience behind me. I appreciate all the input, and hope to soon be a customer. Thanks

[ManagerJosh]

Hey Gregg:

I'm sorry you've had an unpleasant experience with IPB. I hope your vBulletin experience will be much better.

From a consumer standpoint, my best advice is this: If you feel you aren't satisifed with IPB and/or with their services, and wish to get a refund back, go to your credit card company and dispute the charge and get your money back.

[GreggH]

Hey Gregg:

I'm sorry you've had an unpleasant experience with IPB. I hope your vBulletin experience will be much better.

From a consumer standpoint, my best advice is this: If you feel you aren't satisifed with IPB and/or with their services, and wish to get a refund back, go to your credit card company and dispute the charge and get your money back.

I appreciate the advice, but unfortunately I paid for the license with PayPal and PayPal has a policy of only allowing refund submission within 45 days of the purchase. I made the the purchase several months ago, so if IPS does not voluntarily agree to do the right and decent thing and refund my money (which all indications from the entire management team's behavior in this incident, it looks like they wont) it looks like I am stuck with the license.

[Zachery]

I suppose you are not allowed to resell the license and transfer it to someone else?

[GreggH]

I suppose you are not allowed to resell the license and transfer it to someone else?

I'm not sure. I'll have to find out about that.

[TheMusicMan]

You could always offer it as the booby prize in a new 'I'm launching my vB forum' contest...;) hehehehe

[Andy Huang]

You can resell it to someone else; all you have to do is arrange it to be sold, then tell them you're transfering your license to so and so on whatever email address etc. I don't know who'd want to buy a license from such unprofessional group though...

[Ben5150]

The best way to make a better product is to listen to consumer comments even if its a negative comments that how better products are made with out a consumer their be no sale which means no money for their company ..from what I read from your statement and the way their people and product is I wouldnt buy it... There other boards products to look at but I tell you one thing if you look at alot of site's out there you see VB and UBB working on their site I have ubb and VB board's and frankly VB is alittle hard to get it going but once you do it alot better than Ubb and the rest of them out there taken from a newbe as myself thats my 2 cents I hope you enjoy it and the cost is really not that bad either :) You can resell it to someone else; all you have to do is arrange it to be sold, then tell them you're transfering your license to so and so on whatever email address etc. I don't know who'd want to buy a license from such unprofessional group though...

[Bunny]

Isnt that kind of a threat? "I highly suggest you fade away quietly."
Anyways.. IPS is very touchy. They got really defensive on IPB 2 when PF 4 was released with the skinning changes.

[adguru]

Another very good reason why I love my decision to buy two vB licenses over that IPG! (Yeah, that G is NOT a typo!) And oh, I am buying two more!

[Abusiveelusive]

Tech support is not a "privilege", it's included in the product. Unless the Terms and Conditions say "We may revoke your right to use our tech support forum if we don't like what you have to say".

Well, as the quote he posted was from a support ticket, it appears that he still had access to technical support.
The IPS Company Forums are an unofficial/informal place for technical support. Official support is offered via ticket system, live chat, and phone.

[Mephisteus]

Well, as the quote he posted was from a support ticket, it appears that he still had access to technical support.
The IPS Company Forums are an unofficial/informal place for technical support. Official support is offered via ticket system, live chat, and phone.
I think the issue here isn't the support but the moronic reason for the ban and the behaviour of IPB staff...

[Lurk]

I'm pretty sure your vBulletin experience will be much better, as it was with me. IPB, I've tried IPB 1.3 and their PF releases, aswell as their trial (2.0.3). I like to play around with these things. Well, all I can say is, I really like IPB 2's blue look, but I really do not like their forum manager. Their forum manager is probably one of the most annoying things I've experienced, since you have to set each permissions for each usergroup. If it can be automated, I didn't see it clearly and if I had an IPB license, I would definately have already asked if they have a system that automates the forum permissions. I also noticed that images bigger than the postbit can really screw up the looks and the template as seen here (http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showtopic=164684). On the other hand, the features I like more in IPB is the looks of the quote and the way you can 'tick' multiple quotes, looks of the quotes, the 'Show detailed by:' feature in the who's online box (forumhome), 'Today's top 10 posters', and it comes with a set of avatars.

[Unmutual]

You could always offer it as the booby prize in a new 'I'm launching my vB forum' contest...;) hehehehe

:D:D:D

Don't know why I'm laughing cos I'm stuck with one as well! :)

[GreggH]

Since posting about this here I have receieved one last PM from the President of IPS...

As is our policy access to the forums is not part of the paid services.

