Dedicated vs. Co-lo?

[PaulRoberts]

I'm just curious from a cost standpoint, why don't more people go with a co-location rather then a dedicated server? I was looking at www.venturesonline.com and their pricing is good, but I will NEVER pay ~$1000/month for any type of dedicated server (unless it has Oracle).

My point is, I just dropped about $1500 into a new server (rackmountable) and I am throwing in 2 PIII 1000mhz CPUs and 1G of RAM and a 18g Quantum SCSI 10k drive. Most server co-location places are about $300-500 (depending on the service). I'm saving roughly $400-500 a month by doing a co-lo...

Any comments, ideas?

[eva2000]

Originally posted by PaulRoberts
I'm just curious from a cost standpoint, why don't more people go with a co-location rather then a dedicated server? I was looking at www.venturesonline.com and their pricing is good, but I will NEVER pay ~$1000/month for any type of dedicated server (unless it has Oracle).

My point is, I just dropped about $1500 into a new server (rackmountable) and I am throwing in 2 PIII 1000mhz CPUs and 1G of RAM and a 18g Quantum SCSI 10k drive. Most server co-location places are about $300-500 (depending on the service). I'm saving roughly $400-500 a month by doing a co-lo...

Any comments, ideas? short answer, most people don't have the funds for an upfront purchase of a server... i.e i count on monthly advertising income to pay my hosting fees around US$500 - 622/month

that's cheap for a server did you build it yourself ? i have looked around

my web host uses www.racksaver.com servers and i have checked out www.compunite.com, www.pingolinux.com, www.valinux.com, www.penguincomputing.com

[eva2000]

as to how much you think you're saving VO bandwidth costs US$3/gb per month

take their plan 4 server at US$600/month with 150gb/month for comparison with 150 gb colocated would cost US$450/month excluding rack space/ips

[PaulRoberts]

I'm all about saving some cash...so here is what I did...

EBAY EBAY EBAY :)

1. Picked up a slightly used 2x2 valinux server for $750 (no raid card)
2. Bought parts off pricewatch.com - spent $750

Now, for my bandwidth...I don't have a cap or anything, but my host version12.net does something like 75g free. I am currently doing about 1.5-2G a day...so I am under their cap just by a little bit.

[eva2000]

Originally posted by PaulRoberts
I'm all about saving some cash...so here is what I did...

EBAY EBAY EBAY :)

1. Picked up a slightly used 2x2 valinux server for $750 (no raid card)
2. Bought parts off pricewatch.com - spent $750

Now, for my bandwidth...I don't have a cap or anything, but my host version12.net does something like 75g free. I am currently doing about 1.5-2G a day...so I am under their cap just by a little bit. i see.. i wish i knew how to build servers/pcs and had the money... i can't if my life depended on it :(

[PaulRoberts]

Did you take a look at Version12? Everyone seems to think I'm spamming but I'm just a happy customer. I read your post about getting 2 servers, for the price at venturesonline you could get like 4 from version12 :).

-paul

[MattLight]

Paul,

One advantage that dedicated servers have is the fact that you (the customer) are not responsible for the hardware. If a co-located server has a meltdown, you're pretty much SOL. It's your machine, and your problem. If you want to have it repaired, you will probably be paying your provider to do so. If you want to have it replaced... you need to arrange for a new server to be delivered and setup

With dedicated servers, the host is responsible for the hardware maintenance. Many people feel more comfortable with this, as they don't want to have to worry about replacing/repairing a server that's located across the country. Your dedicated server provider should handle this aspect for you.

In addition, co-location doesn't usually come with any system administration assistance. Of course, if you are proficient with the server OS, then this doesn't really make much of a difference to you. However, many people with dedicated servers have little or no experience with the server platform that their dedicated system is using, and therefore will require quite a bit of assistance.

Hope that answers a few questions.

BTW... kudos to you on your choice of a VA Linux system! Let's hope that you won't have to deal with any of the hardware issues that I've just mentioned. *grin*

Best Regards,
Matt Lightner
mlightner@site5.com

[JimF]

Matt,

Does site5 offer ds's? It's been a while since I've been to your site.

-jim

[MattLight]

Jim,

We currently offer both dedicated servers and co-location, as well as shared hosting.