You may review our terms here:

http://invisionpower.com/?standards

--------------------

Charles Warner
Invision Power Services, Inc. - President
cwarner@invisionpower.com - 1-800-901-5491 (434-352-4334)
Purchase Invision Power Board - IPS Hosting

I responded...

As I already said, your company made representations to me before and after I purchased my license, that as a result of having a license I would be granted access to special customer forums, regardless of what is in the fine print. I honestly don't have the energy or desire to discuss this with your company anymore, given the rude and abusive way the management of your company (Charles in particular) have treated me and spoken to me... Telling me in my first question, as to why I was banned... "I highly suggest you quietly fade away." Also, acussing me of being a theif and running multiple illegal boards. And purposely mischaracterizing my feedback post as something that it was not. As well as concluding each message to me telling me that I will not be unbanned with a little smiley...nice sarcastic touch in dealing with an upset customer. As to my request for a refund, I've contacted PayPal and was advised that since its past 45 days since I made the purchase there is nothing they can do, so if you decide not to refund the money and deny me services you represented I would receive in purchasing a license, I realize there is really nothing I can do about it. By the way, there are announcements and important information posted in the customer forums which now I can not even read, let alone post to. For Instance...

http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showtopic=163574

I'm getting sick just talking about all this again. I would just rather not discuss it anymore.

Sincerely,
Gregg Heifetz

At least they respected my wishes not to discuss it anymore, since its been 2 days since I have heard from anyone at IPS. Silly me, I still thought there was a slight chance they would apologize for the way they treated me, and what they said to me. I think (or at least I hope) they realize that they all have behaved so badly and wrongly, that there is just no way they could apologize for what they have done. I think its better this way. Even if every member of IPS' management apologized, I could not in all honesty accept it now. They have done too much, and said too many abusive and nasty things to me, for me to be able to accept any apology now.

[Unmutual]

Maybe I'm being cynical here, but I think they were a damn sight more helpful and courteous in the 2 years they used us as unofficial Beta testers! :cool:

[Neocorteqz]

I'd try and sell the license off. I've worked in Customer Service for many years, and If I ever treated a customer like that, I'd be out on my ass without a job.

Always treat a customer (especially a paying customer) as you'd like to be treated.

As everyone else has said, I think you will be very satisfied with a vBull license. It's got a hell of a community (in vBorg,vBnl,vBtemplates,vB.com) and Professional Staff that's willing to listen to it's member base.

Hope you can somehow find a solution to this license you have no use for.

[GreggH]

Thanks for the comment Neocorteqz. It would be nice if every company acted as you suggested they should... "Always treat a customer (especially a paying customer) as you'd like to be treated."

But its unbelievably worse (I think most people wouldn't believe that any company would treat any customer this way if I didn't save the actual communications), when its the President of the company that steps in to personally abuse the customer. If it was just a customer service rep that had a bad day and was taking it out on the customer it could at least be understandable, and there would be somewhere higher up, someone reasonable, I could talk to and resolve the issue. But unfortunately, with IPS, the most unreasonable people are the management. The staff members I have actually found to be somewhat reasonable. For instance... when I was first banned I sent a PM to a staff member, Rikki asking why I was banned for just making a negative comment and his response seemed to indicate that he didn't think that was the reason I was banned and he didn't know the actual reason and I contact the management...

I'm not sure why you were banned, but I removed your recent topic because in any case, it is not up for discussion in public.

Your best bet is contacting Charles, Lindy or Matt for an explanation.

Rikki



--------------------

Rikki Tissier - Forum Administrator

While Rikki wouldn't let me post about the matter in the forum, and deleted my post when I attempted to post it in the General Chat forum, at least he was civil to me in the PM. The abusive responses didn't begin until Charles, the President of IPS, started to respond to me.

[GreggH]

I just noticed something very disturbing about the license agreement for IPB...

http://www.invisionboard.com/?license

TERMINATION
This Agreement will terminate automatically upon failure to comply with the limitations described herein or on written notice from an authorized representative of IPS. On termination, you must destroy all copies of the Software within 48 hours. Termination of the license due to noncompliance will not result in any refunds of license fees.

The underlined part seems to allow IPS to terminate any license at anytime for no reason. And while they state that no refund will be given for termination as a result of "noncompliance", they do not specifically state that a refund will be given if they simply decide to give written notice of termination without a noncompliance reason.

In contrast, the vBulletin license is very clear on this point...

http://www.vbulletin.com/order/license_agreement.php

If any of the terms of this Agreement are violated, Jelsoft reserves the right to revoke the license at any time.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, and I may be reading it wrong, since I'm not a lawyer... IPS can terminate any customer's license without any reason simply by giving written notification of termination and they are not required to refund the customer's money. Can someone help me out here? I must be reading this wrong!

[ManagerJosh]

In MY opinion, and lemme restate this to make it clear, MY opinion, your interpretation is correct.

[s1l3ncer]

thats some crazy bull crap. man thank good I had to sacrifce 3 months payment for my gym membership to buy vbulletin and not IP. I was seriously thinkin of buy Ip couse it was cheaper but then I saw vbulletin was a little more but better. license terms.

BTW would Jelsoft Enterprises ban me if I drank there beer and ate their chips.

[Neocorteqz]

for the perpetual License.


This will give you a perpetual license to use Invision Power Board for one installation on all current and future versions. Selecting this option will also give you access to upgrades to the software for all future versions and one year of support is included.


Only a year of Support??

Last I checked I spent 160 on vBull and get support for Life. You just get a year worth of Download access only. Then you have to renew, but I was kindly corrected that you will get support even if you do not Renew access. so you need only renew if you choose to. :)



BTW would Jelsoft Enterprises ban me if I drank there beer and ate their chips.

I'm sure they would just make you replace what you ate. :p

[groberthall]

It would seem to me that there are certain violations, stated or otherwise, that any company would both ban you, and revoke your licence, for. Most companies should expect some degree of customer dissatisfaction no matter how good there product and I am sure they have built in processes to deal with it but occasionally customer abuse reaches a point where all sense of reasonableness goes out of the window and banning / revoking of licence is the only means left to them to maintain both their business and human rights.

I would imagine that drinking their beer and eating their chips would come under this category :)

[Floris]

BTW would Jelsoft Enterprises ban me if I drank there beer and ate their chips.

If you come in my house and start drinking and eating my staff I won't ban you from the forum, but I will give you a restraining order for stalking me. XD

[ManagerJosh]

It would seem to me that there are certain violations, stated or otherwise, that any company would both ban you, and revoke your licence, for. Most companies should expect some degree of customer dissatisfaction no matter how good there product and I am sure they have built in processes to deal with it but occasionally customer abuse reaches a point where all sense of reasonableness goes out of the window and banning / revoking of licence is the only means left to them to maintain both their business and human rights.

I would imagine that drinking their beer and eating their chips would come under this category :)
Certain violations do deserve banning however in such instance where a customer was offering feedback towards a product (despite it being negative) does not merit the nonchalant attitude and banning. It should be embraced rather than swept under the carpet.

There are plenty of loyal customers, but when you treat them in such a fashion, they are going to start moving to competiting products or competiting vendors in search of better customer service.

A product will only last so long, but customer loyalty will last a lifetime.

[KimmiKat]

If someone ate the "staff," there would be no one here to help! :D Otherwise I would ask for beer money!

If you come in my house and start drinking and eating my staff I won't ban you from the forum, but I will give you a restraining order for stalking me. XD

[Rob-Morgan]

I got banned from IBP forums a long time ago. You cannot say anything negative. I hate Charles, Matt and all of the others. Not to mention the terrible 'Rikki'.

Very glad I got away and came over here. Very good to see IPB doing badly and getting worse!

Stay at Jelsoft and forget about the dying IPB!!!!!!!!!!

[wbear]

If you come in my house and start drinking and eating my staff I won't ban you from the forum, but I will give you a restraining order for stalking me.If he ate the staff, who would do all the work? ;)

In all honesty, I hold an IPB license, and was kind of on the fence about them altogether. This action of thiers leaves me a bit cold, and I may just sell and grab another VB...(#3 and counting).

[Webnower]

This is one of the reasons I decided to drop the dough and give vB a spin. I remember asking on their forums once something about their liscence and my thread was deleted because it "wasn't a valid question". I can't remember what I asked, but I'm no computer moron so it couldn't have been that bad.

[fire27]

i'd just suggest everyone who is displeased file a report at bbbonline (better business bureau)

[GreggH]

i'd just suggest everyone who is displeased file a report at bbbonline (better business bureau)

Thats an excellent idea. I just checked www.bbb.org and Invision Power Services is listed as a BBB member...

http://www.richmond.bbb.org/commonreport.html?compid=21013534

Their record as of today is...

Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record with the Bureau. The Bureau has processed no customer complaints on this company in its three-year reporting period.

That is about to change though. I am writing up and filing a complaint tonight. I hope others that have also had bad customer experiences join me in filing a complaint. I don't know if it will make any difference, but its better to do something than nothing, and just let them get away with treating customers this way.