We're beginning to focus more and more on our dedicated services, as the demand is growing rapidly with the development of newer and bigger applications (such as vBulletin).

We recently moved all of our systems off the VDI network (I'm sure you've noticed the problems they've been having lately). All of our systems are now located at the NAC data center (www.nac.net). We have been more than pleased with the connectivity there. In fact, there hasn't been a single issue since we moved there about three weeks ago. I'm not sure... but I'm guessing it probably has something to do with their 15 DS3's. :D

One item of note: Although we are no longer located in the VDI data center, we will still be offering Cpanel/WHM at no additional charge (contrary to popular belief ;)).

If anyone has a question regarding our services, I would be more than happy to help. My direct email address is mlightner@site5.com.

Best Regards,
Matt Lightner
mlightner@site5.com

[doron]

http://www.site5.com/services/dedicated/

[JimF]

There was no pricing info or anything...

Site5's servers are at NAC?? In Denville? I didn't know good ole' Jersey was such a hosting Mecca! :)

-jim

[eva2000]

Originally posted by JimF
There was no pricing info or anything...

Site5's servers are at NAC?? In Denville? I didn't know good ole' Jersey was such a hosting Mecca! :)

-jim yeah you should try hosting in Australia, bandwidth is only charged at an equivalent US$128 /GB per month :eek:

hey Matt how ya doin :)

[eva2000]

oh yeah - http://www.site5.com/services/dedicated/packages.html

[MattLight]

Originally posted by JimF
There was no pricing info or anything...
-jim
http://www.site5.com/services/dedicated/packages.html

(People often overlook the multiple link bars at the top... There is a second row of links underneath the orange row which apply specifically to the dedicated server section.) *grin*

Doing great Eva. Long time no chat! Feel free to drop me a line at 78975142 (that's an ICQ UIN if you're wondering. :D)

Best Regards,
Matt Lightner
mlightner@site5.com

[Woody]

If you are going co-located and are thinking about ventures online, why not go straight through vdi.net. That is who ventures online uses, plus it is cheaper there.

[eva2000]

Originally posted by Woody
If you are going co-located and are thinking about ventures online, why not go straight through vdi.net. That is who ventures online uses, plus it is cheaper there. one reason is www.vdi.net ain't taking on new clients as yet

[wjensen]

The VDI issues will get fixed shortly, you can take that to the bank.

Over the last few years, VDI `s enviroment is what makes companies grow. NAC is geared to hosting dedicated servers and providing that service.

VDI is geared to Hosting hosting companies, which is a seperate market. There are issues that make the clients grow, :D

We also refer alot of clients to our cleints, so they can build up a base to get special pricing and be able to afford dedicated servers themselves.

[MattLight]

Greetings,

I would like to take a moment to respond to wjensen's post regarding NAC vs VDI. I'd like to thank you in advance for listening to me rant. :D


Originally posted by wjensen
The VDI issues will get fixed shortly, you can take that to the bank.

That's really terrific to hear. It's nice to see that you recognize the issues and are doing something about it. I'm sure everyone here will be extremely grateful when VDI's service level returns to what it was (or even better than it was). :)


Over the last few years, VDI `s enviroment is what makes companies grow. NAC is geared to hosting dedicated servers and providing that service.

I would have to disagree with you on this point. NAC is geared toward providing whatever service their customers decide to provide to the general public. Network Access (NAC) has chosen to market themselves as an ISP rather than a "host for hosting companies" as VDI has done. However, that doesn't mean that all companies who are located inside NAC's data center have chosen the same route. I know for a fact that Site5 (the company I work for) and Pegasus (www.pwebtech.com - one of NAC's largest co-location customers) have chosen to specialize in providing services to web hosting companies. For you to characterize an entire data center as being geared toward a certain market niche would be quite pretentious in my opinion. I would be interested to know what exactly VDI offers that the companies located at NAC are unable to. I guess my point is that just because VDI has chosen to make hosting companies their primary target market, doesn't mean that other providers in other data centers can't do the same.

VDI is geared to Hosting hosting companies, which is a seperate market.
That may be true, however that doesn't mean that VDI is necessarily the best place for a new hosting company to start out. The mere fact that you choose to target a specific market niche does not automatically make you a quality service provider - even within your specialized ambit.