[KimmiKat]

You might want to set up a special page for others to join in as this post could get binned as Jelsoft may not want to be mixed up in this matter.

Thats an excellent idea. ...[snipped]...

[GreggH]

You might want to set up a special page for others to join in as this post could get binned as Jelsoft may not want to be mixed up in this matter.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to set up a website now. I don't know why this post would get binned. I don't think there is anything extroadinary about pointing out that a company is a BBB member. But I would respect any decision Jelsoft made in that regard since this really isn't their problem and they are free to allow posters to give feedback on another company or not at their discretion. I think all the commentary has been quite reasonable though.

[Andy Huang]

Kind of hard to get a post binned here on jelsoft's forums, but it might get closed later... In all cases, I don't think there's a need to bring this up to BBB, after all word of mouth is much more powerful than what BBB can do. As long as you tell your friends to tell their friends to pass the words on, pretty soon, everyone will know this side of IPB. In all cases, this is vB's presales forum, I do honestly believe that this thread is alowly out living its purpose... Though, this does not goes to say that you or any other participants did anything wrong in the thread, but it simply goes to say that this thread doesn't seem to belong in jelsoft's presales forum anymore.

Cheers.

[KimmiKat]

You're right about word of mouth. When someone has me set up a site and want to purchase an mboard for the site, I suggest vb and explain the 2 license options there is. If they want a free one, I tell them phpBB. I stay clear of the other company.

Part of the thread might be better off in the Chit Chat section.

Kind of hard to get a post binned here on jelsoft's forums, but it might get closed later... In all cases, I don't think there's a need to bring this up to BBB, after all word of mouth is much more powerful than what BBB can do. As long as you tell your friends to tell their friends to pass the words on, pretty soon, everyone will know this side of IPB. In all cases, this is vB's presales forum, I do honestly believe that this thread is alowly out living its purpose... Though, this does not goes to say that you or any other participants did anything wrong in the thread, but it simply goes to say that this thread doesn't seem to belong in jelsoft's presales forum anymore.

Cheers.

[GreggH]

I just want to give everyone who participated in this thread or who were following it an update. IPS just sent me a full refund of $149.

[Mr_Bob]

I just want to give everyone who participated in this thread or who were following it an update. IPS just sent me a full refund of $149.
Wow that's great :). I think one of their managers may have read your post about the BBU ;). Anyway, it's very good that you got your money back, it's the least they could do for what they put you through.

[Cloud Strife]

I just want to give everyone who participated in this thread or who were following it an update. IPS just sent me a full refund of $149.

lol. Thats awfully nice of them isn't it *cough* Alterior motive *cough*
I still think you should report them to "better business bureau"

[GreggH]

Wow that's great :). I think one of their managers may have read your post about the BBU ;). Anyway, it's very good that you got your money back, it's the least they could do for what they put you through.

Actually, I believe they were made aware of the thread at WebHostingTalk.com, that finally persuaded them to refund my money...

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=389426

It had 174 replies and over 4,000 views before getting locked. They didn't give a reason for locking it though.

[GreggH]

lol. Thats awfully nice of them isn't it *cough* Alterior motive *cough*
I still think you should report them to "better business bureau"

There's no point in filing a complaint now, since they refunded my money.

[Link00seven]

Wow, I don't even have a license with vBulletin yet and i've recieved better support and help from them regarding the many question's I've had.

I would certainly agree that IPB isn't an honorable company. I'm sorry you had to deal with that sort of experience.

[simsgenius]

IPB are good for free hosted boards, poor for customer support.

[Zenith]

Reminds me of 5 years ago when InfoPop got all uppity on their UBB forums and made vBulletin a banned word. One doesn't hear much about UBB anymore. :rolleyes:

Negative feedback should be responded to with "we're better because of...", and "we'll be improving that by doing...", and "your feedback is appreciated as it helps to build a better product and market share...". Not with "we don't want to hear that..." and "we don't want other people to know that...". This is one area where vBulletin excels and is a contributing factor in their success, no doubt about it.

I, and I'll wager most people, won't deal with a company that trys to perpetuate ignorance of other's products existence or superiority. I've been a vBulletin user for 5 years or so after dumping UBB for exactly this reason.

[poolking]

In my opinion IPB have always been very touchy and don't seem to take criticism very well at all, I have seen whole threads and posts removed because people have had something detrimental to say about their product.

They don't even like any other bulletin board software being mentioned on their forums.