There are issues that make the clients grow, :D
I'm not sure I understand. How exactly does VDI "make" clients grow? I would argue that what makes a hosting company grow is a dedicated staff who is genuinely interested in the company's success. If you look at all of the major hosting providers on the Internet today, you will see that there are quite a few different styles available - but how many of them were actually concenved at the VDI NOC? My point is that successful hosting companies are not born out of "host incubators", bur rather from the hard work and determination of the people who run them. This is actually true of most businesses - both Internet based as well as brick and mortar.

We also refer alot of clients to our cleints, so they can build up a base to get special pricing and be able to afford dedicated servers themselves.
In my opinion, the best way to ensure your client's growth isn't to send them new business (although it is certainly a valiant effort) but rather to provide them with reliable service, and solid support that they can depend on. Referring clients to them is only a temporary answer. If your clients are unable to provide these people with the level of service that they deserve, they will not stick around long.

I certainly won't deny that VDI is a great place for new web hosting companies to start out. In fact, Site5 Was located at the VDI NOC until just recently. However, for you to claim that one of your competitor NOC's is not really a competitor simply because they don't have the same target market that you do is a bit unfair.

NAC gets paid to provide the bandwidth - and they do a darn good job of it. It's the companies located there who really make the magic. ;)

Just my $0.02...

Best Regards,
Matt Lightner
mlightner@site5.com

[jayglate]

We have been at nac for over 1 year now, and where NAC doesn't provide services, we do. Pegasus, NAC doesn't provide dedicated servers, or do a lot of one or two colos, they don't bill by the gb and such. Where we do.

We pick up where NAC leaves off, providing support to the hosting community based off of NAC unsurpassable strength and network stability. Since Pegasus/NAC actively started marketing to hosting companies we have seen a tremdous response from all types of customers, such as site5(being one of the more notable) having multiple servers to people looking for top notch colo or dedicated servers but don't need a full rack and 1 meg of bandwidth.

Site5 is a good example of a company at Pegasus/NAC who is offering a wide range of enterprise hosting services - like others are doing inside VDI.

Therefore to say that we are not geared towards isn't accurate.

Pegasus/NAC have geared up to compete in this market with pricing, service, 24/7 live support to back it up.


just my 2 cents

[Paul L.]

Originally posted by Woody
If you are going co-located and are thinking about ventures online, why not go straight through vdi.net. That is who ventures online uses, plus it is cheaper there.

last time I looked they are quite a bit more than us on prices.

We use VDI but we own all our equipment and are the largest host colocated in VDI.

Why are we less than going direct to VDI?
We buy in bulk, we dont just buy room for a server or 2 as needed, we buy the whole rack or racks in our case, we also dont buy bandwidth by the gig we buy by the megabit... this why our prices are cheaper.

As far as NAC and VDI well we looked at both and yes VDI has had some problems but they are being worked on and the problems they are having could happen to any host.

But we picked VDI for one thing the speeds are way faster then NAC.net not just for me but I had people check from all over and they all say VDI is quite a bit faster.


Note: I am not saying NAC is bad or VDI is the best I am just saying why we picked VDI.

[jayglate]

VDI is NOT faster than VDI, and wasn't CPanel the main purpose of coloing there? Because in NAC in the past you couldn't have cpanel. not to metion a previous relationship with VDI. Ask clients who moved from VDI to nac, in some tests it showed 4 times faster than vdi.

[Paul L.]

VDI is NOT faster than VDI???? you really lost me on that one not sure how it could be?

Cpanel was not the reason we went to VDI we can have cpanel at any Noc we wish to go to so that is not even a reason to go to VDI.

[eva2000]

hey Paul **waves**

[Paul L.]

Howdy George :) Posts: 3267 wow you live here

[jayglate]

Sorry, I was on laptop and driving down from canada. But, true you could have Cpanel at any datacetner but, not at the price of $25 a month.

[eva2000]

Originally posted by Paul L.
Howdy George :) Posts: 3267 wow you live here yup beside my own forum and a few others, this is the place i hang out on :D

[Nicholas Brown]

Geesh - if this page didnt have a vBulletin logo at the top - I could have sworn I was at WHT :D

[eva2000]

Originally posted by Nicholas Brown
Geesh - if this page didnt have a vBulletin logo at the top - I could have sworn I was at WHT :D like bringing up old posts huh ?