[GreggH]

Well, at least it makes me feel good to know that customers who have been treated badly have an easy and very valuable tool for persuading a company to do the right thing (online message boards). Before I received the refund, the last communication I had with IPS was about 3 weeks ago, March 11th. The last time I specifically insisted on a refund was March 7th. I am pretty sure that had it not been for the posts I made sharing this experience with others here and other communities like WebHostingTalk.com and Invisionize.com IPS would not have refunded my money. Actually, the refund was sent to me just hours after the last post on WebHostingTalk.com was made. I know that IPS was keenly aware of that very long thread, since many people said that they contacted IPS referencing it, and asking why they treated me like that. You would think that a company that has bulletin board software as their main product, would understand from the outset, that when you treat a customer badly, they have the ability to tell thousands of people about that experience. :confused: I want to thank everybody for their support and comments. You are very much part of the reason why I finally got my refund. :)

[adguru]

Well, at least it makes me feel good to know that customers who have been treated badly have an easy and very valuable tool for persuading a company to do the right thing (online message boards). Before I received the refund, the last communication I had with IPS was about 3 weeks ago, March 11th. The last time I specifically insisted on a refund was March 7th. I am pretty sure that had it not been for the posts I made sharing this experience with others here and other communities like WebHostingTalk.com and Invisionize.com IPS would not have refunded my money. Actually, the refund was sent to me just hours after the last post on WebHostingTalk.com was made. I know that IPS was keenly aware of that very long thread, since many people said that they contacted IPS referencing it, and asking why they treated me like that. You would think that a company that has bulletin board software as their main product, would understand from the outset, that when you treat a customer badly, they have the ability to tell thousands of people about that experience. :confused: I want to thank everybody for their support and comments. You are very much part of the reason why I finally got my refund. :)
You were in luck mate! :) And you have've made the right decision by switching to vBulletin!

[Moparx]

congrads on getting your money finally, greg

[SamuelMBS]

They chose to do at least part of a right thing =) I'm glad you received a refund Greg.

[simsgenius]

In my opinion IPB have always been very touchy and don't seem to take criticism very well at all, I have seen whole threads and posts removed because people have had something detrimental to say about their product.

They don't even like any other bulletin board software being mentioned on their forums.

I agree. :mad:

We can discuss other software here and jelsoft dont complain!

[KimmiKat]

That's true, although you can only go so far...

Glad he got his refund. Add $11 and grab a license from here! :D

I agree. :mad:

We can discuss other software here and jelsoft dont complain!

[GreggH]

I don't know if this is really that important but I thought I would mention it anyway. I mentioned earlier that I posted about this on Invisionize.com, which is supposed to be an independent resource site for IPB, and they say that they are independent too. The thread I posted there had over 100 replies and about 2,000 views, with most posters suppoting me, and many even sharing similar experiences. After I received the refund, somebody suggested that now, since the matter has been resolved, that the thread should probably be locked and I said that would be fine with me, and a mod agreed and locked it. That was yesterday. Today I went back to Invisionize and found that the thread has ben deleted...

http://forums.invisionize.com/index.php?showtopic=71163&st=90

The thread is still coming up in the search engine though, but now shows 0 replies and 0 views and is a dead link as well...

http://forums.invisionize.com/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=48f8811237d4b009e0060ce8b19642a7&search_in=posts&result_type=topics&highlite=behave+decently%3F

It makes me wonder if even though they claim to be indepent of IPS, whether they were pressured in some way by IPS to remove it.

Anyway, I plan to be buying a vBulletin license soon to start my first site, fotoBlog.net. I will also be buying vBaGallery and using vBadvanced for it. I had a counter on the domain a while back and it was getting 100-200 uniques/day... probably alot of people trying to go to fotolog.net. Thanks again for all the support for someone that isn't even a customer YET. :)

[Unmutual]

It's a sad state of affairs really. The bad publicity that IPB have got about this is going to cost them a lot more than just the refund in the long term.

Can't say I'm surprised at their attitude....which is very different nowadays from what it was 3 years ago.

[KimmiKat]

Although this thread has run it's course since the issue got resolved, I thought I add my 85 cents below...

I believe they were asked by IPS to remove it. One of the mboards (no longer up) I was a mod at had a anti-IPS thread and was asked to remove it or face legal issues. It's too bad. They have a lot of damage control to do.

Anyway that's cool you got your $$ back and planning to get vB. It's worth the investment!

I don't know if this is really that important but I thought I would mention it anyway. I mentioned earlier that I posted about this on Invisionize.com, which is supposed to be an independent resource site for IPB, and they say that they are independent too. The thread I posted there had over 100 replies and about 2,000 views, with most posters suppoting me, and many even sharing similar experiences.

(snipped)

It makes me wonder if even though they claim to be indepent of IPS, whether they were pressured in some way by IPS to remove it